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Honor-System Economy

FREEDO
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12/14/2013 5:06:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What are your thoughts on a market economy where prices have been abolished and replaced with an honor-system for payment?

This implies that sellers suggest a price and buyers are ultimately free to pay what they want, while being expected to pay the suggested price, within reason. The system is not enforced by law but is adopted through precedent and social norm. It's much like a gift-economy which pretends to be a market-economy. Most of the time, it would act like a market-economy, but with the built in check n' balance of price freedom to keep control on poverty and wealth inequality.

This type of system would become inefficient if culture became overly influenced by dishonesty. Assuming such a society exists because it evolved out of a highly honest society, it should be a good candidate for overall stability.
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fnord
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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12/14/2013 5:21:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, it would certainly speed up the invisible hand.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

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dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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12/14/2013 5:45:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/14/2013 5:06:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What are your thoughts on a market economy where prices have been abolished and replaced with an honor-system for payment?

This implies that sellers suggest a price and buyers are ultimately free to pay what they want, while being expected to pay the suggested price, within reason. The system is not enforced by law but is adopted through precedent and social norm. It's much like a gift-economy which pretends to be a market-economy. Most of the time, it would act like a market-economy, but with the built in check n' balance of price freedom to keep control on poverty and wealth inequality.

This type of system would become inefficient if culture became overly influenced by dishonesty. Assuming such a society exists because it evolved out of a highly honest society, it should be a good candidate for overall stability.

I think it's a pathetic fantasy as far as humanity is concerned.
yay842
Posts: 5,680
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12/14/2013 5:46:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
how about, we work and we give for free and there's no such thing as money because everything in the universe is ours and ours to share with ourselves
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dylancatlow
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12/14/2013 5:50:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/14/2013 5:06:28 PM, FREEDO wrote:
What are your thoughts on a market economy where prices have been abolished and replaced with an honor-system for payment?

This implies that sellers suggest a price and buyers are ultimately free to pay what they want, while being expected to pay the suggested price, within reason. The system is not enforced by law but is adopted through precedent and social norm. It's much like a gift-economy which pretends to be a market-economy. Most of the time, it would act like a market-economy, but with the built in check n' balance of price freedom to keep control on poverty and wealth inequality.

This type of system would become inefficient if culture became overly influenced by dishonesty. Assuming such a society exists because it evolved out of a highly honest society, it should be a good candidate for overall stability.

I guess it's sort of already been implemented in the restaurant business, but I don't see it working for everything.
FREEDO
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12/15/2013 9:03:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/14/2013 5:45:01 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think it's a pathetic fantasy as far as humanity is concerned.

Your knack for intellectual prose and clear eloquence for communicating the issues with my presented concept and your humbling display of productively excellent contribution to the discussion at hand has shaken me of my childish ignorance. Thank you.

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
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fnord
FREEDO
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12/15/2013 9:13:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
A funny thing I've realized about how normal people think about politics and the way I think about politics, is that the systems these people adhere to are all under the assumption that human society is already broken. And then they actually expect their systems to succeed.

But I don't want to assume a broken society. I want a society where people can get along and be trusted. If I can't have that, then politics is a lost cause anyway. Because no matter what system you choose, it's going to fail if the people who live in it are failures.
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fnord
dylancatlow
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12/15/2013 9:19:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:03:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/14/2013 5:45:01 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I think it's a pathetic fantasy as far as humanity is concerned.

Your knack for intellectual prose and clear eloquence for communicating the issues with my presented concept and your humbling display of productively excellent contribution to the discussion at hand has shaken me of my childish ignorance. Thank you.

Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

I answered the question you posed. No need to get this sassy.
FREEDO
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12/15/2013 9:31:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:19:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I answered the question you posed. No need to get this sassy.

If I wanted to be sassy, I would have pointed out that it's improper forum-etiquette to waste people's time. But I enjoy any communication, even when it's not productive. So I didn't say that.

Now, true, I asked for your thoughts. But is that your only thought?

I would enjoy seeing your reasons for this thought. Although I would have enjoyed it more if you already assumed this, without me needing to explicitly point it out.
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fnord
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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12/15/2013 9:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I actually like the idea, but the biggest problem I perceive as you pointed out in your OP is that it assumes people would be honest. This happens on a small scale already (indie game sites that sell selected bundles for a set minimum and where you choose how much you want to pay, with the funds distributed to either the game devs or charity), and it works. Perhaps it could then work on a larger scale? No bloody clue how it would but it's an interesting thought.

Also @dylan don't be so miserable. There are too many a**holes in this world, let's all relax a little.
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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12/15/2013 9:57:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Really everyone should just smoke weed and have sex with each other. A weed sex economy? This may also work?
dylancatlow
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12/15/2013 10:10:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:31:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/15/2013 9:19:00 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I answered the question you posed. No need to get this sassy.

If I wanted to be sassy, I would have pointed out that it's improper forum-etiquette to waste people's time. But I enjoy any communication, even when it's not productive. So I didn't say that.

rolf this is at least as sassy if you had "actually" said it...

Now, true, I asked for your thoughts. But is that your only thought?

I would enjoy seeing your reasons for this thought. Although I would have enjoyed it more if you already assumed this, without me needing to explicitly point it out.

I think people, regardless of their honesty, would gravitate toward paying as little as they could get away it (as they should). This would result in goods being under supplied and would largely destroy competition. Also, for it to work, it would require that some men act against their rational moral code.
dylancatlow
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12/15/2013 10:12:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:57:57 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
Really everyone should just smoke weed and have sex with each other. A weed sex economy? This may also work?

I don't speak that language.
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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12/15/2013 10:19:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 10:12:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/15/2013 9:57:57 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
Really everyone should just smoke weed and have sex with each other. A weed sex economy? This may also work?

I don't speak that language.

The language of love?

As far as your comment about people would default to paying as little as possible, I'm not so sure this would always be the case. Sure perhaps the majority would but depending on the product you'd get generous donations that would compensate for the majority being cheap b*stards. Again I'm using indie gaming sites as the prototypical example.

Since word of mouth is a powerful profit drive and having your product more easily accessible to those with less money and means to purchase something at it's RRP maybe businesses would view a voluntary payment scheme as a good business opportunity.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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12/15/2013 10:25:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 10:19:34 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
At 12/15/2013 10:12:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/15/2013 9:57:57 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
Really everyone should just smoke weed and have sex with each other. A weed sex economy? This may also work?

I don't speak that language.

The language of love?

As far as your comment about people would default to paying as little as possible, I'm not so sure this would always be the case. Sure perhaps the majority would but depending on the product you'd get generous donations that would compensate for the majority being cheap b*stards. Again I'm using indie gaming sites as the prototypical example.

Since word of mouth is a powerful profit drive and having your product more easily accessible to those with less money and means to purchase something at it's RRP maybe businesses would view a voluntary payment scheme as a good business opportunity.

The language of idealistic teens more enamored over feel-good notions than reality.
InvictusManeo
Posts: 384
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12/15/2013 10:30:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think you need a healthy mix of idealism and realism. We need people like FREEDO and people like you to pull and stretch the social conscience to lead to a plausible equilibrium.

You could seriously do with lightening up, though. I can feel your cold-calculativeness radiating through my screen.
dylancatlow
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12/15/2013 10:31:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 10:30:42 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
I think you need a healthy mix of idealism and realism. We need people like FREEDO and people like you to pull and stretch the social conscience to lead to a plausible equilibrium.

You could seriously do with lightening up, though. I can feel your cold-calculativeness radiating through my screen.

That's the drugs, kid.
InvictusManeo
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12/15/2013 10:32:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 10:31:37 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/15/2013 10:30:42 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
I think you need a healthy mix of idealism and realism. We need people like FREEDO and people like you to pull and stretch the social conscience to lead to a plausible equilibrium.

You could seriously do with lightening up, though. I can feel your cold-calculativeness radiating through my screen.

That's the drugs, kid.

Drugs only reveal what is there already, actual kid.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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12/16/2013 8:01:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 10:10:58 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
rolf this is at least as sassy if you had "actually" said it...

Lol, I know, I was being an ass.

I think people, regardless of their honesty, would gravitate toward paying as little as they could get away it (as they should). This would result in goods being under supplied and would largely destroy competition. Also, for it to work, it would require that some men act against their rational moral code.

This is under the assumption that human nature is always the same, which it isn't. The only thing that stays the same about human nature is that it always changes and that it's highly influenced by context. When people are born and raised in a society where they are expected to make honest payment, it strongly increases the chances that they will comply.

You're also assuming that it's rational to abuse the system, which isn't necessarily true. If you're in poverty, it's rational and expected for someone to take advantage of the choice, which, yes, they should. But there's a certain point at which the reward doesn't surpass the social cost. This can be reinforced by releasing public lists of continuous abusers.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/16/2013 8:05:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I should point out that this type of system could also be implemented based on donations, rather than an honor-system. Which is something that we see pop up all the time on the internet, especially through cryptocurrencies. Contrary to much ideological thought, people do like to be generous and like to reward.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
OberHerr
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12/16/2013 8:06:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I doubt its ability to work based on how bad just about everyone in my high-school class alone is with trust issues.
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FREEDO
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12/16/2013 8:08:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/15/2013 9:57:57 PM, InvictusManeo wrote:
Really everyone should just smoke weed and have sex with each other. A weed sex economy? This may also work?

FINALLY. Another prophet has come.

Click the link in my signature. You deserve a position in the empire.
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fnord
ClassicRobert
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12/16/2013 8:11:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyway, I think this is an interesting idea, and I see it as being successful. It reminds me a lot of the price-discriminating models that some firms use- when you can pinpoint exactly how much each individual consumer is willing to pay for a product, you make more profits. This would be an interesting debate topic.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
FREEDO
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12/16/2013 8:12:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 8:06:53 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I doubt its ability to work based on how bad just about everyone in my high-school class alone is with trust issues.

Do you really live in Zimbabwe? That's kinda why.

Americans aren't very trustworthy either though. But there are many societies, such as those in Europe, that have developed very high trustworthiness.

No economy can function without trust. None. Trust is the pillar of a healthy society.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/16/2013 8:13:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 8:11:12 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Anyway, I think this is an interesting idea, and I see it as being successful. It reminds me a lot of the price-discriminating models that some firms use- when you can pinpoint exactly how much each individual consumer is willing to pay for a product, you make more profits. This would be an interesting debate topic.

I'd love to see it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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12/16/2013 8:15:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would consider doing it myself but I really have no interest in ever debating economics again. All of my economic ideas are just ideas, not opinions. I have zero confidence in economic thought.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
OberHerr
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12/16/2013 8:17:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/16/2013 8:12:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 12/16/2013 8:06:53 PM, OberHerr wrote:
I doubt its ability to work based on how bad just about everyone in my high-school class alone is with trust issues.

Do you really live in Zimbabwe? That's kinda why.

Americans aren't very trustworthy either though. But there are many societies, such as those in Europe, that have developed very high trustworthiness.

No economy can function without trust. None. Trust is the pillar of a healthy society.

Yeah, but we set up a bunch of checks and balances so eventually everyone is holding the other guy accountable, or tries to, because humans love to have a "gotcha!' moment. Its kinda an interesting thought. Doesn't always work, but it depends hugely on the society. Who knows, maybe one day we can all trust each other. But the big problem with a trust based system is inevitably some jerk can come in and screw it all up if he wants to.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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