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False demand

DanT
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8/19/2012 5:19:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The economy has a natural consumption cycle, where consumption for a product increases than decreases. When consumption for one product decreases, consumption of another product increases. Therefore industries should be constantly developing new products, or improving old products. Overall consumption naturally increases over time, as the population grows.

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If a industry releases a product too late, it causes a recession for that industry. Depending on the industry, or if multiple industries are facing a recession than the general economy also goes into a recession.

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If the Government steps in with deficit spending, it creates a false demand by investors. This takes away from the consumption of the new product, and prolongs the cycle. When the deficit spending the stops, the false demand becomes a time bomb. The investors eventually pull out of the sinking ship, and the bubble pops. The end result is a recession larger than the one avoided by the deficit spending.

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"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/21/2012 1:33:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
a) you didn't even bother labeling your axises
b) there's no "natural consumption pattern". There hasn't been a decrease in consumption in food over time.
c) If there were a natural consumption, then it fails to explain why consumption as a net aggregate decreases during a recession. If consumption goes from one to another, one shouldn't expected a fall in gdp.
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DanT
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8/22/2012 10:44:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 1:33:42 PM, darkkermit wrote:
a) you didn't even bother labeling your axises
Yes I did
b) there's no "natural consumption pattern". There hasn't been a decrease in consumption in food over time.
a.) the types of food we eat has changed over time. The food industry has a larger life cycle. Which is why the food industry is more reliable. This applies to industries, and the industries are added together to make the total economic consumption
c) If there were a natural consumption, then it fails to explain why consumption as a net aggregate decreases during a recession. If consumption goes from one to another, one shouldn't expected a fall in gdp.
Did you not see the second graph?
http://www.debate.org...
When industries are slow in developing new products (either through innovation of old products or creation of new products) it creates a recession in that industry.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
darkkermit
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8/22/2012 1:52:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 10:44:49 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/21/2012 1:33:42 PM, darkkermit wrote:
a) you didn't even bother labeling your axises
Yes I did

What do you mean as "demand". A demand function is the quantity consumers will buy at a certain price level. What are your units for time?

b) there's no "natural consumption pattern". There hasn't been a decrease in consumption in food over time.
a.) the types of food we eat has changed over time. The food industry has a larger life cycle. Which is why the food industry is more reliable. This applies to industries, and the industries are added together to make the total economic consumption

Then were getting into semantics of what's considered a "good" which is often hard to define. But when a movie comes out, it obtains its most consumption the first night and then goes down. It clearly doesn't follow your pattern.

c) If there were a natural consumption, then it fails to explain why consumption as a net aggregate decreases during a recession. If consumption goes from one to another, one shouldn't expected a fall in gdp.
Did you not see the second graph?
http://www.debate.org...
When industries are slow in developing new products (either through innovation of old products or creation of new products) it creates a recession in that industry.

Those are just graphs. You haven't even bothered to show how you got these graphs. What these equations are and what your method was.
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darkkermit
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8/22/2012 5:31:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh I get it now. Somehow product consumption follows a perfect quadratic function. Somehow product consumption falls falls and a secondary product occurs to pick it up. Somehow the schedules coexist with one another. Somehow recessions occur because people lower consumption because apparently that's just the consumption schedule works. People just act very atomic that way, for no good reason for dropping consumption.

Somehow government spending is "false demand". Sort of like how police services are just "false demand" from government spending. Maybe spending on the police force caused the recession.
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DanT
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8/23/2012 9:24:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 5:31:56 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Oh I get it now. Somehow product consumption follows a perfect quadratic function. Somehow product consumption falls falls and a secondary product occurs to pick it up. Somehow the schedules coexist with one another. Somehow recessions occur because people lower consumption because apparently that's just the consumption schedule works. People just act very atomic that way, for no good reason for dropping consumption.

again not what I or the chart says. consumption of a product has a natural cycle, where the demand starts off low, reaches a peak, than falls. Some products have a longer life cycle than others. The second product has a greater demand because of a greater population size. When the second product is not put on the market fast enough, or the product is not advertised efficient enough, a recession for that industry occurs, because the demand from the consumers is too slow. When multiple industries face a recession, the economy faces a recession.

Somehow government spending is "false demand". Sort of like how police services are just "false demand" from government spending. Maybe spending on the police force caused the recession.

Not what I said. The government is the only entity that spends money on the police force, because the police force is a branch of the government. That would be like saying Wal-mart should reduce their spending for sams club, so that sams club can thrive.
I'm talking about private industries bailed out by the government; I'm talking about stimulus spending. Stimulus spending is not the only thing that can create a false demand. When a company does false advertisement, violates contracts, and so on, it creates a false demand because the consumer or investor is tricked into a false product. When the government tries to stimulate the economy, it creates a false demand for investors.

The labels for time, and demand are non-specific because the time and demand may vary depending on the product.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
darkkermit
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8/23/2012 3:09:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 9:24:08 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/22/2012 5:31:56 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Oh I get it now. Somehow product consumption follows a perfect quadratic function. Somehow product consumption falls falls and a secondary product occurs to pick it up. Somehow the schedules coexist with one another. Somehow recessions occur because people lower consumption because apparently that's just the consumption schedule works. People just act very atomic that way, for no good reason for dropping consumption.

again not what I or the chart says. consumption of a product has a natural cycle,

which you have not once proven.

where the demand starts off low, reaches a peak, than falls.

Why though? Are you telling me If new food products aren't invented, people will stop buying old food products and starve because of the "natural consumption cycle". this is what it implies.

Some products have a longer life cycle than others.

I'm not talking about the length, I'm talking about the perfect quadratic shape of the consumption cycle.

The second product has a greater demand because of a greater population size.

That was amazingly non-sequiter.

When the second product is not put on the market fast enough, or the product is not advertised efficient enough, a recession for that industry occurs, because the demand from the consumers is too slow.

Yep, like with food. If new food products aren't created, damn people will just not consume food. The only proof you have of this of occuring is "natural consumer cycle" which you have yet to prove, and explain why people all of a sudden find the need just to consume less because of some "comsumption cycle"

When multiple industries face a recession, the economy faces a recession.

Somehow government spending is "false demand". Sort of like how police services are just "false demand" from government spending. Maybe spending on the police force caused the recession.

Not what I said. The government is the only entity that spends money on the police force, because the police force is a branch of the government. That would be like saying Wal-mart should reduce their spending for sams club, so that sams club can thrive.

Yet you state somehow that government spending must be false demand, when clearly there are areas where there are freaking real demands.

I'm talking about private industries bailed out by the government; I'm talking about stimulus spending.
Stimulus spending is not the only thing that can create a false demand. When a company does false advertisement, violates contracts, and so on, it creates a false demand because the consumer or investor is tricked into a false product. When the government tries to stimulate the economy, it creates a false demand for investors.


The labels for time, and demand are non-specific because the time and demand may vary depending on the product.

also note that when you say "demand" you really mean output as I already explained what is wrong with using demand as the y variable. What the hell is a 100 unit of demand.
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DanT
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8/23/2012 9:46:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 3:09:29 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/23/2012 9:24:08 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/22/2012 5:31:56 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Oh I get it now. Somehow product consumption follows a perfect quadratic function. Somehow product consumption falls falls and a secondary product occurs to pick it up. Somehow the schedules coexist with one another. Somehow recessions occur because people lower consumption because apparently that's just the consumption schedule works. People just act very atomic that way, for no good reason for dropping consumption.

again not what I or the chart says. consumption of a product has a natural cycle,

which you have not once proven.

Well it's kind of hard to prove something to someone who doesn't listen. f you want me to explain stop putting words in my mouth so we can have a legitimate discussion.
where the demand starts off low, reaches a peak, than falls.

Why though? Are you telling me If new food products aren't invented, people will stop buying old food products and starve because of the "natural consumption cycle". this is what it implies.

No, I'm saying if no new food products are invented, when the demand for old food products falls, for what ever reason (possibly a rise in cost of production), there would be no new alternative.

Say oil prices went up to $20 per gallon, solely due to an increase in operational costs. Now the demand for oil at $20 per gallon is severely limited. Unless a alternative fuel is available, the fuel industry would suffer a recession. Industries associated with the fuel industry would also suffer.

Some products have a longer life cycle than others.

I'm not talking about the length, I'm talking about the perfect quadratic shape of the consumption cycle.

The central limit theorem
The second product has a greater demand because of a greater population size.

That was amazingly non-sequiter.

Not true...
If someone sells books solely to their own country they would receive allot less sales than if the book was sold globally. That is provided that they are good writers. If the quality of the product is poor than it doesn't have a very influential economic impact to begin with.

When the second product is not put on the market fast enough, or the product is not advertised efficient enough, a recession for that industry occurs, because the demand from the consumers is too slow.

Yep, like with food. If new food products aren't created, damn people will just not consume food. The only proof you have of this of occuring is "natural consumer cycle" which you have yet to prove, and explain why people all of a sudden find the need just to consume less because of some "comsumption cycle"

Again you are putting words in my mouth. That is not what I'm saying at all.
When multiple industries face a recession, the economy faces a recession.

Somehow government spending is "false demand". Sort of like how police services are just "false demand" from government spending. Maybe spending on the police force caused the recession.

Not what I said. The government is the only entity that spends money on the police force, because the police force is a branch of the government. That would be like saying Wal-mart should reduce their spending for sams club, so that sams club can thrive.

Yet you state somehow that government spending must be false demand, when clearly there are areas where there are freaking real demands.

Government spending in the private sector is a false demand. Government spending in the public sector is not.

Take for example WWII. When it ended countries started to rebuild. They relied on natural resources from 3rd world countries, and the US. About the time Japan finished rebuilding, the world went to an economic recession due to a decrease in demand for raw material. First there was a boom, than a crash. The cause of the boom was a false demand; the world did not suddenly need more resources, they needed the resources to fix the destruction caused by WWII. If WII never took place there would be no boom, and no following crash.
I'm talking about private industries bailed out by the government; I'm talking about stimulus spending.
Stimulus spending is not the only thing that can create a false demand. When a company does false advertisement, violates contracts, and so on, it creates a false demand because the consumer or investor is tricked into a false product. When the government tries to stimulate the economy, it creates a false demand for investors.




The labels for time, and demand are non-specific because the time and demand may vary depending on the product.

also note that when you say "demand" you really mean output as I already explained what is wrong with using demand as the y variable. What the hell is a 100 unit of demand.

again the units are non specific. What is a 1 unit time? The units are used to show passing time and growing demand.
Also output is different than demand. By demand I mean consumption. Output would be referring to supply.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle