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The world is teetering on the financial edge

beng100
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9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,311
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9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM, beng100 wrote:
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.

Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
beng100
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9/3/2015 12:36:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Unfortunately Greece is what many countries will look like in 10 years time. Who seriously thinks America can pay off its multi trillion dollar debt
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,311
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9/3/2015 12:55:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:36:01 AM, beng100 wrote:
Unfortunately Greece is what many countries will look like in 10 years time. Who seriously thinks America can pay off its multi trillion dollar debt

Well. It's possible.
http://www.forbes.com...

Or, there's this perspective:
http://www.theatlantic.com...
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ax123man
Posts: 317
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9/3/2015 1:55:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Real wealth is made up of real stuff. What matters is whether businesses, labor and machines are productively creating physical things - things that people want.

Debt and money printing are really more like reallocations of wealth. So, yea, some people may get screwed while others become wealthy, but last I checked the U.S. was still doing a pretty good job of cranking out stuff people want.

Greece's problem was not just the debt, but the lack of production.

That isn't to say that the U.S. economy couldn't slowly erode, but I doubt there is going to be any kind of sudden meltdown. Markets can and will crash - nothing new there, but did we disappear after 1929? Banks will fail - that's always going to happen with fiat - nothing new there. Financial meltdowns will occur (again). Ho hum.

Ultimately economic success is rooted in freedom and I think it's too early to tell how the U.S. is going to fair in that regard. There's an awful lot of regulation, but at least we don't have something like a Roosevelt literally running the economy.

IMO, the single biggest factors in this equation are Russia and China. In both these countries, there are some signs of movement toward more free markets. This may seem slow, but it all depends on your perspective. I tend to look long-term, so I'm talking about potentially drastic changes to the economic landscape within a few decades. If this does happen, the war mongers will surely be rattling their swords.
ColeTrain
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9/3/2015 3:10:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 6:43:05 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

This
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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9/4/2015 12:17:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
So many fallacies, so little time...

I might write out a new edition of "Charlatans and Cranks," focusing this time on debt, why countries that *borrow in their own currencies* (U.S., England, Japan, etc.) are far different from countries (Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc.) that are bound by a currency union, why comparing governments to households/businesses is mind-numbingly stupid, etc. Would anyone be interested in that?
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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9/4/2015 12:41:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)

It depends on what you mean by "trying." That's the tagline, surely, but without an independent monetary authority to offset to the contractionary effects of austerity, every dollar they cut takes about a dollar and a half out of GDP, meaning their debt-to-GDP ratio actually rises. Not to mention, prolonging the agony merely undermines the Greek economy's productivity capacity, pushing forward its fiscal limit (Faust and Leeper (2015) have a great discussion of this) and actually *accelerating* the point at which its debt would become unsustainable.

If we accept -- as we should -- that the actual debt-to-GDP ratio matters less the debt-to-GDP relative to the fiscal limit, which we can think of a discounted maximum primary surplus, then in two distinct ways austerity actually pushes Greece *further* toward the unsustainable direction it so fears.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ColeTrain
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9/4/2015 12:54:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:41:51 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)

It depends on what you mean by "trying." That's the tagline, surely, but without an independent monetary authority to offset to the contractionary effects of austerity, every dollar they cut takes about a dollar and a half out of GDP, meaning their debt-to-GDP ratio actually rises. Not to mention, prolonging the agony merely undermines the Greek economy's productivity capacity, pushing forward its fiscal limit (Faust and Leeper (2015) have a great discussion of this) and actually *accelerating* the point at which its debt would become unsustainable.

If we accept -- as we should -- that the actual debt-to-GDP ratio matters less the debt-to-GDP relative to the fiscal limit, which we can think of a discounted maximum primary surplus, then in two distinct ways austerity actually pushes Greece *further* toward the unsustainable direction it so fears.

I know what you mean. I'm not necessarily saying either way, but at least they're doing SOMETHING.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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9/4/2015 12:58:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:54:43 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:41:51 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)

It depends on what you mean by "trying." That's the tagline, surely, but without an independent monetary authority to offset to the contractionary effects of austerity, every dollar they cut takes about a dollar and a half out of GDP, meaning their debt-to-GDP ratio actually rises. Not to mention, prolonging the agony merely undermines the Greek economy's productivity capacity, pushing forward its fiscal limit (Faust and Leeper (2015) have a great discussion of this) and actually *accelerating* the point at which its debt would become unsustainable.

If we accept -- as we should -- that the actual debt-to-GDP ratio matters less the debt-to-GDP relative to the fiscal limit, which we can think of a discounted maximum primary surplus, then in two distinct ways austerity actually pushes Greece *further* toward the unsustainable direction it so fears.

I know what you mean. I'm not necessarily saying either way, but at least they're doing SOMETHING.

Eh, they would honestly be better off doing "nothing," at least insofar as their troika creditors would allow -- which, of course, isn't much.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ColeTrain
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9/4/2015 1:31:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I know what you mean. I'm not necessarily saying either way, but at least they're doing SOMETHING.

Eh, they would honestly be better off doing "nothing," at least insofar as their troika creditors would allow -- which, of course, isn't much.

Well... there's that. :P
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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9/4/2015 1:32:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:31:01 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
I know what you mean. I'm not necessarily saying either way, but at least they're doing SOMETHING.

Eh, they would honestly be better off doing "nothing," at least insofar as their troika creditors would allow -- which, of course, isn't much.

Well... there's that. :P

If only, lol
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ColeTrain
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9/4/2015 1:34:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If only, lol
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Electric-Eccentric
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9/4/2015 4:02:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
trying to LIVE on CREDIT is very unwise, but daydreaming fools of choice prefer the excitement of gambling with magic odds & ends.

Most haven't a clue as to just WHAT the collateral is on the debts that are owed.

For MONEY to have a recognized value you require collateral that has a value that can be recognized.

The peoples of today not only try and LIVE on financial credit,

but religious and scientific credit as well.

When the collateral looses value the propaganda machine has to work over time to try and keep the grand illusion going in faith & theory anyway.

Maybe if more were to GROW UP and pay their OWN way and not rely on invisible God's and made up theories and such the debt problems would be solved.

Seems that most are waiting for a MAGIC MOMENT where "money" blooms and becomes more valuable with the wave of a MAGIC WAND.

The solution is simple...

people just need to GROW UP and leave the magic wand faiths and theories behind them and get a REAL JOB...

just my two widows mites of unwanted WI$E advice.

p.s. may the farce be with you
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
lannan13
Posts: 23,064
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9/5/2015 5:24:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM, beng100 wrote:
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.

Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)

I see what you did there. XD
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slo1
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9/5/2015 12:49:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM, beng100 wrote:
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.

You have this all wrong. Spending has never directly resulted in a crash. A lack of spending does. One can be related to the other. IE: I'm a country, I spend so much that I have to borrow so much that people eventually stop lending to me because they feel it is too risky as I may not be able to pay them back. The country then has less money to spend.

One must realize the act of spending alone is not the only variable here. The act of lending money also plays a significant role.

Is China a result of spending or is it a result of lending? Neither, it is a result of structural defects which hinder spending. Their level of spending to achieve growth was unsustainable because it resulted in no return on investment. IE: building apartments which went vacant after finished. If trusted Chinas deficit spending is well under 3%.

When you move to companies rather than countries, they are at the lowest debt levels in the last 4 or so decades because of low interest rates.

This little financial narrative crafted by Republicans which only focuses on deficit spending or trickle down bs is short sighted, incomplete, and wrong.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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9/5/2015 1:28:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe if those in debt were to listen and take detailed notes from those that are NOT in debt. They might find their way out of their debt.

Just because poo sandwiches are the popular eats don't mean you have to join in and eat them when there IS better food for thought to consume.

seems that most want candy flavored poo with colorful sprinkles as their food for thought as they haven't the teeth of grown maturity to chew on real meat and potatoes.

Don't try and fool me as I can smell what you ate for thought food and it smells like it came out of the other end.

maybe the sugar coating and colorful sprinkles on the food for thought poo sandwiches isn't cutting it?

p.s. the certs with activated flavor power crystals are not working either.

Seems that more people need to pay their debts and quit daydreaming of money ships to come in or lotto wins and such.

whats in your wallet?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/5/2015 2:12:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2015 12:49:47 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM, beng100 wrote:
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.

You have this all wrong. Spending has never directly resulted in a crash. A lack of spending does. One can be related to the other. IE: I'm a country, I spend so much that I have to borrow so much that people eventually stop lending to me because they feel it is too risky as I may not be able to pay them back. The country then has less money to spend.

One must realize the act of spending alone is not the only variable here. The act of lending money also plays a significant role.

Is China a result of spending or is it a result of lending? Neither, it is a result of structural defects which hinder spending. Their level of spending to achieve growth was unsustainable because it resulted in no return on investment. IE: building apartments which went vacant after finished. If trusted Chinas deficit spending is well under 3%.

When you move to companies rather than countries, they are at the lowest debt levels in the last 4 or so decades because of low interest rates.

This little financial narrative crafted by Republicans which only focuses on deficit spending or trickle down bs is short sighted, incomplete, and wrong.

I dont claim spending is causing the problem. It is goverment borrowing. The poor economic policies pursued by governments results in government debts rising by trillions around tge world each year. I am from the uk. I do not support the republican party. I support the conservative party in the UK but the British political spectrum is considerably to the left of the American one. i do not believe spending cuts alone will solve anything. The point I am making is that worldwide debt is out of control. The debts of countries banks and individuals are at dangerously high levels. This forces low interest rates, low growth, economic stagnationand a risk of deflation. These are problems Japan has suffered from for 20 years. It has been stuck in a hole of debt it can't get out of but rather than learn from it the rest of the developed world has made the same mistake. I believe the next worldwide recession will probably lead to bankruptcy for many countries. The banking system is already dire. The best solution will probably be for mass worldwide default on debt, and new currencies created. The other scenario is the lack of confidence in the financial system will lead to runaway inflation that wipes out the debts. I certainly font intend to keep large amounts of savings, and don't trust the government guarantees, there's no way they can afford them. Investing in safe assets is a more sensible approach.
Electric-Eccentric
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9/5/2015 3:37:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
WHY are there so MANY people in debt and so FEW that pay their way and then some?

Is it that the many in debt CHOOSE to be tricked and fooled with deceptions and lies called good?

WHO or HOW do YOU that are in personal debt plan on paying off what you owe?

Or did you never have a REAL and HONEST plan to pay what you owe the money changers/lenders?

Seems that the many of the people put people in power over them that get their percentage of of the cake even if it's NOT paid for as they don't have to pay for it, those that put them in power pay just as the fanatics of Hollywood idols and such pay the idols to entertain and amaze them..

I like to do my own personal thinking and keep track of my own personal finances, that way I know what the bottom line is as best as can be known in vague and ever changing economic TIME$.

Maybe if more would have a interest in their own personal finances the Governments would have to follow suit?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,311
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9/8/2015 12:50:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2015 5:24:17 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:18:46 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/3/2015 12:04:46 AM, beng100 wrote:
With governments, banks and individuals around the world borrowing ever increasing amounts of money from each other, It is obvious to see that the worldwide economy is on the brink. There is simply not enough capitol to secure the debt and since the financial crash of 2007 the world has failed to get spending under control. Despite many governments cutting spending government borrowing continues to spiral out of control. Interest rates are stuck at low levels in many countries due to the monumental problems a rate rise would create leading to deflation and economic stagnation. I predict many countries around the world are faced with bankruptcy.

Bold words, my friend. Greece? They're trying to climb out of debt, though. :)

I see what you did there. XD

;)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW