Total Posts:28|Showing Posts:1-28
Jump to topic:

Capitalism vs. Socialism (Poll)

Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 10:12:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I like Socialism, but only when it is mixed with Liberty. lol
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 11:02:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Regulated Capitalism.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
imabench
Posts: 21,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 11:03:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:02:40 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
Regulated Capitalism.

^^^^
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 8:41:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
laissez-faire
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 8:56:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Capitalism.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 10:46:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:03:20 AM, imabench wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:02:40 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
Regulated Capitalism.

^^^^

Yeah. You gotta make the economy less-efficient and more-cartelizing, ya know?!
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2012 10:53:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 10:46:27 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:03:20 AM, imabench wrote:
At 8/21/2012 11:02:40 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
Regulated Capitalism.

^^^^

Yeah. You gotta make the economy less-efficient and more-cartelizing, ya know?!

http://www.debate.org...
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 3:07:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/21/2012 11:02:40 AM, Frederick53 wrote:
Regulated Capitalism.

I too sometimes feel the need to strangle flowers.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
slo1
Posts: 4,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?
yoda878
Posts: 902
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 2:51:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Like higher taxes from the working man to pay for it? What means are you taking about ?
Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?
Me
Contra
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/22/2012 4:56:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?

It would probably be considered a Mixed Market Economy, overall less efficient than Capitalism. But if you think that taxes on the wealthy should be under 55%, the means of production should be private, and you support private businesses, you would pick Capitalism.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
slo1
Posts: 4,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 5:31:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 2:51:44 PM, yoda878 wrote:
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Like higher taxes from the working man to pay for it? What means are you taking about ?
Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?

IE: Support Universal Heathcare for all, except do not allow govnerment to get involved in the daily operations of the execution of it. Something like gov would pay for the premium for a baseline individual heath policy, but the end consumer/citizen would buy his own policy from private enterprise who compete for that business. Just like Medicare Part D.
slo1
Posts: 4,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 5:38:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/22/2012 4:56:36 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?

It would probably be considered a Mixed Market Economy, overall less efficient than Capitalism. But if you think that taxes on the wealthy should be under 55%, the means of production should be private, and you support private businesses, you would pick Capitalism.

In that case, Capitalism. Loosely, I think anytime taxation gets over 35%, when looking at all taxes, it is too repressive. Although, I don't see any need for people who mainly make capital gains as income just pay 15%.

As an after thought, I don't necessarily agree a full captial system would be more efficient than a mixed market for health care unless it were permissible for Dr. and emergency rooms to decline admittance to people who can not pay. I'll have to reasearch that one day.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2012 5:48:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 5:31:10 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 8/22/2012 2:51:44 PM, yoda878 wrote:
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Like higher taxes from the working man to pay for it? What means are you taking about ?
Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?

IE: Support Universal Heathcare for all, except do not allow govnerment to get involved in the daily operations of the execution of it. Something like gov would pay for the premium for a baseline individual heath policy, but the end consumer/citizen would buy his own policy from private enterprise who compete for that business. Just like Medicare Part D.

like a voucher system?
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
Frederick53
Posts: 1,037
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 1:15:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I love how nothing short of a 100% free market is considered to be 'truly capitalist' and everything else is may as well be state socialism.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
TheBossToss
Posts: 154
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 10:16:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Slightly regulated capitalism, PERHAPS with short-term unemployment insurance. Almost completely laissez-faire, though.
Cats. I like cats.
-Me

Pro hasn't upheld his BOP. He forfeited last round. I did stuff.
-Wallstreetatheist

That was real intellectual property theft. They used her idea for their own profit and fame. When I pirate, I am usually downloading textbooks that I cannot afford to purchase on my own and that I do not want my parents to spend money on.
-royalpaladin
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 5:33:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
They are both meaningless words.
The actual difference between economic systems lies in the level of centralization.
There are both both centralized and decentralized Capitalism and Socialism.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 9:13:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Regulated capitalism. Almost no self-proclaimed "free market advocates" want a truly free market.

"First and foremost, a majority of capitalists want the government to interfere with an individuals right to produce and sell goods discovered by another individual. Patent law is perhaps the most blatant violation of laissez-faire; it specifically stops businesses from producing goods which are not of moral relevance like weapons or prostitutes. Drug companies aren't allowed to produce certain molecules without permission from a few scientists whose arguably only accomplishment was mapping out how the molecule is uniquely synthesized. Patent law is economically disruptive; changing the length of time in which patents hold can drastically affect industries.

Likewise, advocates of laissez-faire are strangely comfortable with the regulation of non-excludable goods, goods whose access cannot be restricted. A common example is the government's monopoly over hundreds of FM and AM frequencies. Without government regulation allowing certain radio stations to control certain frequencies in geographic areas, dozens of sources would compete and clog up the airways. Regulating radio frequencies- if regulations are so antithetical to free markets- should be just as abhorred as the regulation of a company that may cut down certain trees in public forests..."

http://progressive.stanford.edu...
Numidious
Posts: 18
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 11:39:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it's a question that is far too general - capitalism in what situation? Socialism in what situation? As it is neither has been tried in the absolute. Also, to what does "socialism" refer to? State socialism? Libertarian socialism? And the same could be said of capitalism - why couldn't capitalism be a group of collectives going against each other?

Personally, if I was to set a structure for a new society, preferably one untouched by other human societies, it would be socialist. Anarcho - Socialism is the natural state of human beings, i.e. when you go on a camping trip, you don't charge your friends for your food. However, we live in a capitalist society and to transition from that to socialism right now would be virtually impossible - after all, capitalism is not just a system, it is a state of mind - and so is libertarian socialism. (I prefer to refer to state socialism as statism, and it's true name is state capitalism.)
Numidious
Posts: 18
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2012 11:42:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/23/2012 5:38:33 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 8/22/2012 4:56:36 PM, Contra wrote:
At 8/22/2012 10:53:37 AM, slo1 wrote:
what is it called if someone wants to include universal Heath Care, unemployment insurance, secondary education, and electric delivery infrastructure to other shared collective responsibilities like national defense and primary education, but use capitalism as a means to make it all more efficient?

Would it be socialism or capitalism for the purpose of this survey?

It would probably be considered a Mixed Market Economy, overall less efficient than Capitalism. But if you think that taxes on the wealthy should be under 55%, the means of production should be private, and you support private businesses, you would pick Capitalism.

In that case, Capitalism. Loosely, I think anytime taxation gets over 35%, when looking at all taxes, it is too repressive. Although, I don't see any need for people who mainly make capital gains as income just pay 15%.

As an after thought, I don't necessarily agree a full captial system would be more efficient than a mixed market for health care unless it were permissible for Dr. and emergency rooms to decline admittance to people who can not pay. I'll have to reasearch that one day.

What you are referring to is social democracy, and that is a system used by the countries with highest GDPs per capita in the world, i.e. the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden etc.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2012 10:20:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Doesn't matter, the entitlement minded people with big chips on their shoulders will always bring everything down to their level. Even if you chose capitalism, socialism will destroy it. It feeds of the succes of others. Socialism is parasitic and strips the individual of all sense of individuality and renders them to nothing more than a number and something to be serviced like a washing machine. Capitalism can not survive once it is infected with the parasite called socialism. There is no cure for socialism. The cure for capitalism is of course socialism.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/27/2012 12:41:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/26/2012 10:20:26 AM, sadolite wrote:
Doesn't matter, the entitlement minded people with big chips on their shoulders will always bring everything down to their level. Even if you chose capitalism, socialism will destroy it. It feeds off the success of others. Socialism is parasitic and strips the individual of all sense of individuality and renders them to nothing more than a number and something to be serviced like a washing machine. Capitalism can not survive once it is infected with the parasite called socialism. There is no cure for socialism. The cure for capitalism is of course socialism.

This is the most beautiful and accurate post you've made. I agree 100%, and stipulate that is the exact reason we cannot have a government.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/27/2012 1:42:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/26/2012 10:20:26 AM, sadolite wrote:
Doesn't matter, the entitlement minded people with big chips on their shoulders will always bring everything down to their level. Even if you chose capitalism, socialism will destroy it. It feeds of the succes of others. Socialism is parasitic and strips the individual of all sense of individuality and renders them to nothing more than a number and something to be serviced like a washing machine. Capitalism can not survive once it is infected with the parasite called socialism. There is no cure for socialism. The cure for capitalism is of course socialism.

Is having a patent office an example of socialism? It means centralized enforcement of intellectual property. The government can FORCE you to not build and sell something just because another human at some point in space-time did the exact same thing.

Would you consider paying for infrastructure like streets socialism? That takes what we call "taxes" to be used for usually improper reasons or paying off our debt. "Theft" of your money to be used by some bureaucrats you kinda-elected is socialist, right?

What about public hospitals? Public Schools? Securities and Exchange Commission?

If you're so convinced of an isolated parasite called "socialism" exists which can identified separately from a "pure" capitalist state, where does this parasite start?

With a little thought, you'll figure out that all but the most anarchic of capitalist states function using many sub-systems and functions that, under a different government, you would call conventional socialist practices.

Or are you like the commies who argue that no real ideological example of their state has ever arisen, thus discounting any empirical evidence to the contrary?