Total Posts:25|Showing Posts:1-25
Jump to topic:

Is taxation slavery?

Libertopia
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.
Libertopia
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2014 8:25:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

No. I do not think that it is ever justified for any other individual to loot my property.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,246
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/24/2014 11:56:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

When people vote for it.
rob88
Posts: 1
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/25/2014 10:41:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
No, taxation is not slavery.

Taxation is necessary to pay for public services that we all need like healthcare, education and waste disposal. Without taxation people would only be able to afford these things if they had the money. So taxation helps to protect us.

I would define slavery as being forced to work for no pay.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/25/2014 3:59:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 11:56:24 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

When people vote for it.

Fair enough. What kind if taxation do you support?
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/25/2014 4:00:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 10:41:10 AM, rob88 wrote:
No, taxation is not slavery.

Taxation is necessary to pay for public services that we all need like healthcare, education and waste disposal. Without taxation people would only be able to afford these things if they had the money. So taxation helps to protect us.

I would define slavery as being forced to work for no pay.

What kind of taxation do you support?
Libertopia
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/26/2014 6:28:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 10:41:10 AM, rob88 wrote:
No, taxation is not slavery.

Taxation is necessary to pay for public services that we all need like healthcare, education and waste disposal. Without taxation people would only be able to afford these things if they had the money. So taxation helps to protect us.

I would define slavery as being forced to work for no pay.

I don't want to pay for other peoples' healthcare, education or waste disposal; let alone aggressive wars, pervasive domestic spying programmes, bank bailouts, arms sales, kidnapping/extraordinary rendition, torture, paying off debt I never wanted, corporate welfare, politicians' salaries/expenses, funding foreign dictators/terrorist groups etc. Why should somebody with your view force me at gunpoint to surrender my property to the people who do these things?
kevin24018
Posts: 1,804
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/27/2014 3:38:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
IF (big if) taxes where used wisely, not wasted and abused most people wouldn't have a problem with taxes (and we wouldn't be having this discussion). It's not slavery but rather Indentured servitude. Not all the tax we pay goes for things we need or want, but rather for social programs and we don't have a choice to support these programs or not. Even if we should fall on hard times we are still forced to pay these taxes. Consider this, someone has a huge out of pocket medical expense, are they then able to reduce their tax burden until they are back on their feet? Nope, people loose their homes, everything, and yet they still have to pay the taxes to support all the programs which they do not benefit from, not talking about roads and schools. Why should taxes be taken from people to support other people when the tax payer can't even support themselves? So the choice is, move to state with no state income tax, use the power of vote or just accept it. The real slaves are the ones dependant on taxes as the programs are a hand out and not a hand up.
SebUK
Posts: 850
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 12:56:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/25/2014 10:41:10 AM, rob88 wrote:
No, taxation is not slavery.

Taxation is necessary to pay for public services that we all need like healthcare, education and waste disposal. Without taxation people would only be able to afford these things if they had the money. So taxation helps to protect us.

I would define slavery as being forced to work for no pay.

If we defy taxation as '(especially in the past) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.' Then taxation is a form of slavery as we are forcefully made to obey the state and pay into those public services . It doesn't matter if it 'helps to protect us.' This does not change the definition
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 4:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 12:56:13 PM, SebUK wrote:
If we defy taxation as '(especially in the past) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.' Then taxation is a form of slavery as we are forcefully made to obey the state and pay into those public services . It doesn't matter if it 'helps to protect us.' This does not change the definition

On this same tangent of yours, anything that requires anyone to do anything is considered slavery. It means law is slavery. Any form of government is slavery. A parent telling a kid not to play games or to eat vegetables is slavery.

Snide remarks aside, I support progressive taxation. The capitalist system necessarily creates poor people in order for those on top to become rich. It is the obligation of those who extract the most benefit from capitalism to mitigate its casualties.
Senpai has noticed you.
SebUK
Posts: 850
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 4:58:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:45:41 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 10/31/2014 12:56:13 PM, SebUK wrote:
If we defy taxation as '(especially in the past) a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.' Then taxation is a form of slavery as we are forcefully made to obey the state and pay into those public services . It doesn't matter if it 'helps to protect us.' This does not change the definition

On this same tangent of yours, anything that requires anyone to do anything is considered slavery. It means law is slavery. Any form of government is slavery. A parent telling a kid not to play games or to eat vegetables is slavery.

Snide remarks aside, I support progressive taxation. The capitalist system necessarily creates poor people in order for those on top to become rich. It is the obligation of those who extract the most benefit from capitalism to mitigate its casualties.

Coercion is slavery , By showing me that law is slavery you may have thought that I would respond saying it is not but it is and you did not present a counter-argument. The fact is I believe some light forms of slavery should be allowed (Such as very low taxation). 'I support progressive taxation. The capitalist system necessarily creates poor people in order for those on top to become rich. It is the obligation of those who extract the most benefit from capitalism to mitigate its casualties.' There is no such thing as 'Rights' You are not entitled to somebody else's property . We don't have Rights we have Properties. "It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a "dismal science." But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."-Murray N. Rothbard. 'The capitalist system necessarily creates poor people in order for those on top to become rich. ' You have yet to prove how the rich force people to work for them . Don't blame people's inability to produce Capital at the system , that is just an excuse for the poor not to work.
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 10:07:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 4:58:55 PM, SebUK wrote:
Coercion is slavery , By showing me that law is slavery you may have thought that I would respond saying it is not but it is and you did not present a counter-argument.
slavery: The practice or system of owning slaves.[1]
slave: A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.[2]

The U.S.A. does not hold its citizens as its legal properties. Citizens thereby fail to satisfy the definition of being slaves when obligatorily compelled to perform a set of actions or tasks (i.e. taxes and laws)
In other words, making a person do something is not equivalent to owning that person as legal property. Making wage earners pay taxes or obey laws (making therefore, by definition, cannot be equated to slavery as you are trying to do.

You:
[...]it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."-Murray N. Rothbard.
Go eat a gigantic chocolate cake and get fat! >:(

You:
You have yet to prove how the rich force people to work for them . Don't blame people's inability to produce Capital at the system , that is just an excuse for the poor not to work.
Chinese sweatshop workers, Haitian crop-growers, Bolivian tin miners, etc. are examples of people consigned to labor with pitiful wages (25cents a day) that are barely able to sustain their lives. Many work jobs which shorten their livespans. Modern miners, for example, develop an array of respiratory diseases and usually die between 30-50 years of age.
Why do they allow themselves to perform 16+hrs/day of back breaking labor as soon as they reach working age (or even before in many cases)? Why don't they learn new skills? Why don't their children learn new skills and climb the capitalist hierarchy? The fact is that they can't. How can your kid afford to go to school when he/she has to also work or starve? How can they take on specialized education when most of their day is spent earning a couple cents every single day? What kind of schools, if any, are built in these areas of abject poverty? How many job opportunities do you think will be waiting around these laborers except for those that their parents and their parent's parents are forced to work in order to survive?
Many of these people literally have no choice but to work terrible jobs at unreasonably long hours and at wages that aren't even 1/300th that of a generic American minimum wage worker. They have nowhere to go. Their children have nowhere to go. They have no opportunities to escape the socioeconomic strata in which they reside; they are stuck. Their direct bosses are also earning barely enough to export their services to foreign nations (i.e. U.S.A.), and those who ultimately reap the most profit are those on top of this capitalist chain: the exploiting upper class of their respective nations/regions, and the foreign beneficiaries (i.e. USA).
Senpai has noticed you.
SebUK
Posts: 850
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 11:17:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 10:07:09 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:58:55 PM, SebUK wrote:
Coercion is slavery , By showing me that law is slavery you may have thought that I would respond saying it is not but it is and you did not present a counter-argument.
slavery: The practice or system of owning slaves.[1]
slave: A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.[2]

The U.S.A. does not hold its citizens as its legal properties. Citizens thereby fail to satisfy the definition of being slaves when obligatorily compelled to perform a set of actions or tasks (i.e. taxes and laws)
In other words, making a person do something is not equivalent to owning that person as legal property. Making wage earners pay taxes or obey laws (making therefore, by definition, cannot be equated to slavery as you are trying to do.

You:
[...]it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."-Murray N. Rothbard.
Go eat a gigantic chocolate cake and get fat! >:(

You:
You have yet to prove how the rich force people to work for them . Don't blame people's inability to produce Capital at the system , that is just an excuse for the poor not to work.
Chinese sweatshop workers, Haitian crop-growers, Bolivian tin miners, etc. are examples of people consigned to labor with pitiful wages (25cents a day) that are barely able to sustain their lives. Many work jobs which shorten their livespans. Modern miners, for example, develop an array of respiratory diseases and usually die between 30-50 years of age.
Why do they allow themselves to perform 16+hrs/day of back breaking labor as soon as they reach working age (or even before in many cases)? Why don't they learn new skills? Why don't their children learn new skills and climb the capitalist hierarchy? The fact is that they can't. How can your kid afford to go to school when he/she has to also work or starve? How can they take on specialized education when most of their day is spent earning a couple cents every single day? What kind of schools, if any, are built in these areas of abject poverty? How many job opportunities do you think will be waiting around these laborers except for those that their parents and their parent's parents are forced to work in order to survive?
Many of these people literally have no choice but to work terrible jobs at unreasonably long hours and at wages that aren't even 1/300th that of a generic American minimum wage worker. They have nowhere to go. Their children have nowhere to go. They have no opportunities to escape the socioeconomic strata in which they reside; they are stuck. Their direct bosses are also earning barely enough to export their services to foreign nations (i.e. U.S.A.), and those who ultimately reap the most profit are those on top of this capitalist chain: the exploiting upper class of their respective nations/regions, and the foreign beneficiaries (i.e. USA).

First let's define property, According to the oxford English dictionary -'A thing or things belonging to someone; possessions collectively:' Are you denying that the fact that the government can use coersion is how factions can treat their property? The system we live in has characteristics of slavery. I would argue that we are viewed as property by the state and the fact that we are forced to obey them is not questionable. 'Go eat a gigantic chocolate cake and get fat! >:(' Too late I am already fat but I don't really like sweets as much as fast food and meat.'Chinese sweatshop workers, Haitian crop-growers, Bolivian tin miners, etc. are examples of people consigned to labor with pitiful wages (25cents a day) that are barely able to sustain their lives. Many work jobs which shorten their livespans. Modern miners, for example, develop an array of respiratory diseases and usually die between 30-50 years of age.' Describing me their working conditions is not an argument for how they are forced to work, The only reason why it's acceptable is because of the local culture , Do you really think these people are not happy with their jobs compared to what others in their country go through? Companies would not pay Europeans and Nothern Americans the same amount of money as they pay Africans for example simply because it is not accepted by the Western culture . You are ignoring the fact that what these workers get paid is not neccessarily viewed as incredibly little in their local area. The reality is that by enforcing stupid regulations Western governments are scaring off the businesses because it is not affordable to hire new employers when you have to pay into their old age pension or for the feminist's sex protection that they think they are entitled to. Just look how great Signapore is doing without the Minimum Wage and such ridicilous ideas.'Why don't their children learn new skills and climb the capitalist hierarchy?' Um actually African countries have the fastest growing economies the problem is with Foreign Aid which destroys Incentive for the businesses to grow , how are you supposed to compete with free stuff? Foreign Aid also encourages corruption It is also one of the reasons why there are so many rebellions, Just like Stefan Molyneux said because the officials get so much money from Foreign Aid.'A constant stream of "free" money is a perfect way to keep an inefficient or simply bad government in power. As aid flows in, there is nothing more for the government to do -- it doesn't need to raise taxes, and as long as it pays the army, it doesn't have to take account of its disgruntled citizens. No matter that its citizens are disenfranchised (as with no taxation there can be no representation). All the government really needs to do is to court and cater to its foreign donors to stay in power.'http://online.wsj.com... . 'The successful countries all have burgeoning free-market economies. South Korea, for instance, undertook far-reaching economic reforms, lowered its import tariffs and opened up to the world. Botswana, with Africa"s freest economy, has averaged a 7% growth rate over the past two decades.'-http://www.cato.org... . Enough has been said.
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
SebUK
Posts: 850
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/31/2014 11:17:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/31/2014 10:07:09 PM, Beginner wrote:
At 10/31/2014 4:58:55 PM, SebUK wrote:
Coercion is slavery , By showing me that law is slavery you may have thought that I would respond saying it is not but it is and you did not present a counter-argument.
slavery: The practice or system of owning slaves.[1]
slave: A person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.[2]

The U.S.A. does not hold its citizens as its legal properties. Citizens thereby fail to satisfy the definition of being slaves when obligatorily compelled to perform a set of actions or tasks (i.e. taxes and laws)
In other words, making a person do something is not equivalent to owning that person as legal property. Making wage earners pay taxes or obey laws (making therefore, by definition, cannot be equated to slavery as you are trying to do.

You:
[...]it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."-Murray N. Rothbard.
Go eat a gigantic chocolate cake and get fat! >:(

You:
You have yet to prove how the rich force people to work for them . Don't blame people's inability to produce Capital at the system , that is just an excuse for the poor not to work.
Chinese sweatshop workers, Haitian crop-growers, Bolivian tin miners, etc. are examples of people consigned to labor with pitiful wages (25cents a day) that are barely able to sustain their lives. Many work jobs which shorten their livespans. Modern miners, for example, develop an array of respiratory diseases and usually die between 30-50 years of age.
Why do they allow themselves to perform 16+hrs/day of back breaking labor as soon as they reach working age (or even before in many cases)? Why don't they learn new skills? Why don't their children learn new skills and climb the capitalist hierarchy? The fact is that they can't. How can your kid afford to go to school when he/she has to also work or starve? How can they take on specialized education when most of their day is spent earning a couple cents every single day? What kind of schools, if any, are built in these areas of abject poverty? How many job opportunities do you think will be waiting around these laborers except for those that their parents and their parent's parents are forced to work in order to survive?
Many of these people literally have no choice but to work terrible jobs at unreasonably long hours and at wages that aren't even 1/300th that of a generic American minimum wage worker. They have nowhere to go. Their children have nowhere to go. They have no opportunities to escape the socioeconomic strata in which they reside; they are stuck. Their direct bosses are also earning barely enough to export their services to foreign nations (i.e. U.S.A.), and those who ultimately reap the most profit are those on top of this capitalist chain: the exploiting upper class of their respective nations/regions, and the foreign beneficiaries (i.e. USA).

First let's define property, According to the oxford English dictionary -'A thing or things belonging to someone; possessions collectively:' Are you denying that the fact that the government can use coersion is how factions can treat their property? The system we live in has characteristics of slavery. I would argue that we are viewed as property by the state and the fact that we are forced to obey them is not questionable. 'Go eat a gigantic chocolate cake and get fat! >:(' Too late I am already fat but I don't really like sweets as much as fast food and meat.'Chinese sweatshop workers, Haitian crop-growers, Bolivian tin miners, etc. are examples of people consigned to labor with pitiful wages (25cents a day) that are barely able to sustain their lives. Many work jobs which shorten their livespans. Modern miners, for example, develop an array of respiratory diseases and usually die between 30-50 years of age.' Describing me their working conditions is not an argument for how they are forced to work, The only reason why it's acceptable is because of the local culture , Do you really think these people are not happy with their jobs compared to what others in their country go through? Companies would not pay Europeans and Nothern Americans the same amount of money as they pay Africans for example simply because it is not accepted by the Western culture . You are ignoring the fact that what these workers get paid is not neccessarily viewed as incredibly little in their local area. The reality is that by enforcing stupid regulations Western governments are scaring off the businesses because it is not affordable to hire new employers when you have to pay into their old age pension or for the feminist's sex protection that they think they are entitled to. Just look how great Signapore is doing without the Minimum Wage and such ridicilous ideas.'Why don't their children learn new skills and climb the capitalist hierarchy?' Um actually African countries have the fastest growing economies the problem is with Foreign Aid which destroys Incentive for the businesses to grow , how are you supposed to compete with free stuff? Foreign Aid also encourages corruption It is also one of the reasons why there are so many rebellions, Just like Stefan Molyneux said because the officials get so much money from Foreign Aid.'A constant stream of "free" money is a perfect way to keep an inefficient or simply bad government in power. As aid flows in, there is nothing more for the government to do -- it doesn't need to raise taxes, and as long as it pays the army, it doesn't have to take account of its disgruntled citizens. No matter that its citizens are disenfranchised (as with no taxation there can be no representation). All the government really needs to do is to court and cater to its foreign donors to stay in power.'http://online.wsj.com... . 'The successful countries all have burgeoning free-market economies. South Korea, for instance, undertook far-reaching economic reforms, lowered its import tariffs and opened up to the world. Botswana, with Africa"s freest economy, has averaged a 7% growth rate over the past two decades.'-http://www.cato.org... . Enough has been said.
I WILL DECIDE WHAT THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT. I AM SPIRITUAL, NOT RELIGIOYUS. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS TO BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU DO WORSHIP MONEY IF YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR WALLET THAAN YOU DO THE POOR. YOU ARE A TROLL THAT IS OUT FOR ATTENTUION."- SitaraMusica
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/1/2014 11:28:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/26/2014 6:28:45 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/25/2014 10:41:10 AM, rob88 wrote:
No, taxation is not slavery.

Taxation is necessary to pay for public services that we all need like healthcare, education and waste disposal. Without taxation people would only be able to afford these things if they had the money. So taxation helps to protect us.

I would define slavery as being forced to work for no pay.

I don't want to pay for other peoples' healthcare, education or waste disposal; let alone aggressive wars, pervasive domestic spying programmes, bank bailouts, arms sales, kidnapping/extraordinary rendition, torture, paying off debt I never wanted, corporate welfare, politicians' salaries/expenses, funding foreign dictators/terrorist groups etc. Why should somebody with your view force me at gunpoint to surrender my property to the people who do these things?

but you will have access to it anyway, if you benefit from it but refuse to pay for its bill, you're a freeloader. Taxation might not be a perfect system but social function is costed and somebody need to pay for it, if not you then someone else and some big and necessary project such as urban planning, infrastructure building, or public education (to some extent) are difficult to identify those who benefit from it directly, that's why everybody need to pay for it... ...because, well in the end we need a road to drive right?
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/2/2014 1:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The most important part about being forced to work manual labor jobs under terrible wages and conditions is that there are no other jobs around. Either work the ones provided or starve and die. There's no other option. They have to work and take what they are given. Why do you think there's so much outsourcing of manual labor?
In nations such as these, there's no such thing as a 'minimum wage', the rich elite pay flat taxes (often even avoiding tax-paying), and the government is unable to help those in need. They can't build schools, provide much-needed subsidies, alleviate growing poverty, etc.
The nations that do well are those free-market nations whose industries massively extract resources (human and material) from the poor nations at sickeningly cheap values and turn it into profit in their home nations.

On taxation = slavery:
Taxation being a form of coercion doesn't make it slavery.
I agree that coercion is an element of slavery, but a thing having an element of another thing doesn't make them the same thing. Coercion does not define slavery.
You are operating on faulty logic which goes thus:
P1) A contains an element of X
P2) B also contains an element of X
C) A is therefore equal to B.
Let's say A is a person, B is a tree, and X is the property of being alive (a living thing).

The logic would run thus:
P1) A person is a living thing
P2) A tree is a living thing
C) A person is a tree.
A person is obviously not a tree.
Your argument does the same thing. Let A be taxation, B be slavery, and X be coercion.
*Note: there can be multiple X's; some things share multiple properties.
Senpai has noticed you.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/3/2014 4:25:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

Yes, it can be justified if it is a way of achieving things we could hardly achieve on our own, like an education, medical, and militar system of quality. A proof that taxes can work just fine, is that the most developed countries usually have very high taxes.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/3/2014 4:39:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 4:25:46 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

Yes, it can be justified if it is a way of achieving things we could hardly achieve on our own, like an education, medical, and militar system of quality. A proof that taxes can work just fine, is that the most developed countries usually have very high taxes.

I agree. I believe in a 10% income tax.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2014 3:10:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/3/2014 4:39:41 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/3/2014 4:25:46 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

Yes, it can be justified if it is a way of achieving things we could hardly achieve on our own, like an education, medical, and militar system of quality. A proof that taxes can work just fine, is that the most developed countries usually have very high taxes.

I agree. I believe in a 10% income tax.

I think the percentage depends on the country and what you want to achieve. Maybe you put a 10% tax, but the citizens still demand a better public medical system so you need to rise it to 12%. Maybe the income of your citizens, on average, is very low, so 10% is too much for them to handle and you need to lower it to 7%. On another situations, getting 10% of your middle class citizens is too little money to do anything remarkable with it, and you need to rise it to, say 15%, or maybe you feel 15% is too much for a middle-class citizen, so you decide to put the 15% only on the rich people, and let middle class stay with 10%, etc.

I've lived in Norway for a year, taxes were like in 25% or even more, and nobody cared about it. At first it striked me that they didn't mind, but then I started to see how many social privileges they have, and I understood the tax system worked very well on that country.
SitaraMusica
Posts: 1,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/4/2014 3:37:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/4/2014 3:10:04 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 11/3/2014 4:39:41 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 11/3/2014 4:25:46 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/24/2014 8:01:58 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
At 10/24/2014 1:30:36 PM, Libertopia wrote:
At 10/20/2014 7:43:30 PM, SitaraMusica wrote:
I think it depends on the type of taxation. I support a 10% income tax, but nothing else.

No, but it is looting.

Fair enough. Do you think taxation is ever justified.

Yes, it can be justified if it is a way of achieving things we could hardly achieve on our own, like an education, medical, and militar system of quality. A proof that taxes can work just fine, is that the most developed countries usually have very high taxes.

I agree. I believe in a 10% income tax.

I think the percentage depends on the country and what you want to achieve. Maybe you put a 10% tax, but the citizens still demand a better public medical system so you need to rise it to 12%. Maybe the income of your citizens, on average, is very low, so 10% is too much for them to handle and you need to lower it to 7%. On another situations, getting 10% of your middle class citizens is too little money to do anything remarkable with it, and you need to rise it to, say 15%, or maybe you feel 15% is too much for a middle-class citizen, so you decide to put the 15% only on the rich people, and let middle class stay with 10%, etc.

I've lived in Norway for a year, taxes were like in 25% or even more, and nobody cared about it. At first it striked me that they didn't mind, but then I started to see how many social privileges they have, and I understood the tax system worked very well on that country.

Yeah, I am pretty Libertarian about it.