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Is salesman a working class?

suttichart.denpruektham
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9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?
YYW
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9/21/2014 6:12:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

There was once a time where the actual position a person held relatively correlated to their salary. A car salesman, for example, might be middle class but a cellphone salesman is probably more on the lower-middle class side of things. However, a plumber is usually a working class guy, but plumbers (especially unionized ones) make a lot more money than cell phone salesmen. The simple answer is that the middle class includes both the working, and the management whereas the upper class typically includes people who make more than $250,000.00/yr or so.
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Greyparrot
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9/21/2014 6:14:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 6:12:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

There was once a time where the actual position a person held relatively correlated to their salary. A car salesman, for example, might be middle class but a cellphone salesman is probably more on the lower-middle class side of things. However, a plumber is usually a working class guy, but plumbers (especially unionized ones) make a lot more money than cell phone salesmen. The simple answer is that the middle class includes both the working, and the management whereas the upper class typically includes people who make more than $250,000.00/yr or so.

Everyone is kind of a salesman, even if selling services. A lawyer has to convince others to purchase him.
YYW
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9/21/2014 6:15:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 6:14:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/21/2014 6:12:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

There was once a time where the actual position a person held relatively correlated to their salary. A car salesman, for example, might be middle class but a cellphone salesman is probably more on the lower-middle class side of things. However, a plumber is usually a working class guy, but plumbers (especially unionized ones) make a lot more money than cell phone salesmen. The simple answer is that the middle class includes both the working, and the management whereas the upper class typically includes people who make more than $250,000.00/yr or so.

Everyone is kind of a salesman, even if selling services. A lawyer has to convince others to purchase him.

That is true, and I think that there are some lawyers who could be considered working class, too.

Public defenders who bill at $45.00/hr, for example, are definitely working class.
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suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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9/22/2014 11:18:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 6:14:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 9/21/2014 6:12:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

There was once a time where the actual position a person held relatively correlated to their salary. A car salesman, for example, might be middle class but a cellphone salesman is probably more on the lower-middle class side of things. However, a plumber is usually a working class guy, but plumbers (especially unionized ones) make a lot more money than cell phone salesmen. The simple answer is that the middle class includes both the working, and the management whereas the upper class typically includes people who make more than $250,000.00/yr or so.

Everyone is kind of a salesman, even if selling services. A lawyer has to convince others to purchase him.

Well not exactly all, a production workers are not required or allowed to create a net work of client, unless you're referring to finding a job of course.
suttichart.denpruektham
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9/22/2014 11:26:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/21/2014 6:12:36 PM, YYW wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

There was once a time where the actual position a person held relatively correlated to their salary. A car salesman, for example, might be middle class but a cellphone salesman is probably more on the lower-middle class side of things. However, a plumber is usually a working class guy, but plumbers (especially unionized ones) make a lot more money than cell phone salesmen. The simple answer is that the middle class includes both the working, and the management whereas the upper class typically includes people who make more than $250,000.00/yr or so.

hmnn.. it kind of sound either invalid or unreliable definition to me. If we use income to separate one class from another, plumbers or even construction technician would be considered a middle class while hotel reception or telephone operator will be a working class. If divided by nature of their assignment i.e. from those who actually produced something and those who do some paper work or rely on trading skill, the order would be reversed.

If only some element of those criteria are used, then it's probably unreliable, as the poor won't be a working class every time, or trader will not always be middle class - it's all depend on "circumstance" which make the entire classification meaningless.
DanT
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9/22/2014 3:31:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

The working class are wage earners, or anyone who works for their income; this is in contrast to salaried jobs. Hourly managers would fall under the definition of working class, while salaried managers would not. This classification doesn't really have to do with income so much as the basis of their income.

Within the working class there are blue, pink, and white color workers. A blue collar worker is someone who preforms manual labor, a pink collar worker is someone who provides services and interacts directly with customers, and a white collar worker is someone who works in an administrative or professional setting. This classification relates more to the nature of one's work, rather than one's level of income.

Like the two class systems mentioned above, the Upper, Middle, and Lower class does not really relate to income either. Instead Upper, Middle, and Lower classes relate to wealth. Income is money coming in, while wealth is money retained over time. One can have no income and still be Upper class; if this was not the case, the rich would become lower class as soon as they retire.
"Chemical weapons are no different than any other types of weapons."~Lordknukle
debate_power
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12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".
You can call me Mark if you like.
suttichart.denpruektham
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12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.
debate_power
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12/1/2014 3:41:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.

I was referring to employed salesmen. Naturally, all of them aren't "working-class".
You can call me Mark if you like.
suttichart.denpruektham
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12/2/2014 11:28:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/1/2014 3:41:48 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.

I was referring to employed salesmen. Naturally, all of them aren't "working-class".

stock brokers are employed salesman, in fact all salesmen are employed that's why we call them sales and not entrepreneur. However, their working nature tend to be overlapped, people do sales work because they want progressively more income through a network of client - the same purpose any businessman would aspire to, the overly different is that the salesmen are employees and tend to receive support from their parent company (salary and what's not) while the business people work independently.
wrichcirw
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12/4/2014 5:03:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Working class and middle class are not necessarily synonymous with each other. Working class connotes blue-collar, i.e. factory work, construction jobs, manual labor. Some middle class jobs are blue or white-collar, depending upon the wage levels.

A salesperson wouldn't really be "working class" in the sense that they aren't blue-collar. They can be lower, middle, or upper class, like you noted.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
debate_power
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12/5/2014 9:36:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/2/2014 11:28:41 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 3:41:48 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.

I was referring to employed salesmen. Naturally, all of them aren't "working-class".

stock brokers are employed salesman, in fact all salesmen are employed that's why we call them sales and not entrepreneur. However, their working nature tend to be overlapped, people do sales work because they want progressively more income through a network of client - the same purpose any businessman would aspire to, the overly different is that the salesmen are employees and tend to receive support from their parent company (salary and what's not) while the business people work independently.

Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.
You can call me Mark if you like.
suttichart.denpruektham
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12/5/2014 1:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 9:36:48 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/2/2014 11:28:41 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 3:41:48 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.

I was referring to employed salesmen. Naturally, all of them aren't "working-class".

stock brokers are employed salesman, in fact all salesmen are employed that's why we call them sales and not entrepreneur. However, their working nature tend to be overlapped, people do sales work because they want progressively more income through a network of client - the same purpose any businessman would aspire to, the overly different is that the salesmen are employees and tend to receive support from their parent company (salary and what's not) while the business people work independently.

Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.
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12/6/2014 6:35:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/5/2014 1:34:08 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/5/2014 9:36:48 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/2/2014 11:28:41 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 3:41:48 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:29:23 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/1/2014 10:17:05 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 9/17/2014 1:54:45 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Just been thinking, people often associated salesman and marketing with capitalistic economy and established middle class, which is probably true for a sales who has been very successful of his far beyond the call of duty. However, for a common sales folk who can barely meet their monthly target, their career seem to be a lot more in common with the labour people of the working class. They earned less, sometime even less than many of the true labour job such as construction worker, taxi driver, or even restaurant servers (in very extreme case). Sales is also very labour intensive (think it's light? Try talking, driving, and managing your paper work for 18 hours a day and you will know how hard it is) and without a well established network of client, you're practically trade your time and money for cash as a mouthpiece of your company.

Still I am not quite sure if they can be actually considered as one of a kind of middle class, what do you think?

Of course it is a working class, as long as the salesman in question is earning wages. Exploitation through wage-labor denotes exploited individual's being "working class".

but they didn't earn in wages entirely, in fact wages constituted a very small amount in salesman total earning (such as in case of a stock broker) which can be several time the size of wages.

I was referring to employed salesmen. Naturally, all of them aren't "working-class".

stock brokers are employed salesman, in fact all salesmen are employed that's why we call them sales and not entrepreneur. However, their working nature tend to be overlapped, people do sales work because they want progressively more income through a network of client - the same purpose any businessman would aspire to, the overly different is that the salesmen are employees and tend to receive support from their parent company (salary and what's not) while the business people work independently.

Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.
You can call me Mark if you like.
suttichart.denpruektham
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12/7/2014 5:43:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.

The only thing that will miss your definition is that it is paid to manual or unskilled worker which doesn't make any sense if you asked me. Even the business owner must specified his own wage and take it from the finance like the rest of his employee - he's technically employed himself to whatever position he wanted to be (but usually management). And no that's not an option, that's the law, unless your business is illegal or proprietary and is not registered with the government.
debate_power
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12/7/2014 10:56:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 5:43:58 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.

The only thing that will miss your definition is that it is paid to manual or unskilled worker which doesn't make any sense if you asked me. Even the business owner must specified his own wage and take it from the finance like the rest of his employee - he's technically employed himself to whatever position he wanted to be (but usually management). And no that's not an option, that's the law, unless your business is illegal or proprietary and is not registered with the government.

"Especially to a manual or unskilled worker".
You can call me Mark if you like.
suttichart.denpruektham
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12/7/2014 11:17:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 10:56:45 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/7/2014 5:43:58 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.

The only thing that will miss your definition is that it is paid to manual or unskilled worker which doesn't make any sense if you asked me. Even the business owner must specified his own wage and take it from the finance like the rest of his employee - he's technically employed himself to whatever position he wanted to be (but usually management). And no that's not an option, that's the law, unless your business is illegal or proprietary and is not registered with the government.

"Especially to a manual or unskilled worker".

That's effectively mean "only manual and unskilled workers are the working class" as in they will ceased to be working class once they become skilled.
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Posts: 726
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12/7/2014 11:25:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 11:17:35 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/7/2014 10:56:45 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/7/2014 5:43:58 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.

The only thing that will miss your definition is that it is paid to manual or unskilled worker which doesn't make any sense if you asked me. Even the business owner must specified his own wage and take it from the finance like the rest of his employee - he's technically employed himself to whatever position he wanted to be (but usually management). And no that's not an option, that's the law, unless your business is illegal or proprietary and is not registered with the government.

"Especially to a manual or unskilled worker".

That's effectively mean "only manual and unskilled workers are the working class" as in they will ceased to be working class once they become skilled.

No, it just means that manual or unskilled workers are predominately the ones to which the definition is applied. The definition of especially is "used to single out one person, thing, or situation over all others." If, in the definition of wages , the person defining the word wages was trying to say that only manual and unskilled works receive wages, then they wouldn't have bothered with A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee.
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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12/7/2014 11:25:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/7/2014 11:17:35 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
At 12/7/2014 10:56:45 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 12/7/2014 5:43:58 AM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Wages= employment. That's all I mean to say. I mean to say that as long as salesman are employed, they are working-class.

hmnn if you're suggested that any kind of job with an element of wages forming part of their income - almost every kind of job would be considered a "working class", including small business owner (yes, entrepreneur have wages too - they just wrote their own wages), hedge fund manager, CEO, etc.

Wages definition:
A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee, especially to a manual or unskilled worker.

The only thing that will miss your definition is that it is paid to manual or unskilled worker which doesn't make any sense if you asked me. Even the business owner must specified his own wage and take it from the finance like the rest of his employee - he's technically employed himself to whatever position he wanted to be (but usually management). And no that's not an option, that's the law, unless your business is illegal or proprietary and is not registered with the government.

"Especially to a manual or unskilled worker".

That's effectively mean "only manual and unskilled workers are the working class" as in they will ceased to be working class once they become skilled.

No, it just means that manual or unskilled workers are predominately the ones to which the definition is applied. The definition of especially is "used to single out one person, thing, or situation over all others." If, in the definition of wages , the person defining the word wages was trying to say that only manual and unskilled works receive wages, then they wouldn't have bothered with A fixed regular payment, typically paid on a daily or weekly basis, made by an employer to an employee.
You can call me Mark if you like.