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Looking for Keynesian or socialist resources.

MouthWash
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9/2/2012 11:13:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Any recommendations for books or websites? I'm currently into anarcho-capitalism but I'm trying to get a balanced viewpoint.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
NixonianVolkswagen
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9/3/2012 4:12:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 11:15:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keynesian =/= socialist.

You can look at a macroeconomics textbook for Keynesian economics.

This. Keynes influenced enough of modern economics that you could learn some of his stuff just by reading a textbook, however, if you want current disciples, I guess Krugman or Mankiw is the direction to go in
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Stephen_Hawkins
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9/3/2012 5:21:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Mankiw is a good idea, but essentially any textbook, really, that's used by schools. It's a majority opinion so it's easy to get info on.

Also, Mankiw is neo-Keynesian. Probably makes no difference, but he does make a fair few criticisms of Keynesianism anyway.
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Stephen_Hawkins
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9/3/2012 5:22:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
New Keynesian not neo-Keynesian*
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

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MouthWash
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9/3/2012 9:02:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 11:15:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keynesian =/= socialist.

I understand that. I just want to see what merits socialism may have. I'm not expecting much, but it's my intellectual duty to see (or whatever).
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
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9/3/2012 9:03:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, are there any forums I could go on?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
darkkermit
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9/3/2012 9:25:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 4:12:41 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 9/2/2012 11:15:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keynesian =/= socialist.

You can look at a macroeconomics textbook for Keynesian economics.

This. Keynes influenced enough of modern economics that you could learn some of his stuff just by reading a textbook, however, if you want current disciples, I guess Krugman or Mankiw is the direction to go in

Paul Krugman really isn't really a keynesian. He makes himself to be a keynesian in the mainstream, but his work is in international relations not keynesian economics. Yes, he probably learned a lot of keynesian economics in undergraduate school. However, Mankiw is the one you want because he's actual active in the publication and research and not just a cheerleader for it.
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Wallstreetatheist
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9/3/2012 9:26:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 9:03:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Also, are there any forums I could go on?

Keynesianism is a dying form of economics, so it's going to be difficult to find a forum that discusses it with the vitality of say a Mises.

Try these:
http://www.politicsforum.org...
http://forum.thegradcafe.com...
http://www.econpoint.com...
http://unlawflcombatnt.proboards.com...

Pretty soon you'll be able to fill in for Krugman: http://krugmandebate.com...
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MouthWash
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9/3/2012 9:47:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 9:26:08 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:03:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Also, are there any forums I could go on?

Keynesianism is a dying form of economics, so it's going to be difficult to find a forum that discusses it with the vitality of say a Mises.

Yeah, I guess. Even if I disagree with him I want to read 'The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money' someday. Have you?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Wallstreetatheist
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9/3/2012 9:57:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 9:47:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:26:08 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:03:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Also, are there any forums I could go on?

Keynesianism is a dying form of economics, so it's going to be difficult to find a forum that discusses it with the vitality of say a Mises.

Yeah, I guess. Even if I disagree with him I want to read 'The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money' someday. Have you?

Nope, I'm going to read more into Austrian literature before I read that book. It's available online for free: http://www.marxists.org...
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darkkermit
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9/3/2012 10:06:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 9:57:47 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:47:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:26:08 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/3/2012 9:03:16 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Also, are there any forums I could go on?

Keynesianism is a dying form of economics, so it's going to be difficult to find a forum that discusses it with the vitality of say a Mises.

Yeah, I guess. Even if I disagree with him I want to read 'The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money' someday. Have you?

Nope, I'm going to read more into Austrian literature before I read that book. It's available online for free: http://www.marxists.org...

I must say that the marxist website has a good library and information database. It has much more potential then RevLeft, but doesn't have the discussions and blogs that the mises institute has.
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DanT
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9/4/2012 12:13:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/2/2012 11:15:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keynesian =/= socialist.

You can look at a macroeconomics textbook for Keynesian economics.

this..... Keynesianism is capitalist, but not free market capitalist. Free Market capitalists prefer the Austrian School.
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DanT
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9/4/2012 12:15:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Macroeconomics textbook (college level)
http://catalog.flatworldknowledge.com...

Here is a Microeconomics textbook as well;
http://catalog.flatworldknowledge.com...

Both can be read online for free, or purchased.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Jake-migkillertwo
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9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.
darkkermit
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9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.
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Jake-migkillertwo
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9/4/2012 2:10:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/3/2012 9:25:36 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/3/2012 4:12:41 AM, NixonianVolkswagen wrote:
At 9/2/2012 11:15:28 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keynesian =/= socialist.

You can look at a macroeconomics textbook for Keynesian economics.

This. Keynes influenced enough of modern economics that you could learn some of his stuff just by reading a textbook, however, if you want current disciples, I guess Krugman or Mankiw is the direction to go in

Paul Krugman really isn't really a keynesian. He makes himself to be a keynesian in the mainstream, but his work is in international relations not keynesian economics. Yes, he probably learned a lot of keynesian economics in undergraduate school. However, Mankiw is the one you want because he's actual active in the publication and research and not just a cheerleader for it.

It depends on how we define our terms. If we define "Keynesianism" as belief in certain models to explain the economy, Krugman is absolutely a Keynesian. If we define Keynesian as someone who uses these models to do actual research in the field of economics, then I guess we could say that Krugman is not really a Keynesian in the same way that Alan Blinder or Greg Mankiw are "New Keynesians",but the difference is really pedantic.

Krugman is not a Keynesian in the sense that most of his work in international economics uses a classical framework (price flexibility, marginal utility analysis, etc.) to describe patterns of international trade and its effect on income distribution. But some of his analysis in balance-of-payments crises do make use of Keynesian economics.
Jake-migkillertwo
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9/4/2012 2:15:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.

I'm about halfway through it. Yeah no doubt it's difficult as f-k, but the insights, especially in the first part, are extremely valuable to clarify and settle the debate on international trade. I never got anything nearly as useful in a micro or macro textbook, which usually just have snippets to the effect of "comparative advantage produces gains from trade, therefore everyone everywhere should eliminate tariffs." That sort of analysis only works when you assume a one-factor economy, when international trade can easily have (potentially) adverse effects on the distribution of income between factors of production.
darkkermit
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9/4/2012 2:23:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:15:34 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.

I'm about halfway through it. Yeah no doubt it's difficult as f-k, but the insights, especially in the first part, are extremely valuable to clarify and settle the debate on international trade. I never got anything nearly as useful in a micro or macro textbook, which usually just have snippets to the effect of "comparative advantage produces gains from trade, therefore everyone everywhere should eliminate tariffs." That sort of analysis only works when you assume a one-factor economy, when international trade can easily have (potentially) adverse effects on the distribution of income between factors of production.

Wow, that's really impressive! Your probably the most economically literate person on DDO.
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Jake-migkillertwo
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9/4/2012 2:39:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:23:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:15:34 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.

I'm about halfway through it. Yeah no doubt it's difficult as f-k, but the insights, especially in the first part, are extremely valuable to clarify and settle the debate on international trade. I never got anything nearly as useful in a micro or macro textbook, which usually just have snippets to the effect of "comparative advantage produces gains from trade, therefore everyone everywhere should eliminate tariffs." That sort of analysis only works when you assume a one-factor economy, when international trade can easily have (potentially) adverse effects on the distribution of income between factors of production.

Wow, that's really impressive! Your probably the most economically literate person on DDO.

Assuming that post wasn't sarcasm, thx, but it doesn't really mean a lot considering how tiny the econ community on DDO is LOL
darkkermit
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9/4/2012 3:19:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:39:26 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:23:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:15:34 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.

I'm about halfway through it. Yeah no doubt it's difficult as f-k, but the insights, especially in the first part, are extremely valuable to clarify and settle the debate on international trade. I never got anything nearly as useful in a micro or macro textbook, which usually just have snippets to the effect of "comparative advantage produces gains from trade, therefore everyone everywhere should eliminate tariffs." That sort of analysis only works when you assume a one-factor economy, when international trade can easily have (potentially) adverse effects on the distribution of income between factors of production.

Wow, that's really impressive! Your probably the most economically literate person on DDO.

Assuming that post wasn't sarcasm, thx, but it doesn't really mean a lot considering how tiny the econ community on DDO is LOL

wasn't meant to be sarcasm. I doubt that any of the DDO community that claims to be "economically literate" and calls Krugman an idiot could go through a book like that. Just to understand it requires an understanding of calculus which only a few members of DDO likely understand
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Wallstreetatheist
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9/4/2012 3:32:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 3:19:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:

wasn't meant to be sarcasm. I doubt that any of the DDO community that claims to be "economically literate" and calls Krugman an idiot could go through a book like that. Just to understand it requires an understanding of calculus which only a few members of DDO likely understand

4 on AP Calculus BC, 4 on AP Calculus AB, 5 on AP Stats, 5 on AP Microeconomics and 5 on AP Macroeconomics. I had to learn a lot of Keynesian theory in High School. I've since switched to the economics of liberty. The opposite happened to Jake.
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darkkermit
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9/4/2012 3:35:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 3:32:33 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 9/4/2012 3:19:34 PM, darkkermit wrote:

wasn't meant to be sarcasm. I doubt that any of the DDO community that claims to be "economically literate" and calls Krugman an idiot could go through a book like that. Just to understand it requires an understanding of calculus which only a few members of DDO likely understand

4 on AP Calculus BC, 4 on AP Calculus AB, 5 on AP Stats, 5 on AP Microeconomics and 5 on AP Macroeconomics. I had to learn a lot of Keynesian theory in High School. I've since switched to the economics of liberty. The opposite happened to Jake.

Quite impressive. Still, I'm sure that the microeconomics and macroecnomics you took didn't require calculus. Combining calculus + economics = bad@ss.

You could probably get through Krugman's book though.

So you've studied keynesian economcs, so your quite aware of the theory. Quite curious why you rejected the theory.
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darkkermit
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9/4/2012 3:36:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd actually say that the austrian school is quite similar to the keynesian economics school. They both recognize that changes in the interest rate have effects on economic output.
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DanT
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9/6/2012 9:19:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/4/2012 2:08:21 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/4/2012 2:06:21 PM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
You're an anarcho-capitalist, but you want a balanced viewpoint by looking at socialist economists?

You, as a radical right-winger, are not going to get a balanced or approximately true view on politics/economics by looking at the other radical pole of politics, which incidentally is nearly indistinguishable from your own position, except on extremely pedantic details (When you agree that the current capitalist system is wholly broken and that the United States is not a legitimate entity, you're advocating the same ends).

If you want some good Keynesian resources, any intermediate-level economics textbook will be fine. My top 3 favorites are "International Economics: Theory and Policy" by Paul Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, "Macroeconomics" by N. Gregory Mankiw, and "The Economics of Money, Banking, and Financial Markets" by Frederic Mishkin. I've skimmed parts of Krugman and Wells' "Microeconomics", and it seems pretty good, much more balanced and rigorous than any of the former's columns.

Did you actually read the book? Its kind of difficult reading.

Funny I have a book also titled "International Economics Theory and Policy", but it's by Steve Suranovic
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Jake-migkillertwo
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9/7/2012 10:41:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 6:15:48 AM, Cermank wrote:
Try Kapitalism 101 videos and David Harvey's lectures on youtube for understanding Marxism.

http://www.amazon.com...

WAAAAY better intro to marxism.
Cermank
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9/7/2012 2:39:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/7/2012 10:41:52 AM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 9/7/2012 6:15:48 AM, Cermank wrote:
Try Kapitalism 101 videos and David Harvey's lectures on youtube for understanding Marxism.

http://www.amazon.com...

WAAAAY better intro to marxism.

I was thinking of free resources. :D

But yeah, that is another good book. But personally, I'd recommend reading his own works before reading different interpretations of his works.