Total Posts:27|Showing Posts:1-27
Jump to topic:

Abolish restaurants.

Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2013 8:43:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The most convenient introduction to communism I've ever seen: http://www.prole.info...

Tell me what you thiiiii-iiiiink!
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2013 10:08:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 8:43:14 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
The most convenient introduction to communism I've ever seen: http://www.prole.info...

Tell me what you thiiiii-iiiiink!

Horrible, despicable idea.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/9/2013 12:34:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 11:05:13 PM, Cermank wrote:
What is this in reference to, exactly? What's the rationale?

Because communism, I guess. Did you read it? It's a click-thru, sorry if I forgot to mention that.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
YYW
Posts: 36,289
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/9/2013 12:58:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 8:43:14 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
The most convenient introduction to communism I've ever seen: http://www.prole.info...

Tell me what you thiiiii-iiiiink!

I love restaurants. I would rather go out to a Michelin 3 star restaurant than to a theme park, or basically any other "fun" thing that people do. Chefs are heroes of mine. Anthony Bourdain, especially.
Tsar of DDO
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/9/2013 3:57:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/8/2013 8:43:14 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
The most convenient introduction to communism I've ever seen: http://www.prole.info...

Tell me what you thiiiii-iiiiink!

This is quite constructive and true to many level. Although, like all thing that is socialism, abolition of restaurant as a privately own business will not yield any good result.

It is true that restaurant is labor intensive, it is true that business owner is certainly pay them less than what they really produced (otherwise, how else can the business is running), it is also true that most of the workers are not being there out of the kindness of their hearth and simply trading their time for money for there is nothing else they can do.

What they fail to perceive is that, if the restaurant is not , this low-paid unskilled workers are also unlikely to have any other means to feed themselves either way.

I think that is the fundamental problem of communism and socialism of all form. It is the least productive form of economy and people usually want it when there are not enough resource in general to consume. Producing less, when there are not enough to eat, it came to no surprise that communism will always result in more casualty as best (as in those who do not support the party in power), or massive famine.

It's true that life in a kitchen is hard work, unfair (but really, I never see any workers who ever think that anything is ever fair to them), and miserable, it is still a source of income. If there is no entrepreneur willing to invest his capital for the business, this workers will still have to work in an equally miserable jobs somewhere else or face starvation. Or worst, force someone else to face starvation for them. That is why socialism is and will always be a force of evil in my eyes.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/9/2013 5:41:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the concept of restaurants are dumb, but I don't see why it's harmful. It gets money moving and distributed back to the lower classes. Maybe not efficiently, but it's better than nothing. I think we need to teach everyone WHY tipping adequately is necessary, considering that hourly pay for most service staff is ~$4.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/15/2013 5:17:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 5:41:43 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I think the concept of restaurants are dumb, but I don't see why it's harmful. It gets money moving and distributed back to the lower classes. Maybe not efficiently, but it's better than nothing. I think we need to teach everyone WHY tipping adequately is necessary, considering that hourly pay for most service staff is ~$4.

Ha ha, that is what a banker with at least 2 years experiences would earn in my country, guest I shouldn't tip after all.

Just kidding, your cost of living is probably mush higher than mined too. Mcdonald is considered a luxury by many of our lower income class to bring their kid in Sunday weekend, so our common meal is probably as cheap as dirt to you.

Sometime economy is so unfair.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/15/2013 11:56:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Surprisingly there was an episode like this on King of the Hill last night. The city-counsel banned restaurants, and than a bunch of black market meals on wheels businesses popped up. Due to the low health standards of the black market restaurants, everyone got sick. The city-counsel was than forced to repeal the ban, after a news crew got everything on tape, including the counsel-members eating at the black market restaurants.

That pretty much sums up how this scenario would play out.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/15/2013 12:44:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Abolish restaurants."

Ban this abolish that, What's the friken point in being alive if all one is going to do is take away the things that make life fun and worth living
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/15/2013 1:07:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/15/2013 11:56:08 AM, DanT wrote:
Surprisingly there was an episode like this on King of the Hill last night. The city-counsel banned restaurants, and than a bunch of black market meals on wheels businesses popped up. Due to the low health standards of the black market restaurants, everyone got sick. The city-counsel was than forced to repeal the ban, after a news crew got everything on tape, including the counsel-members eating at the black market restaurants.

That pretty much sums up how this scenario would play out.

Well they banned fattie food, not restaurants, but I digress.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/15/2013 4:23:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/15/2013 1:07:26 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 6/15/2013 11:56:08 AM, DanT wrote:
Surprisingly there was an episode like this on King of the Hill last night. The city-counsel banned restaurants, and than a bunch of black market meals on wheels businesses popped up. Due to the low health standards of the black market restaurants, everyone got sick. The city-counsel was than forced to repeal the ban, after a news crew got everything on tape, including the counsel-members eating at the black market restaurants.

That pretty much sums up how this scenario would play out.

Well they banned fattie food, not restaurants, but I digress.

(C + I + G + NX) - f(K,L) = People willing to buy from the black market
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/29/2013 6:40:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The title was mainly provocation, the restaurant mainly an example; it was as if Marx were to name Das Kapital Abolish Yarn because of the terms he put his exploitation theory in.

On the other hand, there is tipping, which is basically unique to restaurants, and which the author seemed particularly opposed to. His arguments were three: tipping was instituted by bosses (an extraordinary claim backed up by zero evidence), tipping transfers risk to workers (true, but that risk devalues the expected wage, increasing it), and tipping intensifies work (no, the abolition of tipping would only increase cruder and less efficient means of compulsion--firings, for instance; it's worthy of note that dishwashers and prep cooks, sans tips, are easily worked as hard as waiters).

That said, tipping does not aid the tipped class, but only the individual being tipped. There are those who think they're being charitable when they tip, when in fact they're basically taking money from the tipped workers generally and transferring it to the one they happen to be confronted with; for tips inform the supply of labor, and the supply of labor informs the time-wage. Those who take pride in doing the boss's job for him, tipping on the basis of quality of service, are equally deluded; studies show that it is rather the general mood of the customer that accounts for the variability from the fixed percentage robotically added by most.
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/30/2013 6:51:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/29/2013 6:40:15 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
The title was mainly provocation, the restaurant mainly an example; it was as if Marx were to name Das Kapital Abolish Yarn because of the terms he put his exploitation theory in.

On the other hand, there is tipping, which is basically unique to restaurants, and which the author seemed particularly opposed to. His arguments were three: tipping was instituted by bosses (an extraordinary claim backed up by zero evidence), tipping transfers risk to workers (true, but that risk devalues the expected wage, increasing it), and tipping intensifies work (no, the abolition of tipping would only increase cruder and less efficient means of compulsion--firings, for instance; it's worthy of note that dishwashers and prep cooks, sans tips, are easily worked as hard as waiters).

That said, tipping does not aid the tipped class, but only the individual being tipped. There are those who think they're being charitable when they tip, when in fact they're basically taking money from the tipped workers generally and transferring it to the one they happen to be confronted with; for tips inform the supply of labor, and the supply of labor informs the time-wage. Those who take pride in doing the boss's job for him, tipping on the basis of quality of service, are equally deluded; studies show that it is rather the general mood of the customer that accounts for the variability from the fixed percentage robotically added by most.

I really need to go out and say this: nice analysis.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/30/2013 12:00:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/9/2013 5:41:43 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I think the concept of restaurants are dumb, but I don't see why it's harmful. It gets money moving and distributed back to the lower classes. Maybe not efficiently, but it's better than nothing. I think we need to teach everyone WHY tipping adequately is necessary, considering that hourly pay for most service staff is ~$4.

Uh... tipping. Such a despicable social convention, that I, thankfully, never follow.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/30/2013 9:16:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/30/2013 12:00:50 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/9/2013 5:41:43 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I think the concept of restaurants are dumb, but I don't see why it's harmful. It gets money moving and distributed back to the lower classes. Maybe not efficiently, but it's better than nothing. I think we need to teach everyone WHY tipping adequately is necessary, considering that hourly pay for most service staff is ~$4.

Uh... tipping. Such a despicable social convention, that I, thankfully, never follow.

Bet you get really crappy service at restaurants you visit more than once
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/1/2013 3:25:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/30/2013 9:16:49 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/30/2013 12:00:50 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/9/2013 5:41:43 AM, CanWeKnow wrote:
I think the concept of restaurants are dumb, but I don't see why it's harmful. It gets money moving and distributed back to the lower classes. Maybe not efficiently, but it's better than nothing. I think we need to teach everyone WHY tipping adequately is necessary, considering that hourly pay for most service staff is ~$4.

Uh... tipping. Such a despicable social convention, that I, thankfully, never follow.

Bet you get really crappy service at restaurants you visit more than once

Do you seriously think that waiters remember people who don't tip? lol.

Waiting tables isn't exactly a job that attracts the individuals with the best mental capabilities.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/1/2013 7:31:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/1/2013 3:25:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Waiting tables isn't exactly a job that attracts the individuals with the best mental capabilities.

A monkey can remember a face, so the fact that waiters lack your own awesome intellect is irrelevant. They're probably just being nice so that you don't suspect that one or more of their bodily fluids is the key to that distinctive flavor that keeps you coming back.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2013 5:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/1/2013 7:31:41 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 7/1/2013 3:25:43 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Waiting tables isn't exactly a job that attracts the individuals with the best mental capabilities.

A monkey can remember a face, so the fact that waiters lack your own awesome intellect is irrelevant. They're probably just being nice so that you don't suspect that one or more of their bodily fluids is the key to that distinctive flavor that keeps you coming back.

Too bad I mostly eat in place with an open kitchen.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2013 10:46:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This has to be the worst thread title I have ever read. Just entertaining the possibility of restaurants being banned makes me shudder. One of my main hobbies (besides chess, ultimate, guitar, ukulele, sex, cycling, investing, adventuring, and reading) is eating at awesome restaurants.

I have a happy medium: abolish chain restaurants and fast-food restaurants.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2013 7:30:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, we do remember people who don't tip. In fact we remember your faces the best. I worked in a very popular Mexican restaurant for 6 months. I couldn't tell you the things I wanted to do to your food, you're just lucky I am a good person. The worst thing I ever did was crush a party's chips up into tiny pieces and gave them just the tomato water part of the salsa and served it to them. I hated those people.

I don't understand why tipping could ever be bad? People who work at McDonalds make minimum wage. Wait staff make a minimum of $4 an hour and HAVE to make the rest up in tips. In some cases they don't make up the rest of their tips consistently and have to give up something to pay rent.

The crappy wait staff that doesn't make the customer happy doesn't get tips. I've seen it happen. It doesn't matter how jubilant a customer is. Certain wait staff make consistently less because of their attitude toward customers. You're not just paying for your food when you go to a restaurant, you're paying for an experience. If the wait staff isn't providing that experience then they don't get tipped .

Restaurants aren't like Sonic. The Sonic attendants don't check on you, make sure your drinks are refilled, make you feel welcome,and then clean your car after you're done eating. Sonic attendants can just suck it up cuz they make minimum wage anyway.

Let me reiterate, WAIT STAFF DON'T MAKE MINIMUM WAGE. Their average wage is dependent on the quality of service they provide and the quality of their restaurant.
TIP YOUR WAITER OR WAITRESS BECAUSE WE WILL FIND YOU, AND SPIT IN YOUR HOME MADE OATMEAL WHEN YOU'RE NOT LOOKING.
shenjie
Posts: 17
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/5/2013 12:48:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
When a mens christian louboutin dress shoes patient arrives in the ER, the are christian louboutin daffodil shoes comfortable [url=http://www.freedaybday.com...][b]Nike Free Norge[/b][/url] first [url=http://www.freedaybday.com...][b]Nike Free Run 2[/b][/url] thing he or she must do is register. Today, this is [url=http://www.freedaybday.com...][b]http://www.freedaybday.com...[/b][/url] handled by a registration clerk
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/5/2013 5:46:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/4/2013 7:30:39 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Let me reiterate, WAIT STAFF DON'T MAKE MINIMUM WAGE. Their average wage is dependent on the quality of service they provide and the quality of their restaurant.

You're not thinking dynamically. Haven't you ever wondered why your time-wage is below the minimum in the first place? Because of tips. All else being equal, the better you're tipped, the lower your time-wage will be. This is because tips are just as dependent on the job as the time-wage, and thus just as capable of compelling you to take the job and do what you need to keep it.

If the fashions of conspicuous waste change such that customers tip more, you're still an easily-replaceable unskilled worker, so your boss is going to react by adjusting the time-wage accordingly (i.e. downward). And even if bosses have no direct knowledge of tips, they gain tacit knowledge, or are at least moved by the invisible hand as if they did, when you accept and leave jobs.

So when you tug on our heart-strings, know that what you're really asking us to do is subsidize your industry; quite little of that tip trickles down to you in the long-run, though you experience it as money in your pocket.
CanWeKnow
Posts: 217
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/5/2013 6:25:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 5:46:22 PM, CarefulNow wrote:
At 7/4/2013 7:30:39 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Let me reiterate, WAIT STAFF DON'T MAKE MINIMUM WAGE. Their average wage is dependent on the quality of service they provide and the quality of their restaurant.

You're not thinking dynamically. Haven't you ever wondered why your time-wage is below the minimum in the first place? Because of tips. All else being equal, the better you're tipped, the lower your time-wage will be. This is because tips are just as dependent on the job as the time-wage, and thus just as capable of compelling you to take the job and do what you need to keep it.

If the fashions of conspicuous waste change such that customers tip more, you're still an easily-replaceable unskilled worker, so your boss is going to react by adjusting the time-wage accordingly (i.e. downward). And even if bosses have no direct knowledge of tips, they gain tacit knowledge, or are at least moved by the invisible hand as if they did, when you accept and leave jobs.

So when you tug on our heart-strings, know that what you're really asking us to do is subsidize your industry; quite little of that tip trickles down to you in the long-run, though you experience it as money in your pocket.

Woah, unskilled worker? o.O Have you ever held 7 cups and 2 plates at the same time while dodging children running through the aisles?! Didn't think so.

Of course the time wage is below minimum. That's why it's called tipped minimum wage. It's not like restaurants pay their wait staff more than the Federal or State government tells them to. Even high class restaurants still pay the minimum. Are you trying to tell me that if everyone tipped more they would pass legislation to LOWER the tipped minimum wage? They have tried in the past, but failed miserably.

I can almost guarantee that no experienced wait staff will wait around long if that happens. Especially in the lower-tipping restaurants.

If you tip correctly and consistently you will pay a reasonable amount of money for your food and not have unidentified organic matter accidentally placed in your consumables. If you don't tip then you'll still feel the hurt in your wallet through higher meal prices and higher taxes when you have to pay for the kitchen staff's welfare. The money has to come from somewhere, and it's not going to come from the wait staff. There really are some job that aren't worth working. I'm surprised teachers haven't said screw it yet.
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/12/2013 7:07:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/5/2013 6:25:00 PM, CanWeKnow wrote:
Woah, unskilled worker? o.O Have you ever held 7 cups and 2 plates at the same time while dodging children running through the aisles?! Didn't think so.

No, I've never performed that specific unskilled task. As a human being, however, I've performed many similar tasks, usually without the expectation of monetary compensation. Perhaps "unskilled" is a poor term, but it's a common one for a job that basically anyone can do after a brief training period. I didn't mean your work wasn't complicated, although you'd get more sympathy from me if it weren't; no worker has it worse than the one who performs a single rote task while his mind and body wither.

Of course the time wage is below minimum. That's why it's called tipped minimum wage. It's not like restaurants pay their wait staff more than the Federal or State government tells them to. Even high class restaurants still pay the minimum. Are you trying to tell me that if everyone tipped more they would pass legislation to LOWER the tipped minimum wage? They have tried in the past, but failed miserably.

But they've succeeded in keeping the tipped minimum the same since 1989; the normal minimum, inflation and tips (even as a percentage) have all risen substantially.

If you tip correctly and consistently you will pay a reasonable amount of money for your food and not have unidentified organic matter accidentally placed in your consumables. If you don't tip then you'll still feel the hurt in your wallet through higher meal prices and higher taxes when you have to pay for the kitchen staff's welfare. The money has to come from somewhere, and it's not going to come from the wait staff. There really are some job that aren't worth working. I'm surprised teachers haven't said screw it yet.

No, because the costs of higher prices and higher taxes are divided among customers and taxpayers, respectively, whereas the savings from not tipping are individualized. So it's only individually rational to tip when one is a frequent patron to a particular establishment. And it's of course never collectively rational.