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A Maximum Income

FREEDO
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8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.
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fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/26/2011 10:22:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm assuming you're talking about sole proprietorships not corporations here for simplicity, and that by income you mean the proprietorship's profits.

So-- the proprietor works just hard enough to make the maximum annual profit (I assume that's what you meant by income) and then stops expanding the business. GG, economy suck.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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8/27/2011 1:16:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 10:22:52 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I'm assuming you're talking about sole proprietorships not corporations here for simplicity, and that by income you mean the proprietorship's profits.

Corporations shouldn't even exist.

So-- the proprietor works just hard enough to make the maximum annual profit (I assume that's what you meant by income) and then stops expanding the business.

In other words, smaller businesses are actually given a chance?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.

They don't have any desired trait other than deciding what the business does.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/27/2011 1:29:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.

CEOs are in charge of managing billions in capital and thousands of employees, so yes. Same with superstars. The public demands certain musicians, and entertainers.

They don't have any desired trait other than deciding what the business does.

And how is that undesirable? Businesses produce what consumers demand.
And
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/27/2011 2:28:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 1:16:17 AM, FREEDO wrote:
In other words, smaller businesses are actually given a chance?

In other words the pie is shrunk. Depending what the maximum income is, probably drastically. Business isn't a zero sum game.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/27/2011 2:31:43 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.
When corporations are banned (which will do even more damage to the pie than a maximum income-- btw, are you including worker-owned corporations, partnerships, etc?), yes, the success of a sole proprietorship is always dependent heavily on the actions of a single individual (Corporations only are some of the time and to a lesser extent ^_^). To do the things a corporation does it has to be an extraordinary indvidual.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
seraine
Posts: 734
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8/27/2011 8:54:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.

The last two just make them more money. More money= more incentive.
FREEDO
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8/27/2011 5:21:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 2:31:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.
When corporations are banned (which will do even more damage to the pie than a maximum income-- btw, are you including worker-owned corporations, partnerships, etc?), yes, the success of a sole proprietorship is always dependent heavily on the actions of a single individual (Corporations only are some of the time and to a lesser extent ^_^). To do the things a corporation does it has to be an extraordinary indvidual.

By corporation I mean a business that is granted special rights by the government.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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8/27/2011 5:21:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 8:54:08 AM, seraine wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.

The last two just make them more money. More money= more incentive.

...They can't...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/27/2011 5:25:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:21:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/27/2011 2:31:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.
When corporations are banned (which will do even more damage to the pie than a maximum income-- btw, are you including worker-owned corporations, partnerships, etc?), yes, the success of a sole proprietorship is always dependent heavily on the actions of a single individual (Corporations only are some of the time and to a lesser extent ^_^). To do the things a corporation does it has to be an extraordinary indvidual.

By corporation I mean a business that is granted special rights by the government.

Such as?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Logic_on_rails
Posts: 2,445
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8/27/2011 5:29:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This thread raises quite an interesting question. Obviously, theoretically, there should be no maximum income. However, the question is in practice if something like a $100 million dollar limit on x type of companies directors salaries (hypothetical, assume they are earning 110 million dollars) whether that 10 million dollar reduction makes a difference. Ie. Is there a point at which additional income carries no extra incentive to work harder? At the very least, one would assume diminishing returns past a certain point.

Of course, I'll probably be shot down after this post, but it's about highlighting things like psychology and how they affect people in addition to economics.
"Tis not in mortals to command success
But we"ll do more, Sempronius, we"ll deserve it
FREEDO
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8/27/2011 5:33:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:25:23 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:21:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/27/2011 2:31:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.
When corporations are banned (which will do even more damage to the pie than a maximum income-- btw, are you including worker-owned corporations, partnerships, etc?), yes, the success of a sole proprietorship is always dependent heavily on the actions of a single individual (Corporations only are some of the time and to a lesser extent ^_^). To do the things a corporation does it has to be an extraordinary indvidual.

By corporation I mean a business that is granted special rights by the government.

Such as?

That's the definition of a corporation. McDonald's, Walmart, take your pick.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/27/2011 5:39:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
A maximum income would inhibit many producers of services from meeting demand efficiently. If I could design a really complex video game that many people wanted would buy, or a simpler video game that I personally preferred and would be easier to make, a maximum income would drive me to create the latter when I would prefer to make the former and get more money.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/27/2011 6:01:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 5:33:06 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:25:23 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 5:21:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/27/2011 2:31:43 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 8/27/2011 1:18:15 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/26/2011 10:04:40 PM, darkkermit wrote:
maximum income means that there is a shortage of services needed by individuals that possess desired traits.

Because the success of business really upon a single individual. Of course.
When corporations are banned (which will do even more damage to the pie than a maximum income-- btw, are you including worker-owned corporations, partnerships, etc?), yes, the success of a sole proprietorship is always dependent heavily on the actions of a single individual (Corporations only are some of the time and to a lesser extent ^_^). To do the things a corporation does it has to be an extraordinary indvidual.

By corporation I mean a business that is granted special rights by the government.

Such as?

That's the definition of a corporation. McDonald's, Walmart, take your pick.

The definition of corporation is a business in which ownership and profits are split between multiple parties by a clearly defined contract (the charter).
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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8/28/2011 2:24:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/27/2011 6:01:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
The definition of corporation is a business in which ownership and profits are split between multiple parties by a clearly defined contract (the charter).

"A corporation is a legal entity that is created under the laws of a state designed to establish the entity as a separate legal entity having its own privileges and liabilities distinct from those of its members."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

"an association of individuals, created by law or under authority of law, having a continuous existence independent of the existences of its members, and powers and liabilities distinct from those of its members."
http://dictionary.reference.com...

"A body that is granted a charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights, privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members."
http://education.yahoo.com...

"The most common form of business organization, and one which is chartered by a state and given many legal rights as an entity separate from its owners. This form of business is characterized by the limited liability of its owners, the issuance of shares of easily transferable stock, and existence as a going concern. The process of becoming a corporation, call incorporation, gives the company separate legal standing from its owners and protects those owners from being personally liable in the event that the company is sued (a condition known as limited liability). Incorporation also provides companies with a more flexible way to manage their ownership structure. In addition, there are different tax implications for corporations, although these can be both advantageous and disadvantageous. In these respects, corporations differ from sole proprietorships and limited partnerships."
http://www.investorwords.com...

"A corporation (usually known in the United Kingdom and Ireland as a company) is a legal entity (distinct from a natural person) that often has similar rights in law to those of a natural person. Civil law systems may refer to corporations as "moral persons;" they may also go by the name "AS" (anonymous society) or something similar, depending on language."
http://www.wordiq.com...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/28/2011 2:27:11 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.

Ahh, socialism at its finest! Never.....
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/28/2011 2:35:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/28/2011 2:27:11 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.


Ahh, socialism at its finest! Never.....

Actually, that has nothing to do with Socialism. It is a regulation on Capitalism, making it Progressivism.

What does have something to do with Socialism is public school, which I recall you being a fan of.

You might also be a fan of our Socialist....
law enforcement
fire department
road system
libraries

And you may be one of those crazy people who want to socialize health care.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/28/2011 2:44:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/28/2011 2:35:05 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/28/2011 2:27:11 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/26/2011 8:23:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So there's a lot of critics to the minimum wage here. And they would most likely oppose of this just the same. Now I know that the main point used against minimum wage is that it theoretically increases unemployment. So I'm curious as to what point they would have against a maximum income. This could be in-placed alongside a minimum wage but it seems to me that it could be a more viable alternative to it. An employer, rather than directly being required to pay their workers more, is required to only make no more than a certain amount off their business(*sees Capitalist readers cringing*), meaning they would indirectly either have to pay their workers more, improve the business more or lower prices more.


Ahh, socialism at its finest! Never.....

Actually, that has nothing to do with Socialism. It is a regulation on Capitalism, making it Progressivism.

What does have something to do with Socialism is public school, which I recall you being a fan of.

You might also be a fan of our Socialist....
law enforcement
fire department
road system
libraries

And you may be one of those crazy people who want to socialize health care.

I tend to disagree that libraries should be socialized. A place designed to rent books for free tends to screw over authors and is not as efficient as it would be in the private sector. Netflix has mastered the art of renting movies, so that it cost only $8 to rent videos once a week. Take into consideration its much more expensive to produce a video over a book.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/28/2011 3:17:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/28/2011 2:24:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
"A corporation (usually known in the United Kingdom and Ireland as a company) is a legal entity (distinct from a natural person) that often has similar rights in law to those of a natural person.
And you call this special privileges no one else gets?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.