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Econ AMA II

ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
daytonanerd
Posts: 6,769
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4/23/2015 9:37:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So why aren't stimulus packages a good thing? And why would the Fed counteract the U.S. Gov's expansionary policy?
#FeeltheFreezerBern
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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4/23/2015 9:39:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:
What if monetaryoffset in only 500 characters.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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4/23/2015 9:40:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*is
*characters?
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:23:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 9:39:44 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:
What if monetaryoffset in only 500 characters.

By answering your question, I'm indirectly answering dayona's question -- so I'll respond to you and cross-reference this. You know I don't care much for character caps, and I think there's a bit more depth to it than I could explain in 500, anyway.

Here's the crux of monetary offset. First, we assume that the Fed has duel objectives -- maximum sustainable employment and price stability -- and that we can crystallize these objectives into one composite indicator, nominal GDP, since employment and real output are heavily related, and we tend to equate the "natural" levels of both indicators (i.e., if we're at potential output, we're also at the NAIRU). There are a few different ways to formalize that:

Real GDP * Price Level = Nominal GDP

MV = PY

where:

M = money supply
V = velocity of money
P = price level
Y = real output

So, the way in which the Fed reacts to shocks, since it can only impact the demand side of the economy and can only move real variables in the short run -- thought we assume it can and does due to short-run nominal rigidities (i.e., wages and prices don't adjust, so real rates fall, via the Fisher equation) -- is to move the money supply up and down, signal future policy, buy up or sell a bunch of assets to move markets, etc. Basically, the case is that, irrespective of what fiscal policymakers are doing, the Fed is going to laser in on its (now implicit) NGDP target, consistent with, let's say, 5-percent growth per year on average (though, now, that may be around 4 to 4.3 percent due to secular factors, hysteresis, etc.).

Fiscal policy, generally speaking, *can* move RGDP and NGDP up and down, provided that short rates are pinned at zero, in which case crowding out isn't much of an issue, and that we assume away Ricardian Equivalence. But, how much can it actually move the AD curve?

Well, let's say that Y* - or let's even call it $10 trillion -- is potential output. For whatever reason, the Fed either can't hit that or doesn't want to hit that because it has a stupid 2 percent inflation target and the Wicksellian equilibrium is -4 percent, so it can only shift the AD curve to Y2, or $9 trillion. Thus, there's a $1 trillion output gap for fiscal policy to actually shift the AD curve back.

But -- and this is the crucial point -- if we assume that the Fed can hit Y*, whether it's through proper management of expectations, a level target, a credible commitment to a permanently elevated balance sheet, etc., it not only *can* hit Y*, but it's going to laser in on Y*. If fiscal policy is a headwind, policy becomes more accomodative, and if it's a tailwind, monetary policy becomes more contractionary. In that vein, it doesn't matter at all what fiscal policymakers are actually doing, because the Fed can and will laser in on potential output nevertheless, and will simply adjust as needed.

To put it in more accessible terms, if Congress were to pass a stimulus, monetary policy would become tighter than it would otherwise; if it were to slash spending or raise taxes, monetary policy would become more accommodative. In either case, the Fed would "offset" the impact of fiscal policy on aggregate demand, rendering fiscal policy completely and utterly useless, such that any fiscal multiplier is a sign of Fed incompetence -- i.e., the inability for the Fed to actually hit Y*.

Here's a good example. About a year ago, we had Paul Krugman and friends screaming about sequestration -- which was about $1.1 trillion in across-the-board spending cuts and triggered tax hikes, though at the end of the day some of the tax hikes were reverse and the decline in spending amounted to, about, $500 billion. Ceteris paribus, that would depress demand, but it didn't: NGDP accelerated in 2013.

Now, why? Simple: The Fed responded, expanding QE3 by $45 billion per month in additional Treasury securities, which pushes down long rates and shifts out fed funds futures (i.e., market expectations of the path of the policy rate in the future). What would have been a giant decline, then, actually turned out to be a boon -- whether that was a result of, say, net confidence effects -- animal spirits -- remains a question, though maybe the Fed just overshot, since it wasn't aiming for Y*. But, if anything, that underscores the fact that some other level of NGDP can act as a proxy for potential such that the Fed will pick some target for AD and stay there, whether it's the "optimal" level or not.

And there, in a nutshell, is "monetary offset."
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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4/23/2015 12:24:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:23:18 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 9:39:44 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:
What if monetaryoffset in only 500 characters.

By answering your question, I'm indirectly answering dayona's question -- so I'll respond to you and cross-reference this. You know I don't care much for character caps, and I think there's a bit more depth to it than I could explain in 500, anyway.

I wanted to see you struggle with the 500
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:24:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 9:37:36 AM, daytonanerd wrote:
So why aren't stimulus packages a good thing? And why would the Fed counteract the U.S. Gov's expansionary policy?

Stimulus packages aren't good in and of themselves, unless (a) there's some sort of targeted reforms of tax cuts which may either make labor markets more flexible or impact the supply-side of the economy or (b) the spending is an end in itself, because fiscal policy cannot shift the AD curve more than the Fed already would have.

Here's a more in-depth explanation (i.e., my response to Annie) :http://www.debate.org...
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:25:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:24:34 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 12:23:18 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 9:39:44 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:
What if monetaryoffset in only 500 characters.

By answering your question, I'm indirectly answering dayona's question -- so I'll respond to you and cross-reference this. You know I don't care much for character caps, and I think there's a bit more depth to it than I could explain in 500, anyway.

I wanted to see you struggle with the 500

Ok, let me do it in less:

"VTL Fiscal Policy"

How's that?
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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4/23/2015 12:27:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:25:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 12:24:34 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 12:23:18 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 9:39:44 AM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:
What if monetaryoffset in only 500 characters.

By answering your question, I'm indirectly answering dayona's question -- so I'll respond to you and cross-reference this. You know I don't care much for character caps, and I think there's a bit more depth to it than I could explain in 500, anyway.

I wanted to see you struggle with the 500

Ok, let me do it in less:

"VTL Fiscal Policy"

How's that?

You didnt bold
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:28:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:27:00 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:

VTL Annie


We'll lynch fiscal policy tomorrow.

(I don't know if anyone got the pun of "kicking the can down the road, lol.)
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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4/23/2015 12:28:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

https://www.youtube.com...
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:29:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:28:45 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

https://www.youtube.com...

Lol.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,355
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4/23/2015 12:35:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:28:00 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 12:27:00 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:

VTL Annie


We'll lynch fiscal policy tomorrow.

(I don't know if anyone got the pun of "kicking the can down the road, lol.)

I'm so sorry...

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*Vigs RI*

P.S. No one got it.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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4/23/2015 12:37:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do you consider block pricing (second-degree price discrimination) a real form of price discimination, or do you agree that it is not price discrimination because of differences in production cost / all consumers are treated the same way?

Given the choice between the enforcement of private property rights and government intervention, which do you think will be a more effective solution to externalities?
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 12:58:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:37:56 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Do you consider block pricing (second-degree price discrimination) a real form of price discimination, or do you agree that it is not price discrimination because of differences in production cost / all consumers are treated the same way?

I think it boils down to a semantic difference, but yes, I wouldn't consider it price discrimination because it's available widely to any consumer/business willing to purchase X amount of some good.

Given the choice between the enforcement of private property rights and government intervention, which do you think will be a more effective solution to externalities?

Government intervention; it's not as though externalities exist in the absence of private property rights. The "property rights" argument is one giant, ideological cop-out. It doesn't solve anything. If there's an incentive to pollute, they're going to pollute.

Not to mention, why would I care, if I have a factory, about polluting nearby factory air? Do I live in my factory? The property rights argument applies only to polluting at my home, though no one is actually doing that. It's a bullsh1t argument.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd
The-Voice-of-Truth
Posts: 6,542
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4/23/2015 1:36:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

It is apparent that you are familiar with economics, so with that in mind:

1) What drove you to study economics?
2) What about economics do you find interesting?
3) What is your desired field of study in this subject?
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:05:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 1:36:01 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
It is apparent that you are familiar with economics, so with that in mind:

1) What drove you to study economics?

A really good Macro class in college, actually. I was into politics at the time, and was stunned at the way in which my worldview was ripped to pieces by a nice glimpse of reality; from there, it was just something I was best at, and that I thought I had some degree of natural talent in.

2) What about economics do you find interesting?

The extent to which simplistic models can actually reflect real-world behavior.

3) What is your desired field of study in this subject?

Monetary economics, particularly -- at this point -- the secular-stagnation hypothesis.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:17:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt

y u no answer question

VTL Rev
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/23/2015 2:17:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:17:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt

y u no answer question

VTL Rev

fite me i'm deathproof
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:21:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:17:56 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:17:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt

y u no answer question

VTL Rev

fite me i'm deathproof

No such role exists.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
RevNge
Posts: 13,835
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4/23/2015 2:50:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:21:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:17:56 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:17:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt

y u no answer question

VTL Rev

fite me i'm deathproof

No such role exists.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net...

Noob
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/23/2015 2:53:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 2:50:31 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:21:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:17:56 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:17:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:15:14 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:50 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:14:18 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 2:06:09 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 1:03:43 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 4/23/2015 7:53:43 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
So, a few things inspired me to make this thread:

(1) I'm bored.

(2) The other thread died, and I'm having withdrawals.

(3) The election season is upcoming, and though the average DDO'er isn't exactly the common layperson, it's easy to, without a background in economics, be swindled by dipsh1t politicians.

(4) There was a thread the other day by BenShapiro advocating for "fiscal stimulus," promulgating once more the falsehood that it "ended the Depression" -- which, even if it were true, which it isn't, drafting 3 million people is *hardly* the type of "stimulus" modern-day proponents advocate. That arguments of this kind regularly appear in the political arena is troubling to me, and I think there's merit in setting them straight.

So, without further ado, ask away! I'll respond to any and all questions, and try to be as comprehensive as possible.

y u nerd

y u hate meh

i never said i did

oh

y u no hate meh

i never said i didnt

y u no answer question

VTL Rev

fite me i'm deathproof

No such role exists.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net...

Noob

"Because protection from both lynches and kills is in practice redundant, Deathproof is generally not seen outside bastard mod games."
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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4/24/2015 5:56:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/23/2015 12:58:41 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 4/23/2015 12:37:56 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Do you consider block pricing (second-degree price discrimination) a real form of price discimination, or do you agree that it is not price discrimination because of differences in production cost / all consumers are treated the same way?

I think it boils down to a semantic difference, but yes, I wouldn't consider it price discrimination because it's available widely to any consumer/business willing to purchase X amount of some good.

Given the choice between the enforcement of private property rights and government intervention, which do you think will be a more effective solution to externalities?

Government intervention; it's not as though externalities exist in the absence of private property rights. The "property rights" argument is one giant, ideological cop-out. It doesn't solve anything. If there's an incentive to pollute, they're going to pollute.

Not to mention, why would I care, if I have a factory, about polluting nearby factory air? Do I live in my factory? The property rights argument applies only to polluting at my home, though no one is actually doing that. It's a bullsh1t argument.

Okay, thanks. :D There's something else I'm curious about...

When you replied to LiberalProlifer's regressive tax suggestion, you said you supported a progressive tax on spending. Why is that?

I'm guessing that the effect will be that progressive taxation will not harm working incentive too much, and that there will be a much higher saving incentive, which leads to an increase in deposits and thus excess supply of loans, and thus the interest rate will drop along with an increase in money supply through more credit creation.

At the same time it also has some benefits of regular progressive salaries tax, since the poor still pay less and the rich more. It wouldn't do much to solve wealth or income disparity, however... then again, the negative effects of income and wealth disparities are usually caused by spending disparities so I guess those effects (reduced social mobility and thus inequality opportunity) can still be lessened. Sounds like a plan!

P.S. There are far worse things suggested on DDO than promoting stimulus spending... A while back, someone suggested in the Opinions section that the amount of currency issued should be pegged with population size in order to cope with inflation; another said poor countries should print lots of money to get rich and get out of poverty...
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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4/24/2015 6:51:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4/24/2015 5:56:24 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
Okay, thanks. :D There's something else I'm curious about...

When you replied to LiberalProlifer's regressive tax suggestion, you said you supported a progressive tax on spending. Why is that?

A few reasons. Mainly, it's the only form of taxation that isn't distortive -- i.e., it doesn't encourage current consumption at the expense of future consumption or double tax, and adjusts for diminishing utility for each dollar spent. In a nutshell, it doesn't discentivize production, it encourages saving, and it would likely raise more revenue.

I'm guessing that the effect will be that progressive taxation will not harm working incentive too much, and that there will be a much higher saving incentive, which leads to an increase in deposits and thus excess supply of loans, and thus the interest rate will drop along with an increase in money supply through more credit creation.

The first part is right, and it's true that higher savings would tend to reduce interest rates, though that isn't the main reason -- interest rates are, generally, set by the Fed, though fluctuate with the state of the economy anyway. Though an increase in savings would tend to reduce rates, I would expect the boon to growth or raise them -- though I can't say that concerns me much at all, because how loose or tight money is has little, if anything, to do with interest rates.

At the same time it also has some benefits of regular progressive salaries tax, since the poor still pay less and the rich more.

True.

It wouldn't do much to solve wealth or income disparity, however... then again, the negative effects of income and wealth disparities are usually caused by spending disparities so I guess those effects (reduced social mobility and thus inequality opportunity) can still be lessened. Sounds like a plan!

There a number of structural issues giving root to income disparity, undoubtedly, and those ought to be addressed with appropriate policy measures. Technically, Pikketty's 80% TMTR would reduce inequality, ceteris paribus, but if the economy falls off a cliff, that isn't exactly to the benefit of the lowest, many of whom are low-skilled and thus more likely to see layoffs/wage cuts earlier on. That isn't to say that a rising tide lifts all boats, but it's certainly a necessary component -- and one that this tax structure does better than any others.

Not to mention, a big problem amongst low-income households is that they have virtually no savings; the whole "they need to consume every dollar they earn" thing a lot of liberals argue just isn't true, so this would also be beneficial to them in the long term, especially since the common way in which inequality is measured -- adding capital and wage income -- isn't exactly optimal.

P.S. There are far worse things suggested on DDO than promoting stimulus spending... A while back, someone suggested in the Opinions section that the amount of currency issued should be pegged with population size in order to cope with inflation; another said poor countries should print lots of money to get rich and get out of poverty...

By no means the worse, though it's nevertheless a scourge which is, by no means, fringe, as those ideas are. That otherwise intelligent people can parrot just utterly asinine ideas only makes those bad ideas more venomous.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah