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$15 Minimum Wage Consequences

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/5/2013 5:57:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, people really are still this ignorant of economic reality. This interesting article delves into likely unseen consequences of a $15 minimum wage.
http://watchdog.org...
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DanT
Posts: 5,693
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9/5/2013 1:13:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 5:57:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, people really are still this ignorant of economic reality. This interesting article delves into likely unseen consequences of a $15 minimum wage.
http://watchdog.org...

God no! It is already hard enough finding a job. You should never raise minimum wage during a labor surplus.

It would make it impossible to enter the workforce. Maybe in a few decades when after inflation has devalued the dollar, but not in today's market.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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9/7/2013 11:06:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 5:57:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, people really are still this ignorant of economic reality. This interesting article delves into likely unseen consequences of a $15 minimum wage.
http://watchdog.org...

So many people are out of work; yet, according to the numbers the private job sector is growing.... Growing where...? The service industry. The jobs people with a higher education and more experience in the work force under their belt do not want. People who when things were going great made statements like, "These people should be grateful for what they get; they have little to no experience, and their freshly out of high school." Now, the shoe is on the other foot, and they're taking several service industry jobs to merely survive; they're saying the pay is too little.... What hypocrites!

However, that's how most people are. Everything's going great, as long as they're not the ones' suffering.
mathdebator
Posts: 72
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9/8/2013 9:42:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If they have more money, then they can spend more. I think. I don't know.

If they really love flipping burgers, then they sure can flip all the burgers they want.

People need to quit circlejerking their money around and live!
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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9/9/2013 9:40:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was unawares that people should stop looking out for their self interests for the good of the entire nation.

If that is how folks should operate then we should all spend more money this week and for a duration until unemployment is normalized.

In other terms can you really fault them for trying to get min wage as high as possible? Don't try to sell me well off people don't support government legislation that benefits them..............

Oh I get it..... those struggling for living basics should do what is good for the nation and those who are well to do don't have to live by the creedo....... I forgot.

Now if our legislators changed min wage from $7 and what ever to $15 then they should deserve the wrath of shame for being foolish.

This article is just another subtle way to demonize the poor while giving the rich a free pass. Aka. The poor should do what is good for the nation, but the rich..well...everything they do is good for the nation.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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9/9/2013 9:44:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I forgot to mention the entire argument that increased wages will result in automatic ordering systems is bogus. That is going to happen whether there is an increase in min wage or not.

How consumers react to using ordering systems has much more to do with the adoption of that technology because it is already a cost savings at the current labor rate.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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9/9/2013 9:49:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/9/2013 9:44:48 AM, slo1 wrote:
I forgot to mention the entire argument that increased wages will result in automatic ordering systems is bogus. That is going to happen whether there is an increase in min wage or not.

How consumers react to using ordering systems has much more to do with the adoption of that technology because it is already a cost savings at the current labor rate.

Not only that, but it would be good to force automation technology because that increases the number of higher level tech jobs that need to fix that technology. It just astounds me that increase productivity is demonized in an article from someone who is obviously supporting free markets.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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9/12/2013 6:30:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
That would kill my chances of finding a job...and kill off small businesses... :/
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

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leojm
Posts: 1,825
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9/12/2013 7:43:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/5/2013 1:13:06 PM, DanT wrote:
At 9/5/2013 5:57:58 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Yes, people really are still this ignorant of economic reality. This interesting article delves into likely unseen consequences of a $15 minimum wage.
http://watchdog.org...

God no! It is already hard enough finding a job. You should never raise minimum wage during a labor surplus.

It would make it impossible to enter the workforce. Maybe in a few decades when after inflation has devalued the dollar, but not in today's market.

agreed!
artyom
Posts: 8
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9/25/2013 9:45:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 9/9/2013 9:40:38 AM, slo1 wrote:
I was unawares that people should stop looking out for their self interests for the good of the entire nation.

If that is how folks should operate then we should all spend more money this week and for a duration until unemployment is normalized.

In other terms can you really fault them for trying to get min wage as high as possible? Don't try to sell me well off people don't support government legislation that benefits them..............

Oh I get it..... those struggling for living basics should do what is good for the nation and those who are well to do don't have to live by the creedo....... I forgot.

Now if our legislators changed min wage from $7 and what ever to $15 then they should deserve the wrath of shame for being foolish.

This article is just another subtle way to demonize the poor while giving the rich a free pass. Aka. The poor should do what is good for the nation, but the rich..well...everything they do is good for the nation.

very interesting arguments/opinions both here and in your next 2 posts. My macroecon classes never mentioned this side of the story ))
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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9/26/2013 7:36:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The article described taxes and franchise fees as "fixed costs", and that's not accurate. Franchise fees are typically revenue-based anyway, but obviously the franchiser would rather lower the fee than let its franchises become unprofitable and fail to be renewed. Similarly, with the exception of property taxes, taxes are not a fixed cost; and likewise, the government would rather lower property taxes than its lots be abandoned.
ironknight47
Posts: 3
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9/29/2013 12:47:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think the only time where the minimum wage will go up to $15/hr is when no one is willing to work for the current minimum wage. And, obviously, there are a lot of people who are willing to work for $7.25/hr.
blueberry_crepe
Posts: 25
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10/19/2013 10:58:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1) Current research from Berekely (2011) shows that min wage increases doesn't necessarily cause less jobs (tested using restaurants, and controlled for location)

2) I think there is a greater normative claim here. First, it doesn't matter what people are willing to do, but what is good for them based on objective measures. Of course if the option is between no money and 5 dollars assuming that it allows them to survive albeit very weakly, then they will choose the 5 dollars. The moral question is it alright to allow people to live in a way that is borderline a human rights crisis. And so we make an ethical claim that its better to have less people working at a dignified salary than many people working but in poverty. I think conservatives would agree too. For example, if we make wages at 1$ an hour, then everyone can have a job since producers can hire way more people. But is it really good to give everyone a job at 1$/hour? No. For the reason the answer is "no" is the reason, albeit to a lesser extent, minimum wage should be 15$ (we are arguing that 10$ per hour isn't a living wage)
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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10/20/2013 10:55:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/19/2013 10:58:06 PM, blueberry_crepe wrote:
1) Current research from Berekely (2011) shows that min wage increases doesn't necessarily cause less jobs (tested using restaurants, and controlled for location)

But without a theory of why MW increases don't increase unemployment, and a test of that theory, the Berkeley study is vulnerable to all sorts of criticisms. Some, centered around hours and composition, have been voiced by conservatives; however, there are also other possible criticisms that the Protestant Work Ethic prevents conservatives from considering. These criticisms center around the added burdens imposed on workers by employers leveraging the higher wage; as long as the authority to hire and fire remains with the capitalist, it stands to reason that if one possible expression of the one-sided exchange relation is outlawed (e.g. a low wage), it will find expression elsewhere (harder or more onerous work, a longer commute, irregular or undesirable shifts, etc.).
a_saved_charismatic
Posts: 2
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10/31/2013 9:37:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hello,

I just wanted to share my findings based on the mini-simulation I undertook using Excel and system dynamics methodology.

Based on the simulation results, I found out that doing away with minimum wage and instituting enforced profit-sharing scheme within businesses, will significantly increase employment, while insignificantly increasing prices and demand for goods, leaving everything else the same.

The simulation used the relationships portrayed at the following link (see below), with the node relationships carrying strengths of a weight from 0 to 1, and relationships being only either direct/positive (*x) or indirect/negative (*1/x). The simulation was based on 1000 iterations and the starting values were 10 per each node.

https://drive.google.com...
https://drive.google.com...
a_saved_charismatic
Posts: 2
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10/31/2013 10:43:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
... adding to the post just posted, after adding more connections in the diagram (see below for updated diagram). The simulation results yield as follows (still lower unemployment, but now better other indicators, except the greatly increased demand, which means increased load on resources, and, given current unsustainable world practices--immoral and hypocritical behavior towards children who are to inherit depleted and junk-filled world):

https://drive.google.com...
https://drive.google.com...
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/1/2013 4:03:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was always against minimum wage but now I sort of realize we can't have half as.s government control of the economy. That is the fed can pump money into the economy but that money never actually makes it down to the wage earners. If there wasn't an easy money policy and artificial inflation didn't exist then there shouldn't be a minimum wage but as long as our central bank is debasing the currency for benefits that only reach the wealthy it's hard to argue the minimum wage shouldn't be raised. It would force companies to either not take as large a profit or innovate/layoff something else to avoid hiring.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,241
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11/2/2013 4:11:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/1/2013 4:03:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I was always against minimum wage but now I sort of realize we can't have half as.s government control of the economy. That is the fed can pump money into the economy but that money never actually makes it down to the wage earners. If there wasn't an easy money policy and artificial inflation didn't exist then there shouldn't be a minimum wage but as long as our central bank is debasing the currency for benefits that only reach the wealthy it's hard to argue the minimum wage shouldn't be raised. It would force companies to either not take as large a profit or innovate/layoff something else to avoid hiring.

That's funny! Fighting cronyism with...cronyism.
CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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11/5/2013 11:26:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/2/2013 4:11:50 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 11/1/2013 4:03:36 PM, lewis20 wrote:
I was always against minimum wage but now I sort of realize we can't have half as.s government control of the economy. That is the fed can pump money into the economy but that money never actually makes it down to the wage earners. If there wasn't an easy money policy and artificial inflation didn't exist then there shouldn't be a minimum wage but as long as our central bank is debasing the currency for benefits that only reach the wealthy it's hard to argue the minimum wage shouldn't be raised. It would force companies to either not take as large a profit or innovate/layoff something else to avoid hiring.

That's funny! Fighting cronyism with...cronyism.

Compare to fighting fire with...fire. Fire is of course an effective tool for fighting wildfires, a fact that should baffle only the terminally unimaginative. Similarly, in economics we have the proven and (presumably consequently) uncontroversial theory of the second best. So if you want to challenge the particulars of Lewis' argument (and they are indeed ripe for challenging), do so, but reflexive incredulity at the mere suggestion that what would be in optimal contexts inefficient can be in certain suboptimal contexts efficient, is akin to an incredulous response to a firefighter's insistence that he has helped matters by burning a small band of plant life in a great fire's path.