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What May Happen With a High Minimum Wage

Crescendo
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6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.
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Crescendo
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6/6/2014 4:52:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Overall, the field of unskilled labor will be taken over by illegal immigrants. And despite the fact that there are skilled labor jobs out there, many people's first jobs are unskilled labor jobs. And if you're a High School dropout, your life will get much harder.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/7/2014 9:59:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

1. You don't pay minimum wage (or any wage) based solely on quality of work.
2. Which came first: the demand for low cost of goods (due to many low paying jobs), the refusal by Americans to work hard for low pay as fruit pickers, or the influx of illegals wanting jobs?
3. Minimum wage is a bad thing. I agree, but not for these reasons.
My work here is, finally, done.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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6/8/2014 10:50:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/7/2014 9:59:46 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

1. You don't pay minimum wage (or any wage) based solely on quality of work.
2. Which came first: the demand for low cost of goods (due to many low paying jobs), the refusal by Americans to work hard for low pay as fruit pickers, or the influx of illegals wanting jobs?
3. Minimum wage is a bad thing. I agree, but not for these reasons.

If have some iffs on the minimum wage. We know a couple things for sure....

- There will be immediate job loss

- Depending on the increase, anything under 10.56 will eventually recover the jobs

- There will be at least a couple dozen billion that will go back into the economy.

The strongest argument against the minimum wage has been the immediate job loss one, although I would stand to reason that the long term recovery would make it worth it.

If you go by each parties surveys, 80% of the Democrats want to raise the wage, 50% of the republicans, and 70% of independents. That should count for something.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/9/2014 7:30:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/7/2014 9:59:46 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

1. You don't pay minimum wage (or any wage) based solely on quality of work.

LOL The demand for Labor by Employers is based on the Marginal Revenue Product of Labor. In other words, how much Revenue each additional unit of labor will produce. Therefore the natural wage demanded per hour of an individual will depend on the amount of revenue per hour which that individual contributes. The amount of revenue an individual contributes depends on their Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities (KSAs) relevant to the job which they were employed to do.

The Supply of Labor depends on the leisure labor preference; that is to say one's preference towards labor over leisure. A higher minimum wage will increase the supply of labor, by increasing the worker's preference towards labor over leisure, but it will decrease the demand for labor, by eliminating all labor which would produce less revenue per hour than the minimal wage allows. Large corporations capable of taking such a loss would thus gain a monopsony on unskilled labor, provided they are willing to do so.

2. Which came first: the demand for low cost of goods (due to many low paying jobs), the refusal by Americans to work hard for low pay as fruit pickers, or the influx of illegals wanting jobs?
Working hard for low pay is better than being out of work. All these people leaching off tax payers through unemployment benefits could be working these jobs instead.
3. Minimum wage is a bad thing. I agree, but not for these reasons.

At least you agree minimum wage is bad.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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6/9/2014 8:18:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/9/2014 7:30:44 PM, DanT wrote:
At 6/7/2014 9:59:46 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

1. You don't pay minimum wage (or any wage) based solely on quality of work.

LOL The demand for Labor by Employers is based on the Marginal Revenue Product of Labor. In other words, how much Revenue each additional unit of labor will produce. Therefore the natural wage demanded per hour of an individual will depend on the amount of revenue per hour which that individual contributes. The amount of revenue an individual contributes depends on their Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities (KSAs) relevant to the job which they were employed to do.

The Supply of Labor depends on the leisure labor preference; that is to say one's preference towards labor over leisure. A higher minimum wage will increase the supply of labor, by increasing the worker's preference towards labor over leisure, but it will decrease the demand for labor, by eliminating all labor which would produce less revenue per hour than the minimal wage allows. Large corporations capable of taking such a loss would thus gain a monopsony on unskilled labor, provided they are willing to do so.

In theory, yes.
However, as I said, quality of work is not what wages are generally based on.
If you are a better worker than another, you are more likely to be given preferential treatment (better hours, time off requested) than be paid more.

If not, why are people "overqualified"?
Why do most companies have a pay scale, of which, regardless of how well you work, you cannot be higher than (perhaps, a cashier at Target can make between $8-10).
It clearly has nothing to do with quality, and, to be honest, if you have better quality, you will tend to go where it is rewarded better (i.e. better pay)

2. Which came first: the demand for low cost of goods (due to many low paying jobs), the refusal by Americans to work hard for low pay as fruit pickers, or the influx of illegals wanting jobs?
Working hard for low pay is better than being out of work. All these people leaching off tax payers through unemployment benefits could be working these jobs instead.

That isn't really an answer to my question, though.
My work here is, finally, done.
DanT
Posts: 5,693
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6/9/2014 9:59:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/9/2014 8:18:11 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/9/2014 7:30:44 PM, DanT wrote:
At 6/7/2014 9:59:46 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

1. You don't pay minimum wage (or any wage) based solely on quality of work.

LOL The demand for Labor by Employers is based on the Marginal Revenue Product of Labor. In other words, how much Revenue each additional unit of labor will produce. Therefore the natural wage demanded per hour of an individual will depend on the amount of revenue per hour which that individual contributes. The amount of revenue an individual contributes depends on their Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities (KSAs) relevant to the job which they were employed to do.

The Supply of Labor depends on the leisure labor preference; that is to say one's preference towards labor over leisure. A higher minimum wage will increase the supply of labor, by increasing the worker's preference towards labor over leisure, but it will decrease the demand for labor, by eliminating all labor which would produce less revenue per hour than the minimal wage allows. Large corporations capable of taking such a loss would thus gain a monopsony on unskilled labor, provided they are willing to do so.

In theory, yes.
However, as I said, quality of work is not what wages are generally based on.
If you are a better worker than another, you are more likely to be given preferential treatment (better hours, time off requested) than be paid more.

That depends on the stickiness of the company's wage policy. For example; if a company has a paygrade system the wage is likely very sticky, so they have to compensate with preferred hours and treatment.

If not, why are people "overqualified"?
"Overqualified" simply means the candidate's qualifications exceed the job requirement, therefore making the candidate more likely to leave that position. This increases the opportunity cost of hiring that candidate over less qualified candidates.

For example. I was overqualified for my job as a cashier, and my employers immediately recognized this. They therefore offered me a better paying position as soon as one was made available (keep in mind my superiors had to wait for their superiors to approve creating a new job opening).

Why do most companies have a pay scale, of which, regardless of how well you work, you cannot be higher than (perhaps, a cashier at Target can make between $8-10).
Because if you are worth more than $10 per hour, depending on the location, you are overqualified, and therefore you are not being used to your full potential.

It clearly has nothing to do with quality, and, to be honest, if you have better quality, you will tend to go where it is rewarded better (i.e. better pay)

Just like any other market. If I am offering $1,000 for a junk car and $2,000 for a new car, but my neighbor is offering $900 for the junk car and $2,500 for the new car, the owner of the Junk car will sell to me and the owner of the new car will sell to my neighbor.

Same goes for the labor market. Employers compete for employees with better wages and better work environments. However they only compete with other employers within the same market. A retailer will not compete with a bank for employees, regardless of whether or not many if not most of the qualifications for those specific job openings overlap with each-other.


2. Which came first: the demand for low cost of goods (due to many low paying jobs), the refusal by Americans to work hard for low pay as fruit pickers, or the influx of illegals wanting jobs?
Working hard for low pay is better than being out of work. All these people leaching off tax payers through unemployment benefits could be working these jobs instead.

That isn't really an answer to my question, though.

It renders your question irrelevant, because answering the question would imply your fictional scenario exists. Americans didn't refuse to work hard for low pay. It was simply made illegal to work below a certain wage. Americans were thus given the choice to break the law with an illegal wage or to accept money from the state for doing nothing.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/11/2014 7:17:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:52:00 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Overall, the field of unskilled labor will be taken over by illegal immigrants. And despite the fact that there are skilled labor jobs out there, many people's first jobs are unskilled labor jobs. And if you're a High School dropout, your life will get much harder.

From what I can see, having a college degree coupled with $50,000 in debt to pay for it isn't proving to be all that lucrative either.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
slo1
Posts: 4,346
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6/14/2014 10:03:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

A number of observations on your post.

1. Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president.

2. You are starting to realize that the ol' conservative mantra of, " Just enforce the laws we have on the books" is worthless.

3. Easy fix. implement low skill visa program, focus enforcement and efforts on policing companies so they hire people with authorization to work int the US and boom suddenly illegal immigration becomes uneconomical and people voluntarily stay in mexico and central america.

Conservatives are too uptight about the "illegality" of it all to realize the problem is fixed via economics not trying to find and deport 12 million people while hundreds of thousands are still trying to cross.
docstop
Posts: 6
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6/14/2014 3:42:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

I know a lot of discussion has already taken place from this original post, but I would like to ask why there is a comparison between "illegal immigrants," and "citizens." I understand the legal and societal logistics and interpretations that make the two separate and distinct entities, but I just wonder why use these terms to compare the two? Aren't they both human beings trying to make an income to live a happy life for themselves and maybe family?

I am Canadian and a social worker, so I have a different perspective on what minimum wage should look like, which will be different than what is happening in this topic in relation to US. Even with this in mind, I don't think it is necessarily helpful to make an, us vs. them comparison, because, all it takes is a financial recession in the economy and suddenly all are in the same boat trying to get a job no matter what your nationality is.
Never deprive anyone of hope... it may be all they have.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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6/14/2014 5:53:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 10:03:29 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

A number of observations on your post.

1. Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president.

2. You are starting to realize that the ol' conservative mantra of, " Just enforce the laws we have on the books" is worthless.

3. Easy fix. implement low skill visa program, focus enforcement and efforts on policing companies so they hire people with authorization to work int the US and boom suddenly illegal immigration becomes uneconomical and people voluntarily stay in mexico and central america.

Conservatives are too uptight about the "illegality" of it all to realize the problem is fixed via economics not trying to find and deport 12 million people while hundreds of thousands are still trying to cross.

" Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president." This in no way equates to the boarder actually being protected, It means money has been squandered as one can plainly be seen by the massive influx of people coming across our southern boarder. Simply throwing money at something never solves any problem. Just look at the public education system. Every kid in a public school should come out a firkin Einstein if money was a solution. The amount of money wasted in the public education system makes the money wasted at the southern boarder look like chump change. Any ahole above the level of retardation can spend someone else's money.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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6/14/2014 9:09:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is really stupid and not thought out. Its implying that you HAVE to pay the illegal 15$, which you don't, because he's illegal.

Resolution negated.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
ChosenWolff
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6/14/2014 9:10:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 5:53:33 PM, sadolite wrote:

Our border isn't protected under Obama? Immigration rates are at 0%. Including illegal. Obama has appeased the conservatives a lot more than the liberals.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Benshapiro
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6/14/2014 11:08:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The economic effects depend on the degree of the increase.

If minimum wage rises significantly, employers will severely cut worker hours to save on labor costs. This will drive up unemployment and have a recessionary effect throughout the economy. Also, a significant increase in the minimum wage will nullify or greatly reduce the gap between many minimum wage and skilled labor jobs. We would see a drastic migration of people moving into unskilled labor for preferences of lowering job stress/anxiety associated with skilled labor jobs.

If minimum wage rises slightly, employers may not cut worker hours significantly or at all if the profits they receive are still heavily dependent on a fixed amount of labor. Essentially the employer eats the extra costs.

The best possible outcome is raising minimum wage slightly to keep up with inflation and cost of living. It also leaves people with a higher tendency to spend (minimum wage workers) with more money in their pockets rather than in the pockets of their employer where it is more likely to be saved than spent. Consumption is the engine of economic growth.
slo1
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6/15/2014 10:20:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/14/2014 5:53:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/14/2014 10:03:29 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

A number of observations on your post.

1. Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president.

2. You are starting to realize that the ol' conservative mantra of, " Just enforce the laws we have on the books" is worthless.

3. Easy fix. implement low skill visa program, focus enforcement and efforts on policing companies so they hire people with authorization to work int the US and boom suddenly illegal immigration becomes uneconomical and people voluntarily stay in mexico and central america.

Conservatives are too uptight about the "illegality" of it all to realize the problem is fixed via economics not trying to find and deport 12 million people while hundreds of thousands are still trying to cross.

" Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president." This in no way equates to the boarder actually being protected, It means money has been squandered as one can plainly be seen by the massive influx of people coming across our southern boarder. Simply throwing money at something never solves any problem. Just look at the public education system. Every kid in a public school should come out a firkin Einstein if money was a solution. The amount of money wasted in the public education system makes the money wasted at the southern boarder look like chump change. Any ahole above the level of retardation can spend someone else's money.

You right. Exactly the reason why illegal immigration should be controlled via economic policy. Apprehensions at the border peaked during the Clinton administration and they are at a low with Obama. Ironically Obama has over 20k border agents and Clinton had less than 9k. The difference is that during the high there was a labor shortage, during this low time the recession we had an oversupply of labor.

Anyone advocating hiring more border patrol, building fences and trying physical means to eliminate the problem are throwing money down a black hole. The answer is economic policy to make it uneconomical for illegal low skilled labor to come here. This is easily done by the recommendation I made.
sadolite
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6/15/2014 12:59:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/15/2014 10:20:01 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/14/2014 5:53:33 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/14/2014 10:03:29 AM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:45:41 PM, Crescendo wrote:
Okay, so you've got illegals pouring across the border every day. A few years ago there were at least 8 million illegals living here.
http://www.cairco.org...
This number is probably larger by the time that I'm writing this (June, 2014). Also, provided Mr. Obama doesn't do anything about the problem, this number is bound to increase.

So, let's say your name is Wally, and you own a ketchup factory. The minimum wage is now fifteen dollars. So, if you hire a college student who is somewhat unmotivated, you've got to pay him fifteen dollars every hour, and his quality of work may only be worth eight dollars an hour.
But, one day you are approached by Marco and his fifteen brothers. They illegally crossed the border looking for work in the United States. So, they offer to work at your factory for half of what the minimum wage is. You realize that you would be saving a considerable amount of money if you replace all your normal workers with these illegals. Provided you never got caught, you'd make much larger profits.

This is one reason why a really high minimum wage is a bad thing: citizens will not be able to compete in the job market with illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work for half the pay.

A number of observations on your post.

1. Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president.

2. You are starting to realize that the ol' conservative mantra of, " Just enforce the laws we have on the books" is worthless.

3. Easy fix. implement low skill visa program, focus enforcement and efforts on policing companies so they hire people with authorization to work int the US and boom suddenly illegal immigration becomes uneconomical and people voluntarily stay in mexico and central america.

Conservatives are too uptight about the "illegality" of it all to realize the problem is fixed via economics not trying to find and deport 12 million people while hundreds of thousands are still trying to cross.

" Obama has spent more money on border enforcement and hired more border enforcement employees than any other president." This in no way equates to the boarder actually being protected, It means money has been squandered as one can plainly be seen by the massive influx of people coming across our southern boarder. Simply throwing money at something never solves any problem. Just look at the public education system. Every kid in a public school should come out a firkin Einstein if money was a solution. The amount of money wasted in the public education system makes the money wasted at the southern boarder look like chump change. Any ahole above the level of retardation can spend someone else's money.

You right. Exactly the reason why illegal immigration should be controlled via economic policy. Apprehensions at the border peaked during the Clinton administration and they are at a low with Obama. Ironically Obama has over 20k border agents and Clinton had less than 9k. The difference is that during the high there was a labor shortage, during this low time the recession we had an oversupply of labor.

Anyone advocating hiring more border patrol, building fences and trying physical means to eliminate the problem are throwing money down a black hole. The answer is economic policy to make it uneconomical for illegal low skilled labor to come here. This is easily done by the recommendation I made.

The only problem this country has is a enforcement of the rule of law problem.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%