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16kadams
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4/7/2012 10:23:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
like a blood drive, for the economics forum. It never gets posts, so lets post economic things here, and let the conversation digress. :)
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/7/2012 10:26:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'll start. Labor unions hurt the economy.

*let the conversation evolve!!*
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/7/2012 11:09:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/7/2012 10:31:04 PM, Apollo.11 wrote:
At 4/7/2012 10:30:09 PM, 16kadams wrote:
...
http://www.heritage.org...

What a great, unbiased, un-affiliated, objective source...

[1]S. 560, 111th Congress.

[2]See, for example, David Madland and Kara Walter, "Unions Are Good for the American Economy," Center for American Progress, February 18, 2009, at http://www.americanprogressaction.org...
sheets.html (May 4, 2009).

[3]Dr. Anne Layne-Farrar, "An Empirical Assessment of the Employee Free Choice Act: The Economic Implications," Law and Economics Consulting Group, March 3 2009, at http://papers.ssrn.com...
?abstract_id=1353305 (May 4, 2009).

[4]George Borjas, Labor Economics, 3rd edition (Columbus, Ohio: McGraw-Hill, 2005).

[5]James Sherk, "Auto Bailout Ignores Excessive Labor Costs," Heritage Foundation WebMemo No. 2135, November 19, 2008, at http://www.heritage.org....

[6]Michael L. Wachter, "Theories of the Employment Relationship: Choosing Between Norms and Theoretical Perspectives on Work and the Employment Relationship, ed. Bruce E. Kaufman (Champaign, Ill.: Industrial Relations Research Association, 2004), pp. 163-193; Barry T. Hirsch, "Sluggish Institutions in a Dynamic World: Can Unions and Industrial Competition Coexist?" Journal of Economic Perspectives, Vol. 22, No. 1 (Winter 2008), pp. 153-176.

[7]David Metcalf, Kirstine Hansen, and Andy Charlwood, "Unions and the Sword of Justice: Unions and Pay Systems, Pay Inequality, Pay Discrimination and Low Pay," National Institute Economic Review, Vol. 176, No. 1 (April 2001), pp. 61-75; Richard B. Freeman, "Union Wage Practices and Wage Dispersion Within Establishments," Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 36, No. 1 (October 1982), pp. 3-21.

[8]Freeman, "Union Wage Practices and Wage Dispersion Within Establishments"; David Card, Thomas Lemieux, and W. Craig Riddell, "Unions and the Wage Structure," in International Handbook of Trade Unions (Cheltenham, U.K.: Edward Elgar, 2003).

[9]David Card, "The Effect of Unions on the Structure of Wages: A Longitudinal Analysis," Econometrica, Vol. 64, No. 4 (July 1996), pp. 957-979; Daniele Checchi, Jelle Visser, and Herman G. Van de Werfhorst, "Inequality and Union Membership: The Impact of Relative Earnings Position and Inequality Attitudes," IZA Discussion Paper No. 2691, March 2007; John Abowd and Henry Farber, "Job Queues and the Union Status of Workers," Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 35, No. 3 (April 1982), pp. 354-367.

[10]John W. Budd and In-Gang Na, "The Union Membership Wage Premium for Employees Covered by Collective Bargaining Agreements," Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 18, No. 4 (October 2000), pp. 783-807; H. Gregg Lewis, Union Relative Wage Effects: A Survey (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1986).

[11]Barry T. Hirsch, "Reconsidering Union Wage Effects: Surveying New Evidence on an Old Topic," Journal of Labor Research, Vol. 25, No. 2 (April 2004), pp. 233-266.

[12]George Jakubson, "Estimation and Testing of the Union Wage Effect Using Panel Data," Review of Economic Studies, Vol. 58, No. 5 (October 1991), pp. 971-991.

[13]Card, "The Effect of Unions on the Structure of Wages: A Longitudinal Analysis."

[14]Barry T. Hirsch and Edward J. Schumacher, "Unions, Wages, and Skills," Journal of Human Resources, Vol. 33, No. 1 (Winter 1998), pp. 201-219; Changhui Kang, "Union Wage Effect: New Evidence from Matched Employer-Employee Data," National University of Singapore, Department of Economics, Departmental Working Paper No. wp0302, 2003.

[15]Thomas Lemieux, "Estimating the Effects of Unions on Wage Inequality in a Panel Data Model with Comparative Advantage and Nonrandom Selection," Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 16, No. 2 (April 1998), pp. 261-291.

[16]Robert J. Lalonde, Gerard Marschke, and Kenneth Troske, "Using Longitudinal Data on Establishments to Analyze the Effects of Union Organizing Campaigns in the United States," Annales d' Economie et de Statistique, Vol. 41-42 (January- June 1996), pp. 155-185; Richard B. Freeman and Morris M. Kleiner, "The Impact of New Unionization on Wages and Working Conditions," Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 8, No. 1 (January 1990), pp. S8-25; John DiNardo and David S. Lee, "Economic Impacts of New Unionization on Private Sector Employers: 1984-2001," The Quarterly Journal of Economics, Vol. 119, No. 4 (November 2004), pp. 1383-1441.

[17]Barry T. Hirsch, "Union Coverage and Profitability Among U.S. Firms," The Review of Economics and Statistics, Vol. 73, No. 1 (February 1991), pp. 69-77; Stephen G. Bronars, Donald R. Deere, and Joseph S. Tracy, "The Effects of Unions on Firm Behavior: An Empirical Analysis Using Firm-Level Data," Industrial Relations, Vol. 33, No. 4 (October 1994) pp. 426-451.

[18]David Lee and Alexandre Mas, "Long-Run Impacts of Unions on Firms: New Evidence from Financial Markets, 1961-1999," National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper No. 14709, February 2009.

[19]Barry T. Hirsch, Labor Unions and the Economic Performance of U.S. Firms (Kalamazoo, Mich.: Upjohn Institute for Employment Research, 1991); Joseph Cavanaugh, "Asset-Specific Investment and Unionized Labor," Industrial Relations, Vol. 37, No. 1 (January 1998), pp. 35-50.

[20]Robert Connolly, Barry T. Hirsch, and Mark Hirschey, "Union Rent Seeking, Intangible Capital, and Market Value of the Firm," Review of Economics and Statistics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (November 1986), pp. 567-577; Bronars, Deere, and Tracy, "The Effects of Unions on Firm Behavior"; Stephen G. Bronars and Donald R. Deere, "Unionization, Incomplete Contracting, and Capital Investment," Journal of Business, Vol. 66, No. 1 (January 1993), pp. 117-132; Barry T. Hirsch, "Firm Investment Behavior and Collective Bargaining Strategy," Industrial Relations, Vol. 31, No. 1 (Winter 1992), pp. 95-121.

[21]Hirsch, Labor Unions and the Economic Performance of U.S. Firms.

[22]Julian Betts, Cameron W. Odgers, and Michael K. Wilson, "The Effects of Unions on Research and Development: An Empirical Analysis Using Multi-Year Data," Canadian Journal of Economics, Vol. 34, No. 3 (August 2001), pp. 785-806.

[23]Bruce C. Fallick and Kevin A. Hassett, "Investment and Union Certification," Journal of Labor Economics, Vol. 17, No. 3 (July 1999), pp. 570-582.

[24]Barry T. Hirsch and David A. Macpherson, "Union Membership and Coverage Database from the Current Population Survey," Industrial Labor Relations Review, Vol. 56, No. 2 (January 2003), pp. 349-354, at http://www.unionstats.com... (May 5, 2009). Union refers to union members and non-union members covered by collective bargaining agreements. Non-union refers to workers not covered by collective bargaining agreements.

[25]Ibid.

[26]Henry Farber and Bruce Western, "Accounting for the Decline of Unions in the Private Sector, 1973-1998," Journal of Labor Research, Vol. 22, No. 2 (September 2001), pp. 459-485.

[27]Bernt Bratsberg and James F. Ragan, Jr., "Changes in the Union Wage Premium by Industry," Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 56, No. 1 (October 2002), pp. 65-83; Peter D. Linneman, Michael L. Wachter, and William H. Carter, "Evaluating the Evidence on Union Employment and Wages," Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 44, No. 1 (October 1990), pp. 34-53.

[28]Timothy Dunne and David MacPherson, "Unionism and Gross Employment Flows," Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 60, No. 3 (January 1994), pp. 727-738; Richard B. Freeman and Morris M. Kleiner, "Do Unions Make Enterprises Insolvent?" Industrial and Labor Relations Review, Vol. 52, No. 4 (July 1999), pp. 510-527.

[29]Dunne and MacPherson, "Unionism and Gross Employment Flows."

[30]David G. Blanchflower, Neil Millward, and Andrew J. Oswald, "Unionization and Employment Behavior," Economic Jo
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16kadams
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4/7/2012 11:09:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
^ better?
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darkkermit
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4/7/2012 11:24:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
General opinion, yes. Although this also depends on how we define labor unions and how they operate on a political-economic field. US trade unions have more political power hen people imagine. Just looking at open secrets demonstrate they are top campaign donors.

I believe that the guilds of the medieval time greatly hampered economic growth since they refused to share their trade secrets or let any member join, were politically connected, and barred others from trading in their practice.

Although many nations with strong economies are heavily unionized. Yet there union system is very different from the US systems. They're more like craft unions like the AMA that effect the entire labor force in the union rather then negotiate with individual industries.

The problem with individualized negotiation with certain companies is that there isn't enough profits for companies to deal with their demands, unless of course your a muncipal employee in which you can extract lots of money from taxpayers while contributing very little in wealth.
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16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:51:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I am just gonna post stuff here...
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:51:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
more post
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:52:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
just giving the economics section another post
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:52:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/8/2012 5:52:47 PM, 16kadams wrote:
just giving the economics section another post

thats what this was for
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:53:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
lets see if I can post until I get too 4000
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:53:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
say stop to stop
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/8/2012 5:59:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No one posts here, so no one will notice
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
DetectableNinja
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4/8/2012 6:56:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
16, I notice that you really love sourcebombing the sh1t out of one sentence.

This does not substantiate your claims. It's lazy.
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000ike
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4/8/2012 6:58:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/8/2012 6:56:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
16, I notice that you really love sourcebombing the sh1t out of one sentence.

This does not substantiate your claims. It's lazy.

well, I mean, it does take effort to find all those sources lol :p
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DetectableNinja
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4/8/2012 7:02:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/8/2012 6:58:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/8/2012 6:56:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
16, I notice that you really love sourcebombing the sh1t out of one sentence.

This does not substantiate your claims. It's lazy.

well, I mean, it does take effort to find all those sources lol :p

True, but I mean, just doing this:

<Insert single sweeping statement here>. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

is not good argumentation. It's trying to justify a sweeping statement with sources instead of a logical, well thought out, original argument.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
16kadams
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4/9/2012 6:48:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/8/2012 7:02:14 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 4/8/2012 6:58:34 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 4/8/2012 6:56:16 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
16, I notice that you really love sourcebombing the sh1t out of one sentence.

This does not substantiate your claims. It's lazy.

well, I mean, it does take effort to find all those sources lol :p

True, but I mean, just doing this:

<Insert single sweeping statement here>. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]

is not good argumentation. It's trying to justify a sweeping statement with sources instead of a logical, well thought out, original argument.

Look at my more recent debates
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
imabench
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4/9/2012 10:23:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/7/2012 10:26:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I'll start. Labor unions hurt the economy.

*let the conversation evolve!!*

oh wow sherlock holmes thanks i didnt realize that..... Can you tell us something else we already know about captain obvious? At least dont bump your own forum 10 times in a row
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16kadams
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4/9/2012 11:06:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 10:23:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 4/7/2012 10:26:49 PM, 16kadams wrote:
I'll start. Labor unions hurt the economy.

*let the conversation evolve!!*

oh wow sherlock holmes thanks i didnt realize that..... Can you tell us something else we already know about captain obvious? At least dont bump your own forum 10 times in a row

The bumps are the purpose of the forum mostly
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
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4/10/2012 5:35:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Trolling
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross