Total Posts:85|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Libertarians R Stupid #3 - Resource Markets

malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 9:17:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

So was the slinky.

Those markets (regulated) can have competition enter them, chiefly because of the speed that technology becomes obsolete, but also because no one is directly blocking entry into the market. (and, Samsung/Android are greatly eating into Apple's market)

Go compete with DeBeers...I dare ya. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE DEBEERS CONTROLS THE RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD SELL AS THEIR COMPETITOR.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 9:18:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

BUT - if you disagree with my premise - DEBATE ME.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 9:50:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

Cmon bro. The iphone is not a non-renewable resource.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 9:56:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:50:51 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

Cmon bro. The iphone is not a non-renewable resource.

Tell that to an Apple fanatic and you're liable to have your head bitten off.

It doesn't matter what they rebut with...it's all quite easy to diffuse with proper economic theory....and, of course, reality.

There are even renewable resources in this category which have been made non-renewable. If the demand curve is inelastic enough and the market is free enough, someone will find a way to permanently corner it.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:03:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:50:51 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

Cmon bro. The iphone is not a non-renewable resource.

Exactly.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:04:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:03:38 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:50:51 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

Cmon bro. The iphone is not a non-renewable resource.

Exactly.

Exactly...why stay on point when you can try to obfuscate and still have your point be obliterated?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:33:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:17:04 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

So was the slinky.

Those markets (regulated) can have competition enter them, chiefly because of the speed that technology becomes obsolete, but also because no one is directly blocking entry into the market. (and, Samsung/Android are greatly eating into Apple's market)

Go compete with DeBeers...I dare ya. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE DEBEERS CONTROLS THE RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD SELL AS THEIR COMPETITOR.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:40:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:33:31 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:17:04 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 9:03:48 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 8:36:23 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Absent regulations, markets for non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves will become monopolies/oligopolies.

Example #1 - DeBeers (a Diamond Monopoly is forever)

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

So was the slinky.

Those markets (regulated) can have competition enter them, chiefly because of the speed that technology becomes obsolete, but also because no one is directly blocking entry into the market. (and, Samsung/Android are greatly eating into Apple's market)

Go compete with DeBeers...I dare ya. YOU CAN'T BECAUSE DEBEERS CONTROLS THE RESOURCES THAT YOU WOULD SELL AS THEIR COMPETITOR.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

The rapid development of the Mir mine had worried De Beers company, which at that time was distributing most of the world's diamonds. De Beers had to buy Russian diamonds in order to control the market price, and therefore needed to know as much as possible about the Russian mining developments. In the 1970s, De Beers requested permission to visit the Mir mine. Permission was granted under condition that Russian experts would visit De Beers diamond mines in South Africa. De Beers executive Philip Oppenheimer and chief geologist Barry Hawthorne arrived in Moscow in the summer of 1976. They were intentionally delayed in Moscow by the arrangement of a series of meetings and lavish banquets with Soviet geologists, mineralogists, engineers and mine managers. When Oppenheimer and Hawthorne finally reached the Mir mine, their visas were about to expire, so that they could only have 20 minutes at the Mir mine. Even that short time was sufficient to get some important details. For example, the Russians did not use water during the ore processing at all, which was astonishing to De Beers. The reason was that water would freeze most of the year, and dry crushing was used instead. De Beers also overestimated the size of the mine's pit.

http://geology.com...

case rested.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:42:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 9:17:04 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

So was the iphone.

So was the slinky.

Exactly
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:43:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
DeBeers has so much juice that they FORCED Russia to let them inspect their mine.

DeBeers buys Russian diamonds already, and Russian diamond production is dwarfed by the African production in mines directly controlled by DeBeers.

It's like you provided sourcing to prove my point...thank you.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:46:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:43:57 AM, malcolmxy wrote:

DeBeers buys Russian diamonds already, and Russian diamond production is dwarfed by the African production in mines directly controlled by DeBeers.
Exactly.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:47:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What makes you think diamond companies operate under a free system? They use slave labor. There is no reason to think under a free system, that other firms would not undercut an abusive diamond company. How would anyone stop them?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:47:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:40:32 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yes, Russia has mines, and yet two countries in Africa (controlled by DeBeers), when combined, DOUBLE Russia's total diamond output, all by their lonesome. This doesn't even account for the rest of Africa or the fact that Russia has no option but to sell to DeBeers.

Can I have a smart Libertarian take over for you now, please?
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:48:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:49:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:47:09 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
What makes you think diamond companies operate under a free system? They use slave labor. There is no reason to think under a free system, that other firms would not undercut an abusive diamond company. How would anyone stop them?

ALL COMPANIES would use slave labor if it was to their economic advantage. THAT'S THE POINT OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS. TO STOP THAT SH!T (you don't think a regional warlord in a stateless system wouldn't put forth the EXACT same thing?)
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:50:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:48:06 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

US Patent laws, dipsh!t.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:50:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:48:06 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

But it's not a monopoly. Are you really claiming that there should be no patent legistlation? Have fun with absolutely ZERO innovation.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:51:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:49:40 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:47:09 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
What makes you think diamond companies operate under a free system? They use slave labor. There is no reason to think under a free system, that other firms would not undercut an abusive diamond company. How would anyone stop them?

ALL COMPANIES would use slave labor if it was to their economic advantage. THAT'S THE POINT OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS. TO STOP THAT SH!T (you don't think a regional warlord in a stateless system wouldn't put forth the EXACT same thing?)

Send in the drones!
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:52:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh dear, you seem to be completely uneducated on what libertarians believe. What makes you think that I support slavery?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:52:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:50:15 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:48:06 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

US Patent laws, dipsh!t.

Perhaps you missed the big lawsuit between Apple and Samsung???
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:52:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:52:05 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Oh dear, you seem to be completely uneducated on what libertarians believe. What makes you think that I support slavery?

I don't believe you support it. I also KNOW you can't stop it in an unregulated environment.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:53:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:52:06 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:50:15 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:48:06 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:45:23 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
The iphone cannot be seen as something a firm can have a monopoly on because it is the product of a firm. Monopolies refer to fields, not products.

There is no single authority (i.e. the state, government) which caused this monopoly. It is entirely market created, and can't be blamed on anyone else.

US Patent laws, dipsh!t.

Perhaps you missed the big lawsuit between Apple and Samsung???

Patent laws, overall, promote innovation and help the economy. Denying this is foolish.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:54:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/16/2013 10:52:48 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/16/2013 10:52:05 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Oh dear, you seem to be completely uneducated on what libertarians believe. What makes you think that I support slavery?

I don't believe you support it. I also KNOW you can't stop it in an unregulated environment.

I didn't say I support unregulated anything. I support a society in which citizens are free to keep what they produce, but are not allowed to infringe on another's right to do the same.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/16/2013 10:59:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Without patent laws, we'd literally have NO r and d spending on pretty much all technology, stagnating the economy. Say goodbye to anything that involves R and D if you don't want patent laws. That means no more pills for your insanity :( sad day