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Bankrupting Social Security

Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 5:08:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You are missing the point. There will be a larger cash flow problem (started the last year ago). More money will be paid out than received. This will cause our debt to grow and our economy to weaken.

And, private accounts are safer and have a much higher return over time, while strengthening the economy, giving employees an incentive to care about their businesses' success, and making most citizens have a sound retirement balance.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

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Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 5:15:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Yes, unless you end social security.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.
Open borders debate:
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imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:19:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.

Ok so then how does social security possibly go bankerupt when the US will keep it in place no matter what?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 5:21:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:19:13 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.

Ok so then how does social security possibly go bankerupt when the US will keep it in place no matter what?

The trust fund runs out. The trust fund is what all of your guys' FICA social security taxes go to (unless you are wealthy). It will be technically bankrupt by 2037.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:21:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:19:13 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.

Ok so then how does social security possibly go bankerupt when the US will keep it in place no matter what?

The trust fund runs out. The trust fund is what all of your guys' FICA social security taxes go to (unless you are wealthy). It will be technically bankrupt by 2037.

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/14/2012 5:24:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As productivity increases, so does standard of living- which ultimately translates to the standard of living of the retirees increasing (as it has in the last centuryish of the program- the rate of pay doesn't stay constant).
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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9/14/2012 5:24:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:24:06 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
As productivity increases, so does standard of living- which ultimately translates to the standard of living of the retirees increasing (as it has in the last centuryish of the program- the rate of pay doesn't stay constant).

So it's myth.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:21:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:19:13 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.

Ok so then how does social security possibly go bankerupt when the US will keep it in place no matter what?

The trust fund runs out. The trust fund is what all of your guys' FICA social security taxes go to (unless you are wealthy). It will be technically bankrupt by 2037.

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:21:52 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:19:13 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:16:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:14:33 PM, imabench wrote:
Pardon my possible ignorance, but since Social Security is an entitlement program doesnt that mean the US will have to continue to fund it even if it is running a debt?

Its mandatory spending, so yes. We're running a debt now and social security checks are still being paid.

Ok so then how does social security possibly go bankerupt when the US will keep it in place no matter what?

The trust fund runs out. The trust fund is what all of your guys' FICA social security taxes go to (unless you are wealthy). It will be technically bankrupt by 2037.

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 5:56:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.

what if we adequately manage to fund them?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 6:05:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:56:28 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.

what if we adequately manage to fund them?

If you double taxation levels, then it would work over time.

http://www.savingthedream.org...

Obviously though, that is politically and economically a dead end road.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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9/14/2012 6:08:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 6:05:39 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:56:28 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.

what if we adequately manage to fund them?

If you double taxation levels, then it would work over time.

http://www.savingthedream.org...

Obviously though, that is politically and economically a dead end road.

you know you could also raise the age limit to accept social security or possibly put a cap limit on how much you can get from the system or just tweak a couple of taxes rather then just believe what a conservative think tank believes it the only way to fix it....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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9/14/2012 6:15:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 6:08:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 6:05:39 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:56:28 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.

what if we adequately manage to fund them?

If you double taxation levels, then it would work over time.

http://www.savingthedream.org...

Obviously though, that is politically and economically a dead end road.

you know you could also raise the age limit to accept social security or possibly put a cap limit on how much you can get from the system or just tweak a couple of taxes rather then just believe what a conservative think tank believes it the only way to fix it....

Okay. You can do this (I don't like the plan mentioned by the Heritage Foundation anyway).

However, social security has many drawbacks relative to private accounts.

This picture shows based on the amount expected from varying retirement options, based on their annual average return. (http://www.debate.org...)

As you can see, private accounts are hugely more successful. Social security has an annual return of 1.2%. Stocks have a rate of 6.85%. This will result nicely, many people with private accounts would get around $700,000 in retirement benefits instead of the average $300,000 people get today.

And with this huge improvement in conditions for the wealthy, you stimulate consumption and therefore investment and the economy, and these private accounts will cause businesses to expand with new capital.

People will actually get something if their company does well (assuming their employer has shares on the market).

And, it will go a far way in reducing our debt, spending, gov't power, and hugely improving the economy. Want to debate it in a few weeks?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
slo1
Posts: 4,353
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9/15/2012 2:41:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:51:22 PM, Contra wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:48:56 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:46:46 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:39:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:37:37 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:23:29 PM, imabench wrote:

Wont the government just bail it out? If its already running a deficit and the US keeps funding it then it will surely keep getting funded if the trust runs out of reserves right?

http://www.google.com...

Look man the inner workings of Social Security is the one thing I dont know sh*t about (That and what its like to have sex)

You don't pay off the unearthly amount of debt on your credit card with another credit card.

Isnt that what the US government has been doing this whole time?

And that's why we are screwed if we don't end entitlements.

Yeah, we just need to build massive gas chambers and crematoriums to get rid of those pesky seniors that mainly live via social security and medicare.

Or

How about we use common sense and fix the programs to balance the rising costs due to the aging population bubble with the effects on free enterprise and find a way to continue to grow productivity and success for all.

I was extremely disappointed when Bush's push to start prioritization of SS was a bust. At the very least it really needs to move out of being managed by the gov so we can get better visibility to the finances.

The payroll tax for SS was over collecting for decades and the overages were used to purchase US gov bonds. There is just too much of a conflict of interest with the government buying government bonds. Although we are past that because we pay more than we collect now.

Fixing means get more people working. Take the responsibility of paying for healthcare off the companies backs along with other smart business taxation moves and we can grow jobs like no other country on earth.