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Meritocratic Currency

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.
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fnord
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
FREEDO
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11/26/2013 1:30:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?

As normal. On a market.
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fnord
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/26/2013 1:32:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 1:30:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?

As normal. On a market.

But if I don't have capital, but an unreducible stack of IOUs, what exactly am I selling?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
FREEDO
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11/26/2013 2:00:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 1:32:41 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:30:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?

As normal. On a market.

But if I don't have capital, but an unreducible stack of IOUs, what exactly am I selling?

You have capital. They aren't IOUs. You sell whatever you want. It's only a different monatery system.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/26/2013 2:10:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 2:00:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:32:41 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:30:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?

As normal. On a market.

But if I don't have capital, but an unreducible stack of IOUs, what exactly am I selling?

You have capital. They aren't IOUs. You sell whatever you want. It's only a different monatery system.

Hmm, so how does this work with consumables such as food? Does earning food for life mean that you will be fed for life or that you will receive a ration of food which you may do with as you please?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/26/2013 2:42:56 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 2:10:11 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
Hmm, so how does this work with consumables such as food? Does earning food for life mean that you will be fed for life or that you will receive a ration of food which you may do with as you please?

You don't have infinite food. But it is easily affordable, assuming you don't spend all your money at once. It isn't rationed.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/26/2013 2:52:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
How do you overcome the massive allocation problem this will create?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/26/2013 9:03:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 2:00:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:32:41 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:30:27 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/26/2013 1:21:53 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
OK, fine, lol. How does trade work? How can I sell stuff?

As normal. On a market.

But if I don't have capital, but an unreducible stack of IOUs, what exactly am I selling?

You have capital. They aren't IOUs. You sell whatever you want. It's only a different monatery system.

And this doesn't really answer the question. Let's say I have 40 credits, and a table, and my my neighbor has 60 credits and no table. How do I sell my table to my neighbor?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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11/26/2013 6:41:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.

Sounds like there would be allot of inflation. The monetary demand = the Marginal Revenue Product of Money = the change in Nominal Output / Change in Money.
If the monetary supply increases faster than the nominal output the currency would buy less, and if the monetary demand increased faster than the monetary supply the currency would buy more.

The optimal rate of growth in the monetary supply is equivalent to the growth of Nominal Output. Under your system the monetary supply would grow faster than output, so the prices will also increase to compensate for the growth in money.

A better alternative would be to set up the monetary supply in such a way that it increases in proportion to output, thereby stabilizing prices.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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11/27/2013 7:09:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.

How much weed have you had to smoke?
Thank you for voting!
ax123man
Posts: 317
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11/28/2013 10:34:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is no magical solution that eliminates the problem of infinite wants and finite resources. But that doesn"t stop people from trying. Economics is the one discipline humans have yet effectively dealt with. Here"s a pretty good example of how easily people get confused: http://samvak.tripod.com...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/30/2013 12:51:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 2:52:33 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
How do you overcome the massive allocation problem this will create?

At 11/26/2013 9:03:44 AM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
And this doesn't really answer the question. Let's say I have 40 credits, and a table, and my my neighbor has 60 credits and no table. How do I sell my table to my neighbor?

Your confusion here is thinking that this proposal relates to a difference in the means of production. It doesn't. It only concerns the way money works.

It is based, firstly, on what I will call "solid-earning". Once you have earned something, you will continue to be the rewards for the rest of your life.

There are two possible ways this could be done. One could imply the need for a change in the way production operates. The other--the one I purposed--does not.

In the first, money is not "spent". All the money you acquire adds up to a score. This score allows you higher rations and a higher level of luxury products.

In the second, money is spent but you eventually earn it back based on some arbitrary time-table. Which, if anything, could be compared to the idea of a universal basic income, although different.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/30/2013 1:04:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 6:41:09 PM, DanT wrote:
At 11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.

Sounds like there would be allot of inflation. The monetary demand = the Marginal Revenue Product of Money = the change in Nominal Output / Change in Money.
If the monetary supply increases faster than the nominal output the currency would buy less, and if the monetary demand increased faster than the monetary supply the currency would buy more.

The optimal rate of growth in the monetary supply is equivalent to the growth of Nominal Output. Under your system the monetary supply would grow faster than output, so the prices will also increase to compensate for the growth in money.

A better alternative would be to set up the monetary supply in such a way that it increases in proportion to output, thereby stabilizing prices.

That's good and expected to point out. In the last post I made, I pointed out two systems. I concede that, unaltered, the second system would experience inflation. The first would not.

However, it would also eliminate the demand for welfare, and could thus conceivably be seen as a replacement system, in much the way Milton Friedman proposed a negative income tax. Yes, there would be inflation. But not more than we have now.

However still, you could adjust things to make it work however you want. This proposed system already assumes that we've adopted some electronic monetary system, where it's easy to change the rules, actually allowing us to reinvent the way money works for the first time. Inflation can be countered with an automatic flat tax. Or by decreasing the amount people earn back.

And no one says that a government needs to force this currency on anyone. If electronic currency allows us to reinvent money, it shouldn't be hard to sell that system to people for voluntary use if there's really any worthwhile innovation.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/30/2013 1:04:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/27/2013 7:09:13 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.

How much weed have you had to smoke?

5 whole weeds
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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11/30/2013 1:11:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is, in fact, a third system. Also only possible through electronic currency.

Rather than any transaction having a certain amount paid out at once, all transactions are payed out with a rate over time. For both selling and buying.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/30/2013 1:53:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/26/2013 6:41:09 PM, DanT wrote:
At 11/23/2013 10:33:37 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What would the economy be like if, instead of spending money, we racked it up like a point score? The higher your score, the more you can afford during a certain time-frame. Being "broke" is no longer a concept. When you earn something, you earn it for life.

Sounds like there would be allot of inflation. The monetary demand = the Marginal Revenue Product of Money = the change in Nominal Output / Change in Money.
If the monetary supply increases faster than the nominal output the currency would buy less, and if the monetary demand increased faster than the monetary supply the currency would buy more.

The optimal rate of growth in the monetary supply is equivalent to the growth of Nominal Output. Under your system the monetary supply would grow faster than output, so the prices will also increase to compensate for the growth in money.

A better alternative would be to set up the monetary supply in such a way that it increases in proportion to output, thereby stabilizing prices.

Am I the only one here who feels that this post is highly difficult to comprehend? I understand it, but only after unpackaging it, breaking it down, and then re-interpreting it.
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/30/2013 5:39:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't get what exactly you mean. What do you mean by meritocracy? I assume you're offering this as a counter alternative to the current method of creating new money via federal reserve's open market exchange or via fractional reserve banking. So how would new money be created under your system.
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CarefulNow
Posts: 780
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12/16/2013 8:44:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/30/2013 12:51:00 AM, FREEDO wrote:
In the first, money is not "spent". All the money you acquire adds up to a score. This score allows you higher rations and a higher level of luxury products.

So essentially a geriatocratic labor voucher.

In the second, money is spent but you eventually earn it back based on some arbitrary time-table. Which, if anything, could be compared to the idea of a universal basic income, although different.

Different in every way except the income aspect, in fact. This second proposal would encourage excessive spending. For example, A sells something to B, who sells it back to A, and so on, as they both enrich their future selves though they're contributing nothing.