Total Posts:22|Showing Posts:1-22
Jump to topic:

Irritating Trend

royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:34:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I saw an article today that explains that although there is demand for new medical staff, hospitals are demanding that only people with experience apply. This makes no sense to me. If they need staff, why are they limiting themselves to people with experience instead of just new grads?

I do not think this is just related to the medical field. This past summer, I filled out 50 job applications for minimum wage jobs and only had one interview. The three other people who bothered to respond all turned me down on the basis that I had no experience, and one store offered me a job after I had already returned to school (which is in another state entirely). Why are companies doing this if they have openings? Are they trying to destroy everybody's lives?
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:35:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Like, there is a shortage of doctors and nurses, but they won't hire recent grads from nursing school because they don't have experience? How does someone get experience if nobody is willing to him or her?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:42:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hospitals aren't the only place that employ doctors. They do tend to be among the more expensive ones, though.

Experience = efficiency (on average)
efficiency = lower expense
lower expense = lower price

Makes sense. There are plenty of clinics and HMO facilities that aren't hospitals where new med school grads can gain experience.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:45:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 1:42:02 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Hospitals aren't the only place that employ doctors. They do tend to be among the more expensive ones, though.

Experience = efficiency (on average)
efficiency = lower expense
lower expense = lower price

If they don't hire anybody because there is a shortage, their efficiency is 0. Nobody magically gains efficiency; you have to be trained. If nobody is willing to bite the bullet and hire a new grad, everybody suffers.
Makes sense. There are plenty of clinics and HMO facilities that aren't hospitals where new med school grads can gain experience.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:46:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think this is the result of higher unemployment where employers are able to be more choosey. I applied for a position and was told that I didn't have incredibly specific experience that was just absurd. It wasn't about being qualified, but they are now able to filter out droves of people so that they can find the one candidate that falls into what they exactly are looking for.

Personally, a worse trend (IMO) is the rate of pay that has been decreasing across the board. Again, this is a mark of higher unemployment, where they can do this.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:49:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 1:46:06 PM, innomen wrote:
I think this is the result of higher unemployment where employers are able to be more choosey. I applied for a position and was told that I didn't have incredibly specific experience that was just absurd. It wasn't about being qualified, but they are now able to filter out droves of people so that they can find the one candidate that falls into what they exactly are looking for.

Personally, a worse trend (IMO) is the rate of pay that has been decreasing across the board. Again, this is a mark of higher unemployment, where they can do this.

I get that they can do this, but if very few people with experience are applying because they all have jobs and there is a job shortage, how can they afford to not hire a new grad and train him or her?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 1:54:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 1:45:15 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:42:02 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Hospitals aren't the only place that employ doctors. They do tend to be among the more expensive ones, though.

Experience = efficiency (on average)
efficiency = lower expense
lower expense = lower price

If they don't hire anybody because there is a shortage, their efficiency is 0. Nobody magically gains efficiency; you have to be trained. If nobody is willing to bite the bullet and hire a new grad, everybody suffers.
Makes sense. There are plenty of clinics and HMO facilities that aren't hospitals where new med school grads can gain experience.

Like I said, hospitals aren't the only places which employ doctors.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 2:01:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 1:54:29 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:45:15 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:42:02 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Hospitals aren't the only place that employ doctors. They do tend to be among the more expensive ones, though.

Experience = efficiency (on average)
efficiency = lower expense
lower expense = lower price

If they don't hire anybody because there is a shortage, their efficiency is 0. Nobody magically gains efficiency; you have to be trained. If nobody is willing to bite the bullet and hire a new grad, everybody suffers.
Makes sense. There are plenty of clinics and HMO facilities that aren't hospitals where new med school grads can gain experience.

Like I said, hospitals aren't the only places which employ doctors.

My question was about hospitals and not about places that don't give people with loans any money.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 2:27:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 2:19:21 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So the jobs you were applying for were all in a different state than your college?

Yeah, because I was looking for summer work. They didn't know where I was going to college though because I didn't tell them.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 3:38:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Surprised that this wasn't about sexism. Maybe royal is getting therapy.

Inb4 a comment about me being a dropout.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 3:55:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 2:27:50 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 2:19:21 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So the jobs you were applying for were all in a different state than your college?

Yeah, because I was looking for summer work. They didn't know where I was going to college though because I didn't tell them.

There's the problem. Companies don't like hiring seasonal employees. They prefer someone that can stay with/commit to the company for a longer period of time. Most other people who apply to a job plan on being there indefinently, so that makes it hard for a seasonal application to stand out.

Another potential problem is that your schedule is hard to accomodate. If you say you can't work weekends, thats a turnoff because weekends are the busiest days for most companies. Similar problems exist if you say you can only work this day, this day, and this day, and only at this time to this time. Being able to have an open schedule should put you at the front of the line for consideration. I don't know if this problem actually applies to you, but its worth knowing either way.

Obviously, those 2 problems aren't within your control because if you have to spend the summer out of state, you have to spend the summer out of state. But regardless, thats probably why 46 places didn't call. The best chance to get a seasonal job would be to get a referral by knowing someone who works there. Also, it would help to tell them the college you're at. Employers aren't going to overlook someone if they go to Columbia. Every application I've seen asks you to put your education on it anyway.

As for the three companies saying that you don't have enough experience...what companies are these exactly? I can't think of many minimum wage jobs that require a lot of experience.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 8:16:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 2:01:14 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:54:29 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:45:15 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 1:42:02 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
Hospitals aren't the only place that employ doctors. They do tend to be among the more expensive ones, though.

Experience = efficiency (on average)
efficiency = lower expense
lower expense = lower price

If they don't hire anybody because there is a shortage, their efficiency is 0. Nobody magically gains efficiency; you have to be trained. If nobody is willing to bite the bullet and hire a new grad, everybody suffers.
Makes sense. There are plenty of clinics and HMO facilities that aren't hospitals where new med school grads can gain experience.

Like I said, hospitals aren't the only places which employ doctors.

My question was about hospitals and not about places that don't give people with loans any money.

The idea that you can't get any experience is what is faulty. As said, you can get experience outside of the hospital (a nursing home or an abortion clinic, for example), and then take that experience to apply at the hospital.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 8:17:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 3:38:01 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Surprised that this wasn't about sexism. Maybe royal is getting therapy.

Inb4 a comment about me being a dropout.

What a wonderful contribution you've just made to this thread. I can see your life choices are paying off.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 9:20:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is very irritating that nearly ever non-minimum wage job out there requires experience in it. And there's no way to get the experience because you can't get hired.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 9:25:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 3:55:00 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 1/14/2013 2:27:50 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/14/2013 2:19:21 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
So the jobs you were applying for were all in a different state than your college?

Yeah, because I was looking for summer work. They didn't know where I was going to college though because I didn't tell them.

There's the problem. Companies don't like hiring seasonal employees. They prefer someone that can stay with/commit to the company for a longer period of time. Most other people who apply to a job plan on being there indefinently, so that makes it hard for a seasonal application to stand out.

Another potential problem is that your schedule is hard to accomodate. If you say you can't work weekends, thats a turnoff because weekends are the busiest days for most companies. Similar problems exist if you say you can only work this day, this day, and this day, and only at this time to this time. Being able to have an open schedule should put you at the front of the line for consideration. I don't know if this problem actually applies to you, but its worth knowing either way.

I always specified 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM for every day of the week. I guess that could have been a problem.
Obviously, those 2 problems aren't within your control because if you have to spend the summer out of state, you have to spend the summer out of state. But regardless, thats probably why 46 places didn't call. The best chance to get a seasonal job would be to get a referral by knowing someone who works there. Also, it would help to tell them the college you're at. Employers aren't going to overlook someone if they go to Columbia. Every application I've seen asks you to put your education on it anyway.

As for the three companies saying that you don't have enough experience...what companies are these exactly? I can't think of many minimum wage jobs that require a lot of experience.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 10:05:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:20:06 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It is very irritating that nearly ever non-minimum wage job out there requires experience in it. And there's no way to get the experience because you can't get hired.

Hit up a temp agency. They often can find entry level jobs that can get you some experience so that you can later get your foot in the door. Though be prepared to get no benefits (you'll be lucky to even get sick time off or holiday pay) and get paid about 30 - 40% less than what the company you're working for is paying the temp agency for finding you.

Also, be prepared for the no warning after work phone call of "hey, you're no longer working there, no reason given, we'll start looking for new work for you."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/14/2013 10:33:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 9:25:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:

I always specified 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM for every day of the week. I guess that could have been a problem.

Nah, those are decent hours. Everyone knows the term "9 to 5 job" for a reason.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 3:56:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 1:34:34 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I saw an article today that explains that although there is demand for new medical staff, hospitals are demanding that only people with experience apply. This makes no sense to me. If they need staff, why are they limiting themselves to people with experience instead of just new grads?

A big reason is probably insurance. People with no real-life experience are prone to making mistakes, and this means lives potentially ruined/ended, and the lawsuits that come with it.

I do not think this is just related to the medical field. This past summer, I filled out 50 job applications for minimum wage jobs and only had one interview. The three other people who bothered to respond all turned me down on the basis that I had no experience, and one store offered me a job after I had already returned to school (which is in another state entirely). Why are companies doing this if they have openings? Are they trying to destroy everybody's lives?

They are also trying to find people that fit their needs. Someone going to school out of state generally isn't a good new hire, as they will be trained (which costs money) only to leave after the summer.

Furthermore, have you ever heard the term "overqualified"? It means "why should I hire you at $X/hr, when you will likely leave if and when you get a job you are qualified for at $2X/hr?". Labor is an investment, and you are too risky with your fancy degree in progress and limited availibilty, both in hours/wk and sparatic lengths of time off (the months you are at or away from college).

One more factor to consider is the sheer volume of applicants. For any job opening, there may be hundreds of applicants, and they will screen out "bad" ones by various criteria, one such criteria is no experience. If and when the economy is booming again, it will be easier to get a job, as there is less of a labor pool to choose from. After 100 applicants, they may still accept them, but they may just stop looking at any new ones.

Like, there is a shortage of doctors and nurses, but they won't hire recent grads from nursing school because they don't have experience? How does someone get experience if nobody is willing to him or her?

Internships, mentors, and luck.
I have an A.A.S. in accounting and getting an interview is difficult, even through temp agencies. Part of that is probably the economy, with full-time very experienced accountants taking my entry-level job opportunities.

This is why I started my own company (an option many college grads are choosing); it ought to look good on a resume, even if my only client is my wife.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 4:05:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/14/2013 10:33:09 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 1/14/2013 9:25:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:

I always specified 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM for every day of the week. I guess that could have been a problem.

Nah, those are decent hours. Everyone knows the term "9 to 5 job" for a reason.

True, but if these are minimum wage jobs, chances are they are not looking for these hours, as the senior staff has them; they are likely to need staff in the evening hours. This is assuming restaurants or retail, as I don't know any other jobs that usually pay minimum wage.

I have worked over 40 jobs, and most of the shifts I have worked were not 9-5, they were evening or overnights. 9-5 usually refers to "normal" businesses, like banks, offices, and other places where "business casual" or higher is the dress code.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 4:25:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
One more thing, Royal...

Your profile says you are 19, and you say you have no job history and you do not mention college on the applications. From a hiring manager's standpoint, why would you interest me? Stereotypes, maybe, but this information tells me either:

1. You are lazy and never needed/wanted a job before, this speaks to your potential work ethic and longevity within the company
2. You are lying about something, either school or job history (e.g. not telling me your only other job because you were fired)
3. There is something wrong with you, so no one has ever hired you before, like you have a bad attitude even during the interview
4. You didn't work while in school because you couldn't handle it, which suggests you are not too bright.
5. You didn't work while in school because you wanted to do well, which is odd you are not going to college.

While there are many realities that are ignored, these are the likely scenarios that are going through the hiring manager's mind when they see your application, and chances are, these are the most likely scenarios by far, so why bother attempting to find the exception?

You need to express yourself in a way that gets you noticed enough to land an interview. It isn't fair, but it is what it is. Keep in mind, you probably fit into #5.

I would wager, if you put on your application you are going to school, you would get some interviews, if it weren't for your school being out of state.
My work here is, finally, done.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/16/2013 4:53:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You realize places like hospitals and clinics want people who can work that night shift or the day shift. 8 to 5 only is not going to cut it.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush