Total Posts:31|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Occupiers vs. The Tea Partiers

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This would be a good time for embedding images to work. All well.

Can you tell which is which?

http://oi52.tinypic.com...

Important stuff aside, lets get into the trivial details...

The Occupy Wall Street protesters seem mainly pissed off about that gap between the top 1% and the other 99%. And they are right. Over the last 30+ years, this gap has widened and the middle and lower classes have seen their real income drop.

http://oi56.tinypic.com...

http://oi56.tinypic.com...

The Tea Party is pissed off about runaway government and tax hikes. And they...well, frankly, don't know what they're talking about. For such an advanced country, our taxes and size of government have actually fallen.

http://oi51.tinypic.com...

http://oi55.tinypic.com...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
000ike
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:05:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Tea Party will die in 2016 after Obama's second term is over. To be frank, many of them are racists.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:13:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I think for many tea partiers, they automattically assume a larger government is a more corrupt and inefficient government.

I think you can find many cases where small governments can be corrupt as well.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:21:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:13:39 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think for many tea partiers, they automattically assume a larger government is a more corrupt and inefficient government.

I think you can find many cases where small governments can be corrupt as well.

A large, corrupt government is more dangerous than a small, corrupt one.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:24:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:21:58 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:13:39 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think for many tea partiers, they automattically assume a larger government is a more corrupt and inefficient government.

I think you can find many cases where small governments can be corrupt as well.

A large, corrupt government is more dangerous than a small, corrupt one.

And since all governments are controlled by the top 1%... and the gap is getting wider... what is the correlation you smart folks out there?
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:24:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
and the middle and lower classes have seen their real income drop.
Nothing you linked is evidence of this. Even assuming that it's true by the numbers, which I doubt (having a lesser share of a bigger pie=/= having less money) note that "Real income" as economists speak of it significantly underestimates actual improvement due to technological change.

nd they...well, frankly, don't know what they're talking about. For such an advanced country, our taxes and size of government have actually fallen.

The second statement is completely, absurdly irrelevant to the first. Whether taxes or size of governmenthave fallen has nothing to do with whether they've fallen enough. Also, your graphs here are only measuring nominal taxes, not regulatory takings or debt (taxes deferred), and hence do not accurately measure the size of government. An improvement is to measure gov't spending as percentage of GDP, not taxes as percentage thereof.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:25:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:13:39 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I think for many tea partiers, they automattically assume a larger government is a more corrupt and inefficient government.

I think you can find many cases where small governments can be corrupt as well.
Not as corrupt. There's less room to hide the corruption among the ten thousand "legitimate" regulatory actions.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:30:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

The Occupy Wall Street protesters seem mainly pissed off about that gap between the top 1% and the other 99%. And they are right. Over the last 30+ years, this gap has widened and the middle and lower classes have seen their real income drop.

They haven't dropped. They just haven't increased as fast as the top 1%. This is misleading. Considering that GDP measures quantity of stuff, not quality, this actually means we are better off then we were 30 years ago.
There's also a great economic wealth difference between the US and Africa. Why doesn't everyone in the United States give their money to Africa?

http://oi56.tinypic.com...

http://oi56.tinypic.com...

Fascinating........

The Tea Party is pissed off about runaway government and tax hikes. And they...well, frankly, don't know what they're talking about.

For such an advanced country, our taxes and size of government have actually fallen.


http://oi51.tinypic.com...

http://oi55.tinypic.com...

The government size and taxes have increased, but stayed the same relevant to GDP. However, this is an increase in spending and an increase in taxes.

Also, let's look at some dumb wall street occupiers shall we:

http://media.waaf.com...

Oh, and wall street occupiers pretty much don't clean up after themselves and have 750 arrests on them for disorderly conduct and blocking traffic. Tea partiers always protest civilly and lawfully. Can't say that for occupy wall street.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:33:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:30:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
There's also a great economic wealth difference between the US and Africa. Why doesn't everyone in the United States give their money to Africa?

They should.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:33:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:05:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Occupy Wall Street will die in 2012 after a Republican candidate brings the economy back in order. To be frank, many of them are racists.

If you can substitute words so easily, your really not saying much important are you?
You don't have any evidence that they are racists.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 8:35:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:33:15 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:30:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
There's also a great economic wealth difference between the US and Africa. Why doesn't everyone in the United States give their money to Africa?

They should.

At least your somewhat consistence. But I don't see protesters caring about the Africa problems. All its about "I'm not as rich as the 1%....wah!" Give me a break.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 9:25:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi55.tinypic.com...

This includes extension of the Bush tax cuts, which was pushed through by the Republicans, not Obama. He shouldn't get credit for it. The graph is misleading.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2011 10:47:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 9:25:43 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi55.tinypic.com...

This includes extension of the Bush tax cuts, which was pushed through by the Republicans, not Obama. He shouldn't get credit for it. The graph is misleading.

He pushed for almost all of the tax cuts... So who should get credit?
President of DDO
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/13/2011 10:54:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 10:47:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/9/2011 9:25:43 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi55.tinypic.com...

This includes extension of the Bush tax cuts, which was pushed through by the Republicans, not Obama. He shouldn't get credit for it. The graph is misleading.

He pushed for almost all of the tax cuts... So who should get credit?

He didn't want the 250k+ tax cuts. The Republicans wanted to extend all the tax cuts. They should get the credit for that.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/16/2011 12:35:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/13/2011 10:54:49 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 10/9/2011 10:47:33 PM, jimtimmy wrote:
At 10/9/2011 9:25:43 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:00:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
http://oi55.tinypic.com...

This includes extension of the Bush tax cuts, which was pushed through by the Republicans, not Obama. He shouldn't get credit for it. The graph is misleading.

He pushed for almost all of the tax cuts... So who should get credit?

He didn't want the 250k+ tax cuts. The Republicans wanted to extend all the tax cuts. They should get the credit for that.

The 250k+ tax cuts were about 1/10 of the total package he passed... So, Obama suppported 90% of it...
President of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/17/2011 2:02:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:05:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Flea Party will die when in 2012 when they have no political traction. To be frank, many of them are anti-semites.
jimtimmy
Posts: 3,953
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/17/2011 11:54:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/17/2011 10:01:26 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
In a perfect world, everything is free. Labor, and goods.

Yet, we live in a world of scarcity...
President of DDO
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/18/2011 2:36:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/18/2011 1:36:29 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 10/17/2011 2:49:53 PM, innomen wrote:
"Occupiers"

http://www.theblaze.com...

Is there a good point behind this anywhere?

Looking for a distinction between Tea Party and the "occupiers", and here are a couple endorsements for the occupiers.
inferno
Posts: 10,556
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/20/2011 9:30:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:33:23 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:05:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Occupy Wall Street will die in 2012 after a Republican candidate brings the economy back in order. To be frank, many of them are racists.

If you can substitute words so easily, your really not saying much important are you?
You don't have any evidence that they are racists.

Kermit. Many of them are because they represent to some degree that segment of America that is very uncomfortable with a Black Man in the White House as well as the infilitration of other minority groups that have populated our country to a rather enormous degree over the past decade.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/7/2011 10:36:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
what is obama doesnt get a second term? then your first pt shoul dbe like they will die in 2013
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 10:22:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:33:23 PM, darkkermit wrote:
If you can substitute words so easily, your really not saying much important are you?
You don't have any evidence that they are racists.

What you did in a previous post was post a link to someone from OSW who you consider dumb, and therefore you think that the entire movement is dumb. Well, I can just as easily link interviews to dumb a$s TP people who are in fact racist, and clearly by your standards that would be enough evidence that the TP is a stupid movement founded on racism.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 10:22:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:35:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At least your somewhat consistence. But I don't see protesters caring about the Africa problems. All its about "I'm not as rich as the 1%....wah!" Give me a break.

What a juvenile, intellectually dishonest, over-simplification of their views. Sigh.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 10:23:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2011 9:25:43 PM, mongoose wrote:
This includes extension of the Bush tax cuts, which was pushed through by the Republicans, not Obama. He shouldn't get credit for it. The graph is misleading.

Yes, and we all know how much mongoose hates being misleading facts. He is the epitome of credible.
President of DDO
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 10:30:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2011 8:24:50 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Nothing you linked is evidence of this. Even assuming that it's true by the numbers, which I doubt (having a lesser share of a bigger pie=/= having less money) note that "Real income" as economists speak of it significantly underestimates actual improvement due to technological change.

Just because it's going up in number doesn't mean anything considering inflation. Are you really denying the widening income gap? Really? Nobody isn't saying rising tides don't lift all boats (I could actually dispute that but won't go OT for now), but that doesn't change the facts about the income/wealth disparity trends.

Also what was that other thread we started talking in one day? I forgot to respond. If you remember, let me know. If not, no biggie.
President of DDO
tyler90az
Posts: 971
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 10:38:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, and wall street occupiers pretty much don't clean up after themselves and have 750 arrests on them for disorderly conduct and blocking traffic. Tea partiers always protest civilly and lawfully. Can't say that for occupy wall street.

Protesters not cleaning up after themselves is pure propaganda. Was there trash in Zuccoti park? Yes! That is what happens when you camp, however, the protesters did clean up after themselves. When there was a threat of the park closing for cleaning, they did a thorough cleaning. I can also attest to the fact that it happened in different Occupy locations.
We can look at Berkley in the 60's for evidence of what those opposed to the Occupy Movement are doing. During the Berkley protests everybody was made out to be dirty hippies. If those opposed to the movement actually recognize "normal people" are protesting more people would join them. It is a very effective battle strategy called, demonizing the enemy.
As far as the 750 arrests, most of them were in violation of the First Amendment of the Constitution. In the First Amendment it states, "abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances." The protesters are supposed to be protected by the constitution to protest. Protesters were not harming or causing trouble to anyone, they were protesting.
I know the Occupy Phoenix arrests were because of the park closing. Is it a big deal to occupy a section of a park to protest? The answer is simply no, however, police don't want protesters in their city, so they arrested people. Arrests are used purely as a deterrent to keep people away. It is not that any protester was violating a law, because the Constitution supersedes all local laws.
Now to explain the mission of the Occupy Movement. The main mission of the Occupy Movement was to raise peoples consciousness to understand what is going on in this country. People need to be aware of the growing wealth disparity in America, lobbyist run government, white collar crime(those three are the main ones in my opinion) and a slew of other things. All those things are causing this country we love(most) to deteriorate.
Now knowing what the mission was, you would be a liar to say it was not successful. Everybody has heard about the movement and hopefully researched. Those who have researched it and still deny what we are saying, are by their own choice, ignorant. I am not saying those that don't agree about us protesting, just those who choose to ignore facts.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/8/2011 1:45:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/20/2011 9:30:07 AM, inferno wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:33:23 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2011 8:05:55 PM, 000ike wrote:
The Occupy Wall Street will die in 2012 after a Republican candidate brings the economy back in order. To be frank, many of them are racists.

If you can substitute words so easily, your really not saying much important are you?
You don't have any evidence that they are racists.

Kermit. Many of them are because they represent to some degree that segment of America that is very uncomfortable with a Black Man in the White House as well as the infilitration of other minority groups that have populated our country to a rather enormous degree over the past decade.

Oh, give me a break bro. Herman Cain is a full-on Tea Party hero. For the majority of the movement, it's not about race.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/11/2011 9:32:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
lol Freedo, Obama has grown government and has made it bigger than historically. Historically all they could do is tax, wage war, and other minor stuff. Than the size increased, then decreased under reagan, went up only slightly under clinton, shrank first bush term, grew 2nd, under obama its rising like hell.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross