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How do Keynesians explain HK and Singapore?

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 2:23:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Both Hong Kong and Singapore rose out of utter poverty by adopting practicing the tenets of capitalism. Lowest tax rates in the world, no tariffs, no capital gains, and a few decades later both economies are some of the most successful to have ever existed, boasting ridiculously low unemployment rates and some of the highest quality of life on Earth.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 3:10:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 2:23:55 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Both Hong Kong and Singapore rose out of utter poverty by adopting practicing the tenets of capitalism. Lowest tax rates in the world, no tariffs, no capital gains, and a few decades later both economies are some of the most successful to have ever existed, boasting ridiculously low unemployment rates and some of the highest quality of life on Earth.

Both are state controlled, and in the case of Singapore, their fascist government owns @60% of the "private" companies that are thriving through such free market principles are government induced price controls and production setting (i.e. artificial surplus and shortage).

That's how.
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malcolmxy
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3/26/2013 3:13:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Also, grab some Japanese solid state consumer electronics next time you're close to a thrift store and look at the back of them to see the "Made in Singapore" stamp like the "Made in China" stamp we're so accustomed to today.

Like South Korea, Singapore was Japan's Mexico at a certain point in its history, and also like South Korea, through government controlled economies, they've both become Japan's Canada.

Yay free market!!!
War is over, if you want it.

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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3/26/2013 3:14:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Today, Singapore has a highly developed market-based economy, based historically on extended entrep"t trade. Along with Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan, Singapore is one of the original Four Asian Tigers. The Singaporean economy is known as one of the freest, most innovative, most competitive, and most business-friendly. The 2011 Index of Economic Freedom ranks Singapore as the second freest economy in the world, behind Hong Kong. According to the Corruption Perceptions Index, Singapore is consistently ranked as one of the least corrupt countries in the world, along with New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries.
Greyparrot
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3/26/2013 3:16:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A market economy is an economy in which decisions regarding investment, production and distribution are based on supply and demand, and prices of goods and services are determined in a free price system. The major defining characteristic of a market economy is that decisions regarding investments and the allocation of producer goods is accomplished primarily through markets. This is contrasted with a planned economy, where investment and production decisions are embodied in a plan of production.
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 3:23:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What do you call a country that takes 35% of salaries to finance a state investment fund run by the prime minister's wife? Where the government controls companies responsible for 60% of gross domestic product and 85% of its citizens live in public housing? And a country with stringent restrictions on the media and public information, limits on freedom of expression and assembly, and courts that help perpetuate the domination of the only ruling party the country has ever known?

You call it the second-freest economy on Earth if you're the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal. The country described above is Singapore

http://www.atimes.com...
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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3/26/2013 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:16:56 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
A market economy is an economy in which decisions regarding investment, production and distribution are based on supply and demand, and prices of goods and services are determined in a free price system. The major defining characteristic of a market economy is that decisions regarding investments and the allocation of producer goods is accomplished primarily through markets. This is contrasted with a planned economy, where investment and production decisions are embodied in a plan of production.

Um...yeah. I demand you give my wife 35% of your salary to keep her from getting bored.

Which excuse are you going to supply for that market force?
War is over, if you want it.

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malcolmxy
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3/26/2013 3:30:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:25:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Guess it's comedy hour again....

My data was sourced.

I missed your source...I'm sure it's there, but could you repost it since my data came from the ever biased source known as the Asia Times, and I'm sure that your info came from a much more unbiased source like The Heritage Foundation or Mises.org?

Thanks.
War is over, if you want it.

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 3:41:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:30:22 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:25:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Guess it's comedy hour again....

My data was sourced.

I missed your source...I'm sure it's there, but could you repost it since my data came from the ever biased source known as the Asia Times, and I'm sure that your info came from a much more unbiased source like The Heritage Foundation or Mises.org?

Thanks.

Lol, find another source. I check up on it... has literally zero traffic on google trends.
dylancatlow
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3/26/2013 3:42:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:41:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:30:22 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:25:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Guess it's comedy hour again....

My data was sourced.

I missed your source...I'm sure it's there, but could you repost it since my data came from the ever biased source known as the Asia Times, and I'm sure that your info came from a much more unbiased source like The Heritage Foundation or Mises.org?

Thanks.

Lol, find another source. I check up on it... has literally zero traffic on google trends.

Wait, never mind, the link was the problem. It's still a very sketchy website.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 3:44:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:23:23 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
What do you call a country that takes 35% of salaries to finance a state investment fund run by the prime minister's wife? Where the government controls companies responsible for 60% of gross domestic product and 85% of its citizens live in public housing? And a country with stringent restrictions on the media and public information, limits on freedom of expression and assembly, and courts that help perpetuate the domination of the only ruling party the country has ever known?

You call it the second-freest economy on Earth if you're the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal. The country described above is Singapore

http://www.atimes.com...

Your 'facts' are complete bullsh1t. The maximum tax is 20 percent of income.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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3/26/2013 3:46:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:41:22 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:30:22 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:25:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Guess it's comedy hour again....

My data was sourced.

I missed your source...I'm sure it's there, but could you repost it since my data came from the ever biased source known as the Asia Times, and I'm sure that your info came from a much more unbiased source like The Heritage Foundation or Mises.org?

Thanks.

Lol, find another source. I check up on it... has literally zero traffic on google trends.

It doesn't matter, malcolm has a problem with the money taken out of peoples paychecks to be used for government welfare programs. (That doesn't happen in the USA of course) Malcolm has a problem with government ownership but fails to definitively prove how that equates to government control (See General Motors).

Nothing he babbles about has any relevance to how easy or how hard it is to start up a business in Singapore and competing in a market economy.

It's just comedy hour as usual.....
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 4:21:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
ole miss...not THE most well thought of university in the world, but still a major american university. That good enough for you?

http://www.olemiss.edu...
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malcolmxy
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3/26/2013 4:24:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is from 2002, so the web design might throw ya, but it's a Boston University address...is that good?

(notice how The Hong Kong government is the largest land owner in Hong Kong)

http://econc10.bu.edu...
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/26/2013 4:25:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:47:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I'm actually laughing out loud at how poorly designed that website is. It's worse than DDO ffs!

You guys are sad. Asia Times is a quality source of news. It's not American, but that doesn't make it invalid.

You guys probably also think Al Jazeera is a terrorist network. Sure, there is bias, but there is bias in American news as well. Wake up. Or, if you choose, continue your long nap into oblivion.

In the end, fact is fact. You question the facts in Asia Times, and then counter with your own facts which are neither sourced nor substantiated. You guys are pitiful.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
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3/26/2013 4:26:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 4:24:16 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
This is from 2002, so the web design might throw ya, but it's a Boston University address...is that good?

(notice how The Hong Kong government is the largest land owner in Hong Kong)

http://econc10.bu.edu...

Sometimes I wonder if trying to convince these guys of their own stupidity is worth the time. You know they're not going to read what you source, bro.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 4:27:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You want more? There's like a million of 'em.

Did you notice how every site you go to starts out exactly the same...

"Singapore has a highly developed and successful market economy. It has an open, pro-business environment..."

This would be the sure sign of state sponsored propaganda.

Did you look at the source of the info?

Oh, there it is - The Singapore Ministry of Trade and Industry...well no f*cking wonder they are painting such a rosy picture of their own country...after you've been in power, unopposed for 50 years, you get kinda good at that sh!t.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/26/2013 4:27:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hillary Clinton on Al Jazeera:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Clinton was speaking before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and she said the U.S. is losing the "information war" in the world. Other countries and global news outlets, she said, were making inroads into places like the Middle East more effectively than the United States has. One of the reasons she cited for this was the quality of channels like Al Jazeera. The channel, she said, was "changing peoples' minds and attitudes. And like it or hate it, it is really effective." U.S. news, she added, was not keeping up.

Like I said, wake up.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 4:29:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 4:26:09 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/26/2013 4:24:16 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
This is from 2002, so the web design might throw ya, but it's a Boston University address...is that good?

(notice how The Hong Kong government is the largest land owner in Hong Kong)

http://econc10.bu.edu...

Sometimes I wonder if trying to convince these guys of their own stupidity is worth the time. You know they're not going to read what you source, bro.

At a certain point, it's more about embarrassing them than educating them.

I'm hopeful one will eventually transition into the other, but I'm not holding my breath. The ignorance, like humidity in Dallas, is thick around these parts.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 4:34:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My favorite part is how they mock my source, supply none of their own, and then call me out for ad hom.

Really...it's a spectacular strategy if not for the massive transparency of it all.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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3/26/2013 4:34:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:44:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:23:23 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
What do you call a country that takes 35% of salaries to finance a state investment fund run by the prime minister's wife? Where the government controls companies responsible for 60% of gross domestic product and 85% of its citizens live in public housing? And a country with stringent restrictions on the media and public information, limits on freedom of expression and assembly, and courts that help perpetuate the domination of the only ruling party the country has ever known?

You call it the second-freest economy on Earth if you're the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal. The country described above is Singapore

http://www.atimes.com...

Your 'facts' are complete bullsh1t. The maximum tax is 20 percent of income.

You have a source? Or are you an expert in BS?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
malcolmxy
Posts: 2,855
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3/26/2013 4:36:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 3:44:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:23:23 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
What do you call a country that takes 35% of salaries to finance a state investment fund run by the prime minister's wife? Where the government controls companies responsible for 60% of gross domestic product and 85% of its citizens live in public housing? And a country with stringent restrictions on the media and public information, limits on freedom of expression and assembly, and courts that help perpetuate the domination of the only ruling party the country has ever known?

You call it the second-freest economy on Earth if you're the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal. The country described above is Singapore

http://www.atimes.com...

Your 'facts' are complete bullsh1t. The maximum tax is 20 percent of income.

No, they just appear that way to you because you're not used to reading actual facts.

They can hurt your eyes the first time you see them, so be careful, 'kay...don't worry...I'll put all those pesky sources in one post for you so you can see them all and find some bullsh!t excuse for ignoring them en masse...just give me a sec.
War is over, if you want it.

Meet Dr. Stupid and his assistants - http://www.debate.org...
malcolmxy
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3/26/2013 4:40:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://www.atimes.com...

http://graphics.thomsonreuters.com...

http://thehearttruths.files.wordpress.com...

http://econc10.bu.edu...

http://www.olemiss.edu...

And, remember now, this is the tip of the iceberg.

Explain to me again how your information from the Singapore Ministry of Trade and Industry is the "Truth" and my information from trusted news sources, Major American Universities and yes, sure, one blog, but that's only because the person running that blog made such a fancy infographic, are "Complete Bullsh!t".

Please...I gotta hear this one.
War is over, if you want it.

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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/26/2013 5:40:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I actually found the idea that the government-sponsored corporations made up 60% of gdp. I remember when Freedo proposed the idea and I thought it was foolish. But perhaps i underestimated the positive effects government sponsored corporations can have and overestimated the negative effects of for-profit corporations can have (especially considering the effects of monopoly pricing and collaborative nature R&D).

Of course, whether a corporation or government should run a certain industry depends on how corrupt the the government is, which really can't be predicted a priori. Marginal revolution university shows examples of how privatization of water can have better effects then public-ownership, even though the water industry is considered a natural monopoly.

http://mruniversity.com...
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 6:30:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 4:21:55 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
ole miss...not THE most well thought of university in the world, but still a major american university. That good enough for you?

http://www.olemiss.edu...

If you're going to data dump, at least make it pretty/ MILDLY reputable.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,254
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3/26/2013 6:34:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 4:34:28 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:44:46 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 3:23:23 PM, malcolmxy wrote:
What do you call a country that takes 35% of salaries to finance a state investment fund run by the prime minister's wife? Where the government controls companies responsible for 60% of gross domestic product and 85% of its citizens live in public housing? And a country with stringent restrictions on the media and public information, limits on freedom of expression and assembly, and courts that help perpetuate the domination of the only ruling party the country has ever known?

You call it the second-freest economy on Earth if you're the Heritage Foundation and Wall Street Journal. The country described above is Singapore

http://www.atimes.com...

Your 'facts' are complete bullsh1t. The maximum tax is 20 percent of income.

You have a source? Or are you an expert in BS?

I don't need a source; it's common knowledge.