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Socialism, Capitalism, and Statism

Numidious
Posts: 18
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9/20/2012 9:15:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why does everyone dismiss the first, love the second and hate the third? Why is the third so often confused with both the first and second? I'm interested in your opinions. I'm going to experiment a little here - I won't debate, I'm only going to ask questions.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/20/2012 9:30:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:15:21 PM, Numidious wrote:
Why does everyone dismiss the first, love the second and hate the third? Why is the third so often confused with both the first and second? I'm interested in your opinions. I'm going to experiment a little here - I won't debate, I'm only going to ask questions.

Socialism and capitalism can both exist without the State (strictly speaking) or with it. Socialism that exists with the State would be the Soviet Union (sh1t). Capitalism that exists without the State would be the U.S. (less sh1tty but still sh1t). Socialism that exists without the State would be libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. Capitalism that exists without the State is market anarchism or anarcho-capitalism. Your acting like you can compare these three systems as equals when the third is merely a non-necessary adjective to describe the first two.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Numidious
Posts: 18
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9/20/2012 9:46:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If I put it a different way, i.e. co - operative, private, and public enterprise, which would you be most in favour of? Why?

Where in the Soviet Union did collective enterprise exist? What are the similarities between socialism (collective enterprise) and statism (government enterprise) that make one relative to the other? Why is capitalism (in your opinion) good? Why can't collectives and private enterprise exist together?

Remembering that I have seen this user on other threads, why is the state so evil? What makes the state different from monopolizing corporations?
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/20/2012 10:00:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/20/2012 9:46:17 PM, Numidious wrote:
If I put it a different way, i.e. co - operative, private, and public enterprise, which would you be most in favour of? Why?

Where in the Soviet Union did collective enterprise exist?

I don't know what you mean by collective but if socialism is supposed to mean centralized public control of the means of production then the Soviet Union was pretty close, at least originally. Later on it evolved into basically State capitalism. They swapped out bourgeoisie @ssholes for Communist party member @ssholes.

What are the similarities between socialism (collective enterprise) and statism (government enterprise) that make one relative to the other?

Socialism doesn't necessitate statism but usually "socialism" that has existed has been statist. I only know of a few AnCommunist systems that have existed so when someone says socialism I usually assume they're referring to State socialism.

Why is capitalism (in your opinion) good?

It depends on how you define capitalism. If you define it as anything that has ever existed then I wouldn't say that. If you mean a system of voluntary exchange then it would seem self evident. Let people be free to form cooperative or communal associations if they wish. I'm somewhat in line with the mutualist conception of a free market as being a form of socialism. The way I conceive of capitalism though is a State acting on behalf of the capital class which doesn't float well.

Why can't collectives and private enterprise exist together?

They can and I think they would under an anarchic system. Not everyone likes corporations. Not everyone likes cooperatives. I would personally support cooperative associations competing with each other on a for-profit basis i.e., cooperatives or syndicates organized democratically but competing with others of the same type (for the purposes of rational allocation).

Remembering that I have seen this user on other threads, why is the state so evil? What makes the state different from monopolizing corporations?

You're approaching the issue wrong. You're assuming that monopolizing corporations would likely exist without a State acting in its favor. I don't think that's the case. I think intellectual property rights enforcement, efficiency problems in centralized enterprises, corporate favoritism via the State and public choice problems, etc. are a lot of what has historically allowed for large corporations to form, not a free market. So I don't like monopolizing corporations or the State really.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.