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Greek Bank Collapse Countdown

1harderthanyouthink
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7/10/2015 3:51:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's almost noon in Athens right now. That means that they have 60 or so hours until the banks finally fall.

http://www.wsj.com...
http://www.businessinsider.com...
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7/10/2015 1:12:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The funny story is, Alexis Tsipras actually caved -- considerably -- on both his election pledge *and* the results of Sunday's referendum after, inconveniently, Greece's creditors came out and said not only that (a) they had detailed plans for a Grexit should it become necessary and (b) that conditions of the agreement would need to become even harsher; that's why Tsipras proposed more austerity than was in the latest Troika proposal.

I do think that, in light of Tsipras's newfound pragmatism, they'll probably reach a deal. Whether it's before the banks shut down is another question entirely. If not, they'd probably have to issue temporarily a new currency, which even the German Finance Minister -- strangely, somewhat chastened by the results of the referendum -- suggested might be a possibility. Either that, or wages and salaries will be paid in I.O.U.'s until the bailout conditions are signed off on.

Case in point, Greek banks have been shutdown for about a week. It sounds unbelievably dire and it is, but Tsipras and his Syriza friends are relatively intransigent, but not stupid. They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.
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Prodigy0789
Posts: 17
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7/10/2015 5:48:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Finally, someone who shares my political views! Welcome to the sanity club.
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7/10/2015 5:55:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 5:48:13 PM, Prodigy0789 wrote:
They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Finally, someone who shares my political views! Welcome to the sanity club.

Awesome!

The economics of austerity always seemed cut and dry to me, to be honest, though I would've supported the referendum for political and pragmatic reasons. The ideal scenario was for the ECB to cut the Greeks a check, much like the Fed cut AIG several. No austerity would have been necessary, but even if it were implemented, it would be offset by expansionary monetary policy. It doesn't exactly help that Mario Draghi was complicit in intimidating Greece into accepting gratuitous reforms.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/11/2015 6:05:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
33 hours away from Monday.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/11/2015 6:07:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've only slept a couple hours since making this thread.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
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ironslippers
Posts: 513
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7/11/2015 4:40:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 1:12:54 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
The funny story is, Alexis Tsipras actually caved -- considerably -- on both his election pledge *and* the results of Sunday's referendum after, inconveniently, Greece's creditors came out and said not only that (a) they had detailed plans for a Grexit should it become necessary and (b) that conditions of the agreement would need to become even harsher; that's why Tsipras proposed more austerity than was in the latest Troika proposal.

I do think that, in light of Tsipras's newfound pragmatism, they'll probably reach a deal. Whether it's before the banks shut down is another question entirely. If not, they'd probably have to issue temporarily a new currency, which even the German Finance Minister -- strangely, somewhat chastened by the results of the referendum -- suggested might be a possibility. Either that, or wages and salaries will be paid in I.O.U.'s until the bailout conditions are signed off on.

Case in point, Greek banks have been shutdown for about a week. It sounds unbelievably dire and it is, but Tsipras and his Syriza friends are relatively intransigent, but not stupid. They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/11/2015 4:49:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:40:51 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/10/2015 1:12:54 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
The funny story is, Alexis Tsipras actually caved -- considerably -- on both his election pledge *and* the results of Sunday's referendum after, inconveniently, Greece's creditors came out and said not only that (a) they had detailed plans for a Grexit should it become necessary and (b) that conditions of the agreement would need to become even harsher; that's why Tsipras proposed more austerity than was in the latest Troika proposal.

I do think that, in light of Tsipras's newfound pragmatism, they'll probably reach a deal. Whether it's before the banks shut down is another question entirely. If not, they'd probably have to issue temporarily a new currency, which even the German Finance Minister -- strangely, somewhat chastened by the results of the referendum -- suggested might be a possibility. Either that, or wages and salaries will be paid in I.O.U.'s until the bailout conditions are signed off on.

Case in point, Greek banks have been shutdown for about a week. It sounds unbelievably dire and it is, but Tsipras and his Syriza friends are relatively intransigent, but not stupid. They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.
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ironslippers
Posts: 513
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7/11/2015 4:58:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:49:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:40:51 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/10/2015 1:12:54 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
The funny story is, Alexis Tsipras actually caved -- considerably -- on both his election pledge *and* the results of Sunday's referendum after, inconveniently, Greece's creditors came out and said not only that (a) they had detailed plans for a Grexit should it become necessary and (b) that conditions of the agreement would need to become even harsher; that's why Tsipras proposed more austerity than was in the latest Troika proposal.

I do think that, in light of Tsipras's newfound pragmatism, they'll probably reach a deal. Whether it's before the banks shut down is another question entirely. If not, they'd probably have to issue temporarily a new currency, which even the German Finance Minister -- strangely, somewhat chastened by the results of the referendum -- suggested might be a possibility. Either that, or wages and salaries will be paid in I.O.U.'s until the bailout conditions are signed off on.

Case in point, Greek banks have been shutdown for about a week. It sounds unbelievably dire and it is, but Tsipras and his Syriza friends are relatively intransigent, but not stupid. They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/11/2015 5:06:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:58:29 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:49:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:40:51 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/10/2015 1:12:54 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
The funny story is, Alexis Tsipras actually caved -- considerably -- on both his election pledge *and* the results of Sunday's referendum after, inconveniently, Greece's creditors came out and said not only that (a) they had detailed plans for a Grexit should it become necessary and (b) that conditions of the agreement would need to become even harsher; that's why Tsipras proposed more austerity than was in the latest Troika proposal.

I do think that, in light of Tsipras's newfound pragmatism, they'll probably reach a deal. Whether it's before the banks shut down is another question entirely. If not, they'd probably have to issue temporarily a new currency, which even the German Finance Minister -- strangely, somewhat chastened by the results of the referendum -- suggested might be a possibility. Either that, or wages and salaries will be paid in I.O.U.'s until the bailout conditions are signed off on.

Case in point, Greek banks have been shutdown for about a week. It sounds unbelievably dire and it is, but Tsipras and his Syriza friends are relatively intransigent, but not stupid. They're aware of the consequences of austerity and how utterly stupid their opposition is, which is really on par in mental acumen with the Rhodes Scholars in Texas "Get your government hands off my Medicare." I say they reach a deal.

Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.
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ironslippers
Posts: 513
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7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
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7/11/2015 5:19:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM, ironslippers wrote:
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza

What sort of an alliance, though? I guess I'm not really following, though I admit the politics of this are largely outside my wheelhouse -- I do agree that eventually the Greeks probably will turn on Syriza, perhaps after they realize that the position they've voted for is untenable to maintain the euro.
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ironslippers
Posts: 513
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7/11/2015 5:27:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 5:19:29 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM, ironslippers wrote:
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza

What sort of an alliance, though? I guess I'm not really following, though I admit the politics of this are largely outside my wheelhouse -- I do agree that eventually the Greeks probably will turn on Syriza, perhaps after they realize that the position they've voted for is untenable to maintain the euro.

Outside the box it could be any country that wants influence in western europe, China, Russia, Brazil, Iran, etc. I agree that sounds extreme (and unlikely) but this is uncharted territory anything might happen.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
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7/11/2015 5:28:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 5:27:22 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:19:29 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM, ironslippers wrote:
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza

What sort of an alliance, though? I guess I'm not really following, though I admit the politics of this are largely outside my wheelhouse -- I do agree that eventually the Greeks probably will turn on Syriza, perhaps after they realize that the position they've voted for is untenable to maintain the euro.

Outside the box it could be any country that wants influence in western europe, China, Russia, Brazil, Iran, etc. I agree that sounds extreme (and unlikely) but this is uncharted territory anything might happen.

Oh, you mean another country might swoop in with an emergency loan? Yeah, I agree that actually could happen. In fact, Joe Stiglitz just recommended that the U.S. cut them a check. But wouldn't that, if anything, encourage Tsipras to *not* seek a deal because he wouldn't need to accept the Troika-mandated reforms?
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ironslippers
Posts: 513
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7/11/2015 5:39:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 5:28:49 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:27:22 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:19:29 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM, ironslippers wrote:
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza

What sort of an alliance, though? I guess I'm not really following, though I admit the politics of this are largely outside my wheelhouse -- I do agree that eventually the Greeks probably will turn on Syriza, perhaps after they realize that the position they've voted for is untenable to maintain the euro.

Outside the box it could be any country that wants influence in western europe, China, Russia, Brazil, Iran, etc. I agree that sounds extreme (and unlikely) but this is uncharted territory anything might happen.

Oh, you mean another country might swoop in with an emergency loan? Yeah, I agree that actually could happen. In fact, Joe Stiglitz just recommended that the U.S. cut them a check. But wouldn't that, if anything, encourage Tsipras to *not* seek a deal because he wouldn't need to accept the Troika-mandated reforms?

Then why the waste of time? I have much respect for Stiglitz and I Didn't consider the US, point being what MIGHT happen is probably something I and others haven't considered.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
1harderthanyouthink
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7/11/2015 5:42:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Less than 24 hours to Monday.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/11/2015 5:56:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 5:39:15 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:28:49 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:27:22 PM, ironslippers wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:19:29 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 5:17:50 PM, ironslippers wrote:
Seems to me that the Greeks have voiced their desires in 2 different elections, yet it's obvious that they are not willing to pay the consequences. I want what I want doesn't seem to work here.

Yeah, true, though the Syriza platform had two contradictory, mutually-exclusive planks:
maintain the euro and reject austerity. The latter obviously obviates the former, though Tsipras seems to be, finally, prioritizing.

Maybe its my sources but Tsipras seems to burning as much time as he can get, gives me the impression that there is something else in play that has yet to be revealed, or maybe not.

You mean, with his own party? I've seen some news stories speculating about it -- we may be thinking of the same one, actually -- but I'm inclined, at least at the moment, to attribute it to pragmatism, and the (I think very sensible) acknowledgment that the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be.

I'm thinkng along the lines of assets that the greek have yet to divulge or perhaps an alliance. I agree the longer he drags this out, the harsher the austerity will be, so why drag this out eventually the Greeks will turn against Syriza

What sort of an alliance, though? I guess I'm not really following, though I admit the politics of this are largely outside my wheelhouse -- I do agree that eventually the Greeks probably will turn on Syriza, perhaps after they realize that the position they've voted for is untenable to maintain the euro.

Outside the box it could be any country that wants influence in western europe, China, Russia, Brazil, Iran, etc. I agree that sounds extreme (and unlikely) but this is uncharted territory anything might happen.

Oh, you mean another country might swoop in with an emergency loan? Yeah, I agree that actually could happen. In fact, Joe Stiglitz just recommended that the U.S. cut them a check. But wouldn't that, if anything, encourage Tsipras to *not* seek a deal because he wouldn't need to accept the Troika-mandated reforms?

Then why the waste of time?

Exactly -- if there were some secret bailout in the works, I don't see why Tsipras would be trying so hard for a deal. I suppose he might be gunning for a debt write-down, though, which he probably won't get.

I have much respect for Stiglitz and I Didn't consider the US, point being what MIGHT happen is probably something I and others haven't considered.

Yeah, and the thing is, the U.S. probably could do it -- it wouldn't be politically popular (and I don't think the Fed has the authority to do it), but it would realistically be an excellent return on investment, if only for avoiding the ramifications of a Grexit.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/12/2015 5:21:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
A bit under 11 hours to Monday. And...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/12/2015 6:15:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No deal, and it's Monday. The bank collapse is coming.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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7/13/2015 2:29:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
No collapse...yet...

http://www.bbc.com...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King