Total Posts:32|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Financial Crisis and the Free Market Cure

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:12:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm watching John Allison, the President and CEO of the Cato Institute and also former CEO and Chairman of BB&T, speak at WVU today. His speech is the title of this thread. I'll try to live DDO this speech.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:14:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Government owns monetary system
-Sabotages natural market correction process
-Unlimited federal debt/print money/inflation
-Reduced capital requirements for banks
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:15:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Government policy as causation FDIC Insurance
-Destroys market discipline
-Start-up banks: Atlanta
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:18:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Government Policy as Causation: Housing Policy
Increase home ownership above natural market rate
Tax policy
CRA/Affordable Housing / Subprime:NY Times 9/30/99
Fannie Mac / Fannie Mae: Government sponsored enterprises
-Would not exist in free market
Leverage 1000 to 1
$5.5 trillion ($2 Trillion subprime/affordable housing)
Government did have to "bailout" - implied guaranteed
Politics
Freddie / Fannie primary cause of housing/financial problems
Belief that housing prices never fall: based on government policy
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:21:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
FDIC Insurance Makes "Pick-a-Payment" Mortgages Possible
-Owe $1,000 interest per month; only pay $500 each month you owe more on your home
-Targeted at high growth markets: CA, FL, etc
-Golden West (Wachovia) / WaMu / Countrywide ONLY POSSIBLE WITH FDIC INSURANCE
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:23:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What are possible cures?
-Cut government spending: spending money we do not have on things that we do not need to be done will not raise our stndard of living
-Radically reduce regulations: destruction of creative thinking
-Low/Neutral tax rates
-Fed must create "sound money / Gold standard"
-Carefully privatize: Social security, medicare, freddie fannie
-Let market correct: do not rescue any more companies or homeowners (CitiGroup)
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:25:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Altruism
-Affordable housing
-Redistribute from productive to non-productive
-No one has a right to their own life

Pragmatism
-Short term: what works: Negative amortization mortgages worked for a number of years
-Irrationality
-Lack of integrity

Free lunch mentality
-Social Security
-Medicare

Lack of Personal Responsibility
-Death of Democracies: tyranny of majority
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:29:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Deepest Cure is Philosophical

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness
-Right to your life and your happiness
-Personal responsibility
-No "free" lunches

-Demands and rewards rationality / self-discipline
-Pursuit of each individual's long term rational self-interest in the context of the "Trader principle" --creating win/win relationships
-Atlas Shrugged

-Life expectancy is associated with human rights: life, liberty, property
-Man's nature is that we have to think for ourselves
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:32:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Acting in one's rational, long-term self-interest is conducive to human flourishing.

Taking advantage of someone is not selfish, it's self-destructive. No one will trust you.
Self-sacrifice: Do you have as much right to your life as anybody else has to their life?
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:38:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What happens in the long term?

-Depends on us
-Continuation of altruism / pragmatism / free lunch mentality will ultimately result in economic disaster: forces in motion to make disaster possible: social security deficit. Medicare deficits, unfunded gov't pension plans, government operating deficits, irrational foreign policy: demographics: failed K-12 education system.

-A return to individual rights is the solution...
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:42:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Purpose - Values - Happiness

The foundation for happiness is real self-esteem:
-It is fundamentally self-confidence, you gain by from living life with integrity.
-The single biggest impact on self-esteem is your work (e.g. education, employment, raising your kids, etc).
-Take a brick layer who works a difficult shift every day. He goes home and enjoys self-esteem, feels proud about the work he's done. Take that same brick layer and put him on welfare making the same $, and he still lives relatively comfortably, but he loses his pride, self-esteem.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 9:51:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
TL;DR.

Regarding the title, a "free market cure" would be to abolish the minimum wage and any and all forms of welfare, and see wages drop to where they would be competitive globally. If people begin to die from starvation and what not, all the better - the labor pool is too big as it is anyway. Capitalism is all about marginalization of costs, and labor is by far the biggest cost.

This kind of logic is why we do not operate under a completely free market system.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Some facts about West Virginia -

1. The first federal prison dedicated to women prisoners exclusively was built in West Virginia in 1926 (presumably because WV is a hub for federal female felons?)

---

2. West Virginia is known as the Mountain State.

3. 75% of West Virginia is covered in forest.

---

4. West Virginia is the ONLY state in the union to have gained sovereignty by decree of the president.

5. West Virginia's motto is "Mountaineers Are Always Free." (always meaning after their freedom is granted to them by a central authority)

---

6. In May 1860, the first well in the state for producing crude oil was drilled at Burning Springs. (think about that name a moment)

7. The first spa open to the public was at Berkeley Springs, West Virginia, in 1756 (then, Bath, Virginia).

---

Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 10:41:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
He believes in minarchy: government should handle police, courts, and national defense. I asked him a question to which he responded, "That's a good question." I said, "The United States was founded as essentially a minarchy, the role of government was extremely limited. However, it has expanded into the leviathan it is today with a military-industrial complex, massive state interventions in the economy, a corporatist prison system, etc. Given your preference for minarchy, if the role of government was reset to that position, what makes you think that the end result will be anything different than what we have today?"

His response: the founders were brilliant, but they missed an explicit wording of the commerce clause.

Bad answer.

Good answer: there is no way to prevent minarchy from transitioning into a massive, life-destroying, parasitic state. Therefore, we must strike at the root by privatizing the aforementioned functions of government into competing firms in a free market. Bad companies will lose revenue and go bankrupt; good companies will be mimicked and customers will choose which company best suits their needs.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 10:57:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 10:41:57 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
He believes in minarchy: government should handle police, courts, and national defense. I asked him a question to which he responded, "That's a good question." I said, "The United States was founded as essentially a minarchy, the role of government was extremely limited. However, it has expanded into the leviathan it is today with a military-industrial complex, massive state interventions in the economy, a corporatist prison system, etc. Given your preference for minarchy, if the role of government was reset to that position, what makes you think that the end result will be anything different than what we have today?"

His response: the founders were brilliant, but they missed an explicit wording of the commerce clause.

Bad answer.

Good answer: there is no way to prevent minarchy from transitioning into a massive, life-destroying, parasitic state. Therefore, we must strike at the root by privatizing the aforementioned functions of government into competing firms in a free market. Bad companies will lose revenue and go bankrupt; good companies will be mimicked and customers will choose which company best suits their needs.

That is a very good answer.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 10:59:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
However, didn't government arise from no government?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 11:05:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 9:51:19 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
TL;DR.

Regarding the title, a "free market cure" would be to abolish the minimum wage and any and all forms of welfare,

No, just the incredibly inefficient and self-esteem-destroying state-welfare. Mutual-aid societies were common prior to FDR's interventions. I have a question for you: All other things equal, would you rather have 70% of the money you give to charity reach the person in need or 30%?

and see wages drop to where they would be competitive globally.

Why does anyone in the United States make more than the minimum wage? You realize only 5.2% of workers make minimum wage, right?

If people begin to die from starvation and what not, all the better - the labor pool is too big as it is anyway.

Why would less productive capacity be better than more productive capacity. Review the essential premises behind your arguments and place them into correct context.

Capitalism is all about marginalization of costs, and labor is by far the biggest cost.

The starvation of people, which shifts the supply curve of labor left, increases the cost of labor. This would be detrimental to employers in a strict, cold-calculation sense.

This kind of logic is why we do not operate under a completely free market system.

Your kind of "logic" is why you should take a critical reasoning course when you get to high school and/or college.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 11:11:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.

John Allison is not the source of the words being entered into this thread. You are.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 11:45:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 11:11:45 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.

John Allison is not the source of the words being entered into this thread. You are.

I was born and raised in Florida. Even if I were born and raised in West Virginia, your post was a blatant guilt-by-association fallacy that has no bearing on the strength or weakness of any arguments I, or others, make.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 11:58:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 11:45:48 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 11:11:45 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.

John Allison is not the source of the words being entered into this thread. You are.

I was born and raised in Florida. Even if I were born and raised in West Virginia, your post was a blatant guilt-by-association fallacy that has no bearing on the strength or weakness of any arguments I, or others, make.

true enough.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 11:59:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It's pretty effective, though, which is all I care about.

In the end, it doesn't matter who's wrong or right, only who is perceived as such.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 6:19:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 10:41:57 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Good answer: there is no way to prevent minarchy from transitioning into a massive, life-destroying, parasitic state. Therefore, we must strike at the root by privatizing the aforementioned functions of government into competing firms in a free market. Bad companies will lose revenue and go bankrupt; good companies will be mimicked and customers will choose which company best suits their needs.

The problem with this is that there is a difference between a free market and anarchy, and that difference is maintained by government, which banishes the initiation of violent force from interpersonal relationship (in theory). Without government, you do not have a free market, you have a Hobbesian State of Nature, which will eventually lead to the formation of another government. My crucial point is that it's best to design the minarchist government in a way which both slows down the rate of corruption and allows the state to be dissolved once it progresses to a certain point, because a state is not so much a necessary evil as it is an inevitable one. In my opinion America failed as an experiment not because of the commerce clause but because Lincoln won the Civil War, and when he did so the premise which was destroyed was that of self-governance. As to why Lincoln was able to do so, it comes down choosing a large standing army over a militia as our primary method of self-defense.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 6:56:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 6:19:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The problem with this is that there is a difference between a free market and anarchy,

In a free market there is no legitimized initiation of coercion, e.g. if my company raids your company and steals business secrets, money, and documents, it wouldn't appear legitimate. This contrasts with the state's initiation of force, which is frequently legitimized, e.g. DEA raids are generally viewed as legitimate.

Cool fact: International trade is almost entirely anarchic, and it's responsible for 1/4 of world GDP. [Source: Economist Peter Leeson, speech].

Without government, you do not have a free market, you have a Hobbesian State of Nature, which will eventually lead to the formation of another government.

If people embraced the ideas of liberty and saw the initiation of coercion as inherently immoral, why would they suddenly embrace what they rightly see as a gang of thugs instead of a civilized "government?" Also, a society enjoying the benefits of the first truly free market in over century wouldn't suddenly rush to an idiotic, archaic institution like the state. Molyneux brings up a point that I think is interesting to consider: future civilizations will reflect on this era of statism with disbelief and disgust, similar to how we view slavery (well, yeah, Statism is slavery, but to a lesser degree) and religious "morality" today.

My crucial point is that it's best to design the minarchist government in a way which both slows down the rate of corruption and allows the state to be dissolved once it progresses to a certain point, because a state is not so much a necessary evil as it is an inevitable one.

You think the state is inevitable? The human species was stateless for 99% of our existence. Trade networks and advanced technology (As RoyalPaladin has recently pointed out) are evidence that previous anarchic civilizations have flourished. There are examples in Celtic Ireland, the American West, and Iceland in which the full privatization of police, courts, defense, etc was present. Under the presence of slavery, people may have thought that owning human beings was a fact of life and "inevitable," but it's not moral, productive, or conducive to human flourishing.

In my opinion America failed as an experiment not because of the commerce clause but because Lincoln won the Civil War, and when he did so the premise which was destroyed was that of self-governance.

Post-Civil war was the most productive period in America. The production of US companies increased faster during the 1870s than ever, and the average standard of living grew faster during the 1880s than at any point in in US history.

As to why Lincoln was able to do so, it comes down choosing a large standing army over a militia as our primary method of self-defense.

The US army decreased in size after Lincoln. Your main target in this accusation should be Woodrow Wilson who essentially created the military-industrial complex. Then, Woodrow Wilson greatly expanded the Military-Industrial Complex by the creation of the Federal Reserve System, which allows that sector to use the newly created money prior to most of the United States, and facilitating massive purchases for the war effort in Europe with typical Defense department frontloading and waste.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 7:02:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 11:59:26 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
It's pretty effective, though, which is all I care about.

In the end, it doesn't matter who's wrong or right, only who is perceived as such.

Circumstantial ad hominems (and guilt-by-association accusations) are always weak and fallacious. However, an abusive ad hominem can be persuasive and strong; i.e. you could mention a character flaw someone possesses which is relevant to the topic of discussion (e.g. Bill Clinton's proclivity for extramarital office head is a good reason to suspect that he did it with Gennifer Flowers as well).
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/28/2013 7:33:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 6:56:53 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 6:19:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The problem with this is that there is a difference between a free market and anarchy,

In a free market there is no legitimized initiation of coercion, e.g. if my company raids your company and steals business secrets, money, and documents, it wouldn't appear legitimate. This contrasts with the state's initiation of force, which is frequently legitimized, e.g. DEA raids are generally viewed as legitimate.

Cool fact: International trade is almost entirely anarchic, and it's responsible for 1/4 of world GDP. [Source: Economist Peter Leeson, speech].

Except for the numerous treaties between states which govern such transactions, and the oversight of international organizations.

Without government, you do not have a free market, you have a Hobbesian State of Nature, which will eventually lead to the formation of another government.

If people embraced the ideas of liberty and saw the initiation of coercion as inherently immoral, why would they suddenly embrace what they rightly see as a gang of thugs instead of a civilized "government?" Also, a society enjoying the benefits of the first truly free market in over century wouldn't suddenly rush to an idiotic, archaic institution like the state. Molyneux brings up a point that I think is interesting to consider: future civilizations will reflect on this era of statism with disbelief and disgust, similar to how we view slavery (well, yeah, Statism is slavery, but to a lesser degree) and religious "morality" today.

What is to stop somebody disagreeing? What is to stop them from amassing force and founding a state? What is to stop already established states from trampling over anarchistic systems? You cannot simply assume that everyone will have the same indelible ideology as you, this is the same flawed reasoning employed by utopian Communists. And the argument that our descendents might make fun of us isn't much of an argument.

And besides, the formation of a state doesn't happen because everyone decides to form one. Usually rivalries form, factions follow, conflict arises and when the dust clears someone is sitting on top of the heap with a monopoly on force. The first states weren't republics derived from the consent of the governed, they were usually monarchies.

My crucial point is that it's best to design the minarchist government in a way which both slows down the rate of corruption and allows the state to be dissolved once it progresses to a certain point, because a state is not so much a necessary evil as it is an inevitable one.

You think the state is inevitable? The human species was stateless for 99% of our existence. Trade networks and advanced technology (As RoyalPaladin has recently pointed out) are evidence that previous anarchic civilizations have flourished. There are examples in Celtic Ireland, the American West, and Iceland in which the full privatization of police, courts, defense, etc was present. Under the presence of slavery, people may have thought that owning human beings was a fact of life and "inevitable," but it's not moral, productive, or conducive to human flourishing.

Yes, they existed in an era when the human race was widely dispersed and unadvanced, under conditions which no longer exist. If you want to see what happens to such societies in modern times, look no further than the eastward expansion of the Russia Empire or the colonization of the Americas. My arguments as to why the state is inevitable have nothing to do with the arguments as to why slavery was inevitable, so attempting to use that as a counterexample is pointless.

In my opinion America failed as an experiment not because of the commerce clause but because Lincoln won the Civil War, and when he did so the premise which was destroyed was that of self-governance.

Post-Civil war was the most productive period in America. The production of US companies increased faster during the 1870s than ever, and the average standard of living grew faster during the 1880s than at any point in in US history.

That's not my point, my point was that before the civil war happened secession was a check against federal power. Afterwards the federal government ballooned.

As to why Lincoln was able to do so, it comes down choosing a large standing army over a militia as our primary method of self-defense.

The US army decreased in size after Lincoln. Your main target in this accusation should be Woodrow Wilson who essentially created the military-industrial complex. Then, Woodrow Wilson greatly expanded the Military-Industrial Complex by the creation of the Federal Reserve System, which allows that sector to use the newly created money prior to most of the United States, and facilitating massive purchases for the war effort in Europe with typical Defense department frontloading and waste.

I'm not saying that Lincoln created the Army, it was there from the outset. I can't really blame anyone for that; the fact of our geography and our native neighbors necessitated a standing army. It was just the luck of the draw. My point is that decentralized militia forces cannot really be used effectively to force the centralized will of a federal government upon the citizenry, while a standing army can.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/1/2013 1:59:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 6:56:53 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 6:19:55 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
The problem with this is that there is a difference between a free market and anarchy,

In a free market there is no legitimized initiation of coercion, e.g. if my company raids your company and steals business secrets, money, and documents, it wouldn't appear legitimate. This contrasts with the state's initiation of force, which is frequently legitimized, e.g. DEA raids are generally viewed as legitimate.

Cool fact: International trade is almost entirely anarchic, and it's responsible for 1/4 of world GDP. [Source: Economist Peter Leeson, speech].

Not so cool fact - on that market, where non-renewable natural resources with inelastic demand curves are concerned - monopoly/oligopoly/cartel.

Your idea of a free market comes fully equipped with some magical code which presupposes the elimination of corruption...around the accumulation of wealth.

It's ridiculous on its face.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
RyuuKyuzo
Posts: 3,074
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/1/2013 2:28:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.

On the playground, where he spent most of his days?
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/1/2013 1:01:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/1/2013 2:28:46 AM, RyuuKyuzo wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:57:49 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/28/2013 10:15:47 AM, malcolmxy wrote:
Just stuff to consider when reviewing the source...

John Allison was born and raised in North Carolina.

On the playground, where he spent most of his days?

(Grey)Parrots Just Don't Understand

He's The D(imented Libertarian) J(unky), I'm The Actor
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...