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Neoconservative and neoliberal

suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/23/2013 11:04:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What is exactly the differences between this 2 schools and their traditional counterpart?

Like how neoliberal differ from liberal?
Jake-migkillertwo
Posts: 67
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8/23/2013 11:27:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:04:33 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
What is exactly the differences between this 2 schools and their traditional counterpart?

Like how neoliberal differ from liberal?

From what I've read of neoliberal and neoconservative authors, there really isn't much of a difference at all. Neoconservatism is more of a branch of neoliberalism.
suttichart.denpruektham
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8/24/2013 3:44:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/23/2013 11:27:57 AM, Jake-migkillertwo wrote:
At 8/23/2013 11:04:33 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
What is exactly the differences between this 2 schools and their traditional counterpart?

Like how neoliberal differ from liberal?

From what I've read of neoliberal and neoconservative authors, there really isn't much of a difference at all. Neoconservatism is more of a branch of neoliberalism.

so neoliberal is not exactly a true liberal?
Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
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8/25/2013 5:36:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Neoconservative is just a militaristic conservative, like myself. Neoliberal is quite similar to a liberal.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/28/2013 5:22:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/25/2013 5:36:43 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
Neoconservative is just a militaristic conservative, like myself. Neoliberal is quite similar to a liberal.

err.. that seem to be completely contradicted remark from the guy who mentioned it above..

Can you be more specific? What exactly is the neoconservative trait that distinguished it from both the traditional conservative and neoliberal?
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
suttichart.denpruektham
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8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

Sound really, really confusing. I assumed that this is something I'll only found in the US, it is quite different from the concept of liberal and conservative I've been heard of.

Oh, and my question is concerning both economic and political aspect of this two concept. For example, what kind of economic idea is being support by your neoconservative, and what kind id for neoliberal.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/30/2013 11:30:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

No
Classic Liberalism is essentially right wing libertarianism.
Neoliberalism is a new approach to classic liberalism
Modern Liberalism (usually just called liberalism) is radical liberalism. "Radical" means they advocate reform. Modern Liberals are individualist progressives, whereas populists are collectivist progressives.

Sound really, really confusing. I assumed that this is something I'll only found in the US, it is quite different from the concept of liberal and conservative I've been heard of.

Classic Liberalism, and Radical Liberalism evolved in Great Britain. Classic Liberalism developed from the ideals of the Whig Party, and Radical Liberalism branched off from classic liberalism.
Oh, and my question is concerning both economic and political aspect of this two concept. For example, what kind of economic idea is being support by your neoconservative, and what kind id for neoliberal.

Neoliberals would usually favor the neoclassical approach to economics, but politically they may favor other approaches as well.

Neoconservatives is a little harder to pinpoint.
Traditional Conservatives favor government intervention and protectionism. Liberal Conservatives (which is individualist conservatism) favors Laissez-faire. Neoconservatives tend to favor free market economics, but they sometimes vary in regards to the extent.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/30/2013 11:34:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

Let me clarify a bit more. Socialism is a widely misused term. Socialism is when the means of production is publicly owned, and communism is the abolition of private property.

Radical Liberals aka Liberals are in individualists who favor progressive economics. Progressive economics includes things like social justice, Keynesianism, subsidization, and so on.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/30/2013 10:00:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 11:34:19 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

Let me clarify a bit more. Socialism is a widely misused term. Socialism is when the means of production is publicly owned, and communism is the abolition of private property.

Radical Liberals aka Liberals are in individualists who favor progressive economics. Progressive economics includes things like social justice, Keynesianism, subsidization, and so on.

Isn't that exactly what they did? How can one being economically progressive and pursuit social justice without strong degree of public ownership (unless they consider the free market itself as a social justice). I still think even under this definition, they would still fit in the category of socialist than most.

Anyway it is a good info, thank you for that.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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8/30/2013 10:14:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:00:34 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/30/2013 11:34:19 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

Let me clarify a bit more. Socialism is a widely misused term. Socialism is when the means of production is publicly owned, and communism is the abolition of private property.

Radical Liberals aka Liberals are in individualists who favor progressive economics. Progressive economics includes things like social justice, Keynesianism, subsidization, and so on.

Isn't that exactly what they did? How can one being economically progressive and pursuit social justice without strong degree of public ownership (unless they consider the free market itself as a social justice). I still think even under this definition, they would still fit in the category of socialist than most.

Anyway it is a good info, thank you for that.

No, social justice is not the same as public ownership. Social Justice is the redistribution of advantages in society, whereas socialism is the public ownership of the means of production.
Some examples of socialism are; National Healthcare, Syndicalism, Collective Bargaining, and and so on.

Some examples of social justice are; anti-trust regulations, minimum wage laws, child labor laws, and affirmative action.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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8/31/2013 12:26:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/30/2013 10:14:56 PM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2013 10:00:34 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/30/2013 11:34:19 AM, DanT wrote:
At 8/30/2013 1:03:52 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/28/2013 9:57:52 AM, DanT wrote:
OK I am assuming this is an economic question, not a political one.

Liberalism in economics refers to the doctrine of Laissez-faire, because true liberals are classic liberals. Unlike modern political liberals, economic liberals still hold true to classical liberal ideals. Modern liberals are not neoliberals, they are radical liberals. The split between radical liberals and classic liberals took place at the turn of the 19th century. Radical liberals are left wing (reformist), as opposed to classic liberals which tends to side with the right (traditionalists).

Neoliberalism is new liberalism, or a new approach to liberalism. Neoliberals would likely hold neoclassical economic views.

Neoconservatism is not an economic term, but rather a political term. Like neoliberalism, neoconservatives take a new approach to conservatism.

so neoliberal = classic liberal, liberal = left wing socialist?

Let me clarify a bit more. Socialism is a widely misused term. Socialism is when the means of production is publicly owned, and communism is the abolition of private property.

Radical Liberals aka Liberals are in individualists who favor progressive economics. Progressive economics includes things like social justice, Keynesianism, subsidization, and so on.

Isn't that exactly what they did? How can one being economically progressive and pursuit social justice without strong degree of public ownership (unless they consider the free market itself as a social justice). I still think even under this definition, they would still fit in the category of socialist than most.

Anyway it is a good info, thank you for that.

No, social justice is not the same as public ownership. Social Justice is the redistribution of advantages in society, whereas socialism is the public ownership of the means of production.
Some examples of socialism are; National Healthcare, Syndicalism, Collective Bargaining, and and so on.

Some examples of social justice are; anti-trust regulations, minimum wage laws, child labor laws, and affirmative action.

I see, it lean toward the left but not to the point of socialism.
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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9/1/2013 12:31:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dan is just guessing, I'm afraid, and having bad luck. Neoconservatism is social and economic liberalism dominated by extreme Hawkishness. Neoliberalism is a modern reiteration of classical liberalism, this time acknowledging that laissez-faire capitalism is unnatural (i.e. must be imposed), unfair (i.e. Locke's proviso is violated) and unequal, but advocating it anyway.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/14/2013 1:10:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 5:22:28 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 8/25/2013 5:36:43 PM, Cowboy0108 wrote:
Neoconservative is just a militaristic conservative, like myself. Neoliberal is quite similar to a liberal.

err.. that seem to be completely contradicted remark from the guy who mentioned it above..

Can you be more specific? What exactly is the neoconservative trait that distinguished it from both the traditional conservative and neoliberal?

Neoconservatives are actually liberals with a much more hawkish foreign policy. They believe in the welfare state, but advocate a much more aggressive foreign policy stance than even conservatives, many of whom adhere to a somewhat libertarian mindset of non-interventionalism. Neoconservatives on the other hand were historically extremely anti-communist, and are currently pro-Israel and anti-China, and are very much willing to utilize military force to achieve their objectives.

Neoconservatives got a really bad rap in the Bush administration due to their advocacy of the war in Iraq, and how extremely poorly that war turned out for US interests. They are also associated with the religious right, and with nation-building exercises, both of which are still stigmatic and problematic when viewed in the rubric of the Iraq war.

---

You don't really hear too much about neoliberals in America, to my knowledge there is not much strength in the movement here, as the word "liberal" has been thoroughly demonized in America. Politicians like Hillary Clinton call themselves "progressive" now instead of liberal. I don't know much at all about this movement.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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9/14/2013 1:19:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My understanding is that basically, you have a liberal Democrat that got scared by how the country turned in Vietnam, how the Democrats got more and more associated with the counter-culture movement and how foreign policy looked more and more brittle. These liberals became a lot more hawkish, and a lot more moderate in their social views, and especially via the hawkishness, redefined themselves as neo-conservatives.

I don't know what this is doing in the economics section though...there aren't any real prominent neo-conservative economic perspectives, to my knowledge.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Adam2
Posts: 1,024
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1/22/2014 10:22:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Neocons are basically big government republicans are far from being conservative. They tend to favor a very strong aggressive policy. Real conservatives are against that and believe in staying out of foreign country's affairs. Neocons and liberals are driving our country insane.