Total Posts:3|Showing Posts:1-3
Jump to topic:

Capitalism and america

harrytruman
Posts: 812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2015 1:29:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I like money, don"t get me wrong here, I do not love money, I need money, money is important, but only because people are important, and people need money. Anyway, when you are working for 1$ a hour in 1944, you are earning 24$ a hour, which is a living wage, but then Lyndon B Johnson passes the Coinage Act of 1964, which doubles inflation, so now you are working for that same dollar an hour in 1968, but that dollar is now worth 10.10$. Then Richard Nixon passes the "Economic Recovery Act of 1970" even though our economy does not need to recover because there is nothing for it to recover from, then you are working for 3.35$ a hour, it stays there until the 1990"s, now your Federal Minimum Wage is raised to 7.25$, but there is a problem, that is not enough to support your family, so then you would have to apply for welfare which is funded partially by your tax dollars, and the rest by the big boss man whose money is earned by you, so let me get this straight, you slave for 8 hours a day, and get a sliver of the money you produced, then you have to APPLY for another sliver of what is rightfully yours, and you get hated on for it .
I am no communist, I am a strictly free market capitalist, and this is why I hate this issue. According to Thomas Pains "Common Sense": "The works of his hands we may consider rightfully his", so why are these guys slaving for a big fat boss man, 8 hours a day for not enough to live off of? And why is this boss man getting his pockets stuffed because you are slaving away for 8 hours a day? I swear, if Adam Smith saw how our money system works today he would have had a heart attack and died.
Now let"s get this thing cleared up ok, just because Karl Marx agreed with this being a significant issue does not mean I am a Marxist, for example; me and Karl Marx can both agree that the sky is blue, but that hardly means that I am a communist. This issue is fairly simple, it"s just about as simple and obvious as the sky is blue, it just so happens to be that Karl Marx used this issue top reinforce his idea of communism.
So here"s my solution:
Free Trade, just return to free trade. I cannot understand how any capitalist can call himself a capitalist, when he didn"t even read "The Wealth of Nations", it would be like a person calling himself a Christian even though he never opened the bible in his life. Smith"s book, his thesis statement, is that the common man is more than capable of choosing the price for his goods and services, and yet we establish the Federal Reserve. I want you to just consider this, a popular myth is that the Federal Reserve lowers inflation, how is the Federal Reserve any more capable of giving the same commands than congress? A congressman is just as capable of saying "Tighten Monetary policy" or "Loosen monetary policy" as a Federal Reserve chairman. So let"s get this straight, we think that the Federal Reserve Board of Governors is superior in decision making than us, and that we are incapable of deciding for ourselves, and we are supposed to call ourselves capitalists?!?
Adam Smith supported free trade, this is the core of capitalism, that all men are created equal, and that the common man is capable of choosing his own trade, his own prices. That every human ought to have an equal shot at life. Our system is no capitalist system, our current system is a hybrid between communism and feudalism, in no way are we capitalists
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/29/2015 4:11:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 1:29:23 AM, harrytruman wrote:
I like money, don"t get me wrong here, I do not love money, I need money, money is important, but only because people are important, and people need money. Anyway, when you are working for 1$ a hour in 1944, you are earning 24$ a hour, which is a living wage, but then Lyndon B Johnson passes the Coinage Act of 1964, which doubles inflation, so now you are working for that same dollar an hour in 1968, but that dollar is now worth 10.10$. Then Richard Nixon passes the "Economic Recovery Act of 1970" even though our economy does not need to recover because there is nothing for it to recover from, then you are working for 3.35$ a hour, it stays there until the 1990"s, now your Federal Minimum Wage is raised to 7.25$, but there is a problem, that is not enough to support your family, so then you would have to apply for welfare which is funded partially by your tax dollars, and the rest by the big boss man whose money is earned by you, so let me get this straight, you slave for 8 hours a day, and get a sliver of the money you produced, then you have to APPLY for another sliver of what is rightfully yours, and you get hated on for it .
I am no communist, I am a strictly free market capitalist, and this is why I hate this issue. According to Thomas Pains "Common Sense": "The works of his hands we may consider rightfully his", so why are these guys slaving for a big fat boss man, 8 hours a day for not enough to live off of? And why is this boss man getting his pockets stuffed because you are slaving away for 8 hours a day? I swear, if Adam Smith saw how our money system works today he would have had a heart attack and died.
Now let"s get this thing cleared up ok, just because Karl Marx agreed with this being a significant issue does not mean I am a Marxist, for example; me and Karl Marx can both agree that the sky is blue, but that hardly means that I am a communist. This issue is fairly simple, it"s just about as simple and obvious as the sky is blue, it just so happens to be that Karl Marx used this issue top reinforce his idea of communism.
So here"s my solution:
Free Trade, just return to free trade. I cannot understand how any capitalist can call himself a capitalist, when he didn"t even read "The Wealth of Nations", it would be like a person calling himself a Christian even though he never opened the bible in his life. Smith"s book, his thesis statement, is that the common man is more than capable of choosing the price for his goods and services, and yet we establish the Federal Reserve. I want you to just consider this, a popular myth is that the Federal Reserve lowers inflation, how is the Federal Reserve any more capable of giving the same commands than congress? A congressman is just as capable of saying "Tighten Monetary policy" or "Loosen monetary policy" as a Federal Reserve chairman. So let"s get this straight, we think that the Federal Reserve Board of Governors is superior in decision making than us, and that we are incapable of deciding for ourselves, and we are supposed to call ourselves capitalists?!?
Adam Smith supported free trade, this is the core of capitalism, that all men are created equal, and that the common man is capable of choosing his own trade, his own prices. That every human ought to have an equal shot at life. Our system is no capitalist system, our current system is a hybrid between communism and feudalism, in no way are we capitalists

As Rush Limbaugh points out, oppression and poverty have been the historical norm, and it's amazing we have been so prosperous and free as we have. But human evil is creeping back in, trying to take advantage of others. Government creates more need for it's own programs by hurting the economy, so the people that join the programs out of necessity are now part of the oppressive system. It's a viscous cycle. Also convenient for the ones who are in charge of the programs through which the money flows to the poor. More poor means bigger programs. And you can't decrease the size of the program. That would be cruel, and keep the poor from focusing on shorter term fixes and draw their attention to the actual policies that are hurting them. Granted there are 100 reasons for being poor, but like you said, they aren't helping.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Chimera
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 10:26:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/29/2015 1:29:23 AM, harrytruman wrote:
I am no communist, I am a strictly free market capitalist, and this is why I hate this issue. According to Thomas Pains "Common Sense": "The works of his hands we may consider rightfully his", so why are these guys slaving for a big fat boss man, 8 hours a day for not enough to live off of? And why is this boss man getting his pockets stuffed because you are slaving away for 8 hours a day?

Because of privatizing the means of production. This separates most of the population from access to basic goods like food, clothing, etc as well as access to luxury goods (but that hardly matters when you're starving). This results in having those who have no capital (the working class) to sell their labor (and as a result, their bodies) to those who have capital (capitalists) in order to gain a sliver of what is produced. This is made even worse since the purpose of capitalist corporations and businesses is to make a profit, thus meaning that workers can only be paid so much in order for a profit to still be made. Meaning that even though it is the workers who do all the necessary labor for production to even occur, they can never be paid the full value of their labor or else the higher ups within the company would go broke. This is due to the 'surplus value' that workers produce that is not given back to them, as it makes up the salaries of every member of the corporation above them.

Or, in simple terms, capitalism survives by exploiting the working class through extracting labor from them in exchange for a wage that is next to nothing in comparison to the labor they actually performed.

However, since capitalists are also dependent on the working class for the production of goods (if there were no workers, nothing would be produced), the workers sometimes utilize unions to gain concessions from the capitalists. Granted, today's unions are no better than corporations themselves since they are in bed with big business and don't care about the working class, and only seek to profit from their misfortune. But, in the past unions like the IWW that were more worker oriented were able to secure concessions for the working class, most notably the 8 hour work-day. Before the IWW the work-day was actually 10-16 hours, for petty wages that could hardly pay anything. Not to mention child labor and the drastically unsanitary work conditions we had before the rise of unions.

I swear, if Adam Smith saw how our money system works today he would have had a heart attack and died.

Yep, pretty much. Though i'd say our whole economic system would probably give him an aneurysm lol.

Now let"s get this thing cleared up ok, just because Karl Marx agreed with this being a significant issue does not mean I am a Marxist, for example; me and Karl Marx can both agree that the sky is blue, but that hardly means that I am a communist. This issue is fairly simple, it"s just about as simple and obvious as the sky is blue, it just so happens to be that Karl Marx used this issue top reinforce his idea of communism.

Ehhh, more to reinforce his critique of capitalism, not necessarily communism. Believe it or not, Marx wasn't really the best theorist on communism (in my opinion he was sort of crap when it came to that), but he was brilliant at analyzing and picking apart capitalism (well, 19th century capitalism, but his theories are still very sturdy to this day).

So here"s my solution:
Free Trade, just return to free trade. I cannot understand how any capitalist can call himself a capitalist, when he didn"t even read "The Wealth of Nations",

Well, to be fair, they can call themselves that by simply owning capital. Just sayin', lol.

it would be like a person calling himself a Christian even though he never opened the bible in his life. Smith"s book, his thesis statement, is that the common man is more than capable of choosing the price for his goods and services,

and yet we establish the Federal Reserve. I want you to just consider this, a popular myth is that the Federal Reserve lowers inflation, how is the Federal Reserve any more capable of giving the same commands than congress? A congressman is just as capable of saying "Tighten Monetary policy" or "Loosen monetary policy" as a Federal Reserve chairman. So let"s get this straight, we think that the Federal Reserve Board of Governors is superior in decision making than us, and that we are incapable of deciding for ourselves, and we are supposed to call ourselves capitalists?!?

Adam Smith supported free trade,

True.

this is the core of capitalism,

Ehhh, not quite. The core of capitalism is private property and the laws that protect it. Also, just to clarify, by private property i am referring to capital, or tools that are used in the production of goods.

that all men are created equal, and that the common man is capable of choosing his own trade, his own prices.

That every human ought to have an equal shot at life.

Adam Smith was a proponent of this, but what he also stated was not only should people have equal opportunity, but also have equal conditions. Since he believed that only when markets were under conditions of 'perfect liberty', would they lead to perfect equality.

Our system is no capitalist system, our current system is a hybrid between communism and feudalism, in no way are we capitalists

Communism and feudalism? Firstly, I would hardly say the American economic system is communist. There are literally none of the attributes of a communist society there, since it isn't stateless, classless, moneyless, or even has the most basic worker-controlled structures and councils.

Secondly, although I can see some of the features of feudalism in America (as well as the world, since capitalism is a global system) since capitalism evolved from said system, I don't see how it can be since feudalism was characterized by serfs who are tied to the land that they work upon. As a result of this, serfs couldn't evolve into industrial workers and move to urban areas unless through violent revolts and rebellions that untied them from the land in order to increase overall human productive power.