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The Root Theories of Left and Right

FREEDO
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4/9/2012 1:57:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
When speaking of economics, it isn't always so clear what our distinctions of "left" and "right" really mean. Sure, we have a lot of assorted issues we associate with each side within our own context, but none of it gives a clear explanation of what left or right really are.

So this thought occurred to me of what this might be. I'd like your opinion on whether you think these root theories are a correct application to the terms. And I'd also like you to frivolously bicker among yourself about the practical difference between these two theories. There are both Libertarian and Authoritarian means of accomplishing these ends.

Left is this: Supporting the disadvantaged. Expanding on a minimum standard of living. Supposedly, this will allow more people to meet their full potential.

Right is this: Supporting the advantaged. Expanding on a maximum standard of living. Supposedly, this will create more wealth that will trickle-down to others.
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fnord
imabench
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4/9/2012 2:32:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think the left definition is perfect but Im not so sure about the definition for the right
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OberHerr
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4/9/2012 2:33:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Eh, I think its more expanded than those definitions.

Thats just a part of it.
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FREEDO
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4/9/2012 2:44:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 2:33:43 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Eh, I think its more expanded than those definitions.

Thats just a part of it.

Of course not, no one really means anything specific when they say "left" or "right". I was just trying to capture the general feeling of what they mean.
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fnord
Greyparrot
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4/9/2012 3:45:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 1:57:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Left is this: Supporting the lazy. Expanding on a minimum standard of living. Supposedly, this will allow more people to meet their full potential.

Right is this: Supporting the motivated. Expanding on a maximum standard of living. Supposedly, this will create more wealth that will trickle-down to others.

sounds good to me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/9/2012 8:12:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 1:57:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Left is this: Supporting the disadvantaged. Expanding on a minimum standard of living. Supposedly, this will allow more people to meet their full potential.

Left is this: Supporting social change to create a more egalitarian society. Wanting to reduce or abolish unjustified inequalities. Supposedly, this will allow more people to meet their full potential.

Right is this: Supporting the advantaged. Expanding on a maximum standard of living. Supposedly, this will create more wealth that will trickle-down to others.

I suppose these definitions are okay considering the idea was to be really short with them. Obviously both can be expanded upon. I do think where the left and right get blurry though are among anarchists, since leftists are usually known for idealizing State imposed regulations though leftist anarchists (like myself) obviously don't support the State.
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darkkermit
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4/9/2012 8:33:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 8:05:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Anyone care to elaborate on why one is better for the economy than the other?

economist can't agree on anything.
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Contra
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4/9/2012 8:49:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 1:57:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
When speaking of economics, it isn't always so clear what our distinctions of "left" and "right" really mean. Sure, we have a lot of assorted issues we associate with each side within our own context, but none of it gives a clear explanation of what left or right really are.

So this thought occurred to me of what this might be. I'd like your opinion on whether you think these root theories are a correct application to the terms. And I'd also like you to frivolously bicker among yourself about the practical difference between these two theories. There are both Libertarian and Authoritarian means of accomplishing these ends.

Left is this: Supporting the disadvantaged. Expanding on a minimum standard of living. Supposedly, this will allow more people to meet their full potential.

Right is this: Supporting the advantaged. Expanding on a maximum standard of living. Supposedly, this will create more wealth that will trickle-down to others.

The biggest CON in history. The belief that, if suddenly, you give a rich guy millions of more dollars, you will, yes you, will get richer too! Amazing!
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
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4/9/2012 8:49:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The basis of the Left and Right is morality.

Left = Nurturant Morality

Right = Strict Father Morality
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
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4/9/2012 8:55:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 8:49:46 PM, Contra wrote:
The basis of the Left and Right is morality.

Left = Nurturant Morality

Right = Strict Father Morality

This may be true but this thread is actually only in the context of economic ends.
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fnord
Contra
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4/9/2012 9:34:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 8:55:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/9/2012 8:49:46 PM, Contra wrote:
The basis of the Left and Right is morality.

Left = Nurturant Morality

Right = Strict Father Morality

This may be true but this thread is actually only in the context of economic ends.

I know. Morality expands into all the frames of political thought, including economics. I can expand more tomorrow.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Lordknukle
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4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

Right: Believe that the individual has an inherent duty to provide for his own well being, not the State, and as a result he suffers/reaps the consequences of his actions. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I assume that we aren't talking about a moderate left/right stance but a somewhat extreme(ish) one.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
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4/9/2012 9:38:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

Right: Believe that the individual has an inherent duty to provide for his own well being, not the State, and as a result he suffers/reaps the consequences of his actions. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I assume that we aren't talking about a moderate left/right stance but a somewhat extreme(ish) one.

I actually think you definition is correct. However, it stems from Nurturant/ Strict father morality, as I will prove, so I have the "root theory" :D
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
FREEDO
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4/9/2012 9:54:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

Right: Believe that the individual has an inherent duty to provide for his own well being, not the State, and as a result he suffers/reaps the consequences of his actions. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I assume that we aren't talking about a moderate left/right stance but a somewhat extreme(ish) one.

And that kids, is how to give a highly biased and unprofessional answer.
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fnord
Lordknukle
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4/9/2012 10:07:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 9:54:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

Right: Believe that the individual has an inherent duty to provide for his own well being, not the State, and as a result he suffers/reaps the consequences of his actions. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I assume that we aren't talking about a moderate left/right stance but a somewhat extreme(ish) one.

And that kids, is how to give a highly biased and unprofessional answer.

Care to enlighten me on what's wrong with it?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
FREEDO
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4/10/2012 12:59:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 10:07:50 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:54:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

Right: Believe that the individual has an inherent duty to provide for his own well being, not the State, and as a result he suffers/reaps the consequences of his actions. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I assume that we aren't talking about a moderate left/right stance but a somewhat extreme(ish) one.

And that kids, is how to give a highly biased and unprofessional answer.

Care to enlighten me on what's wrong with it?

No. I prefer everyone go on entertaining me with their specific delusions.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/10/2012 9:03:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 8:05:29 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Anyone care to elaborate on why one is better for the economy than the other?

The "economy" refers to the labor, capital, land resources, manufacturing, production, trade, distribution and consumption of goods and services of a particular area. So in order to answer your question, you'd first have to establish goals of the economy. If mass production and hyper consumption and growth is your goal, then Right economic policies would probably prove superior. If you want to establish a more egalitarian society, Leftist policies would probably be best. I am a leftist because I think it's better for both society and individuals.
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Danielle
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4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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4/10/2012 9:30:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 8:49:46 PM, Contra wrote:
The basis of the Left and Right is morality.

Left = Nurturant Morality

Right = Strict Father Morality

That's the social left and right, and has been defined easily by people (although the third war and Blairite has buggered everything up)
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royalpaladin
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4/10/2012 9:42:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This. I have exactly the same belief with regards as to whether or not the state should exist.
Lordknukle
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4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol
Lordknukle
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4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.
Lordknukle
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4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.

XXXXXXXXX

Not YYYYYYYY
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/10/2012 11:02:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.

XXXXXXXXX

Not YYYYYYYY

I understand that. I just explained to you that there are Leftists who do not want to have a government. These individuals believe in Leftist economics but think that the people can regulate businesses/themselves.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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4/10/2012 11:04:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 11:02:30 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.

XXXXXXXXX

Not YYYYYYYY

I understand that. I just explained to you that there are Leftists who do not want to have a government. These individuals believe in Leftist economics but think that the people can regulate businesses/themselves.

Most leftists support the existence of a State, hence I made a generalization about leftists.

Just because one crazy anarchist doesn't believe in the State does not mean that the entire liberal definition is wrong.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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4/10/2012 11:08:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 11:04:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:02:30 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.

XXXXXXXXX

Not YYYYYYYY

I understand that. I just explained to you that there are Leftists who do not want to have a government. These individuals believe in Leftist economics but think that the people can regulate businesses/themselves.

Most leftists support the existence of a State, hence I made a generalization about leftists.

Just because one crazy anarchist doesn't believe in the State does not mean that the entire liberal definition is wrong.

LOL, all Anarchist leftists don't believe in the State.

How would you like it if I made some ridiculous generalization about conservatives?
Lordknukle
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4/10/2012 11:08:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/10/2012 11:08:11 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:04:48 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:02:30 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 11:00:43 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:59:13 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:53:38 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:52:06 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 4/10/2012 10:29:06 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 4/10/2012 9:05:08 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 4/9/2012 9:36:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Left: Believe that the State has an inherent duty in providing a societal safety net and help for the disadvantaged. Supposedly, this will make everybody's quality of life better.

I am a Leftist and I don't support the State so your entire answer is eradicated.

This is solely from a left-right socio-economic spectrum, not a y axis with libertarianism and authoritarianism.

No State=no state for any purpose, lol

Not my point. My explanation is based on the x axis, not the y axis.

Your explanation is false because there are Leftists who do not want the state to exist at all. That includes for economic and and social purposes.

XXXXXXXXX

Not YYYYYYYY

I understand that. I just explained to you that there are Leftists who do not want to have a government. These individuals believe in Leftist economics but think that the people can regulate businesses/themselves.

Most leftists support the existence of a State, hence I made a generalization about leftists.

Just because one crazy anarchist doesn't believe in the State does not mean that the entire liberal definition is wrong.

LOL, all Anarchist leftists don't believe in the State.

How would you like it if I made some ridiculous generalization about conservatives?

It's not a ridiculous generalization if most leftists/rightists believe in the basis of the viewpoint.

Compare the # of anarchists with the # of regular left or right people.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."