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Climatic effects of free trade

tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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2/12/2016 3:03:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I don't believe, though, that it's an "existential threat."
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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2/15/2016 4:27:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]

EW, you're a protectionist
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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2/15/2016 2:55:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 4:27:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]

EW, you're a protectionist

He could've been playing devil's advocate.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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2/15/2016 9:16:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 4:27:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]

EW, you're a protectionist

Nope xD That debate doesn't reflect my views at all, lol.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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2/15/2016 9:17:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 2:55:19 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 2/15/2016 4:27:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]

EW, you're a protectionist

He could've been playing devil's advocate.

Lol, that was the case here. Thanks for standing up for me.. xD
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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3/7/2016 11:56:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 4:27:04 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:57:32 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

I mentioned this in a debate earlier... if you'd care to read it. [http://www.debate.org...]

EW, you're a protectionist

No m8. http://www.debate.org...
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
TheWhiteKnight
Posts: 11
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3/10/2016 3:28:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:53:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
I've seen many arguments -- on this site, and outside of it -- that argue that free trade poses an "existential threat" to the human race due to climate change. Many have claimed that free trade increases the total carbon emissions.

Thoughts?

First of all, humans are not the cause of climate change. The climate during the medieval warming was much warmer than today and it had less co2 in the atmosphere than today. Same goes for the roman warming and the minoan warming.
You can't say that A causes B, if B happens before A. The fact is that there is no effect on the temperature when co2 rises, that is very clear when you look at the data.
The global warming hysteria was created by politicans to stop the success of capitalism and free enterprise, and to take freedom away from people and raise their taxes.

Second of all, even if it was true that our co2 emissions were causing temperature increase. The right way to deal with it would not be decreasing capitalism and free trade. Capitalism has brought billions of people out of poverty the last 100 years, it has mad America the most wealthiest country in the world. Free trade lowers the prices for consumers, which makes it easier for people who are not as well of, to buy goods and services.

Demolishing capitalism and freetrade, or even decreasing it, will result in millions, if not billions of peoples death. They will starve to death, they will get killed by the police in riots and uprisings, they will die fighting for bread.
Instead we should continue with capitalism and free trade, because it makes everyones lives better off.
Keep the power away from the government's hands, or it will result in fascism.
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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3/10/2016 3:46:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/10/2016 3:28:37 PM, TheWhiteKnight wrote:

It's a nonsensical viewpoint to be skeptical of human-caused climate change. 97% of the research agrees that climate change is human-caused. Global warming denial is a weak position because there has been a documented rise in global land-sea mean temperatures, and the global warming hiatus has frequently been broken. So global warming exists. CO2 has an effect on rising equilibrium temperature because increasing CO2 concentration further traps insolation within the Earth. As CO2 concentration rises, insolation keeps failing to escape, thus causing a rise in temperatures. On balance, about a 2-3 degree Celsius rise in average temperature is expected per doubling of CO2 concentration -- 1.1 degrees is the normal temperature sensitivity to CO2, but positive feedbacks like H2O amplify the effect it has. 26.4 gigatonnes of CO2 are emitted by humans per year, thus causing a significant upward trend in temperature.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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3/10/2016 3:47:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
As for not adopting free trade policies and regulating trade, I have no idea how it would "kill millions." Please substantiate that.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
TheWhiteKnight
Posts: 11
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3/10/2016 4:46:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/10/2016 3:47:38 PM, tejretics wrote:
As for not adopting free trade policies and regulating trade, I have no idea how it would "kill millions." Please substantiate that.

The use of the term "global warming denier" or "science denier" is a very rude and disrespectful way to shut people up. The people who denies the holocaust, those people are deniers. But calling people you simply disagree with deniers is very disrespectful.
The debate about climate change is not settled.

First of all, the 97% study has been revealed over and over again to be false.
Actually in a new study, it shows that only 43% of climate scientists believes that humans are the main cause for global warming.
Let's not forget that scientists who oppose man made global warming, are risking losing their jobs.

Second of all, even if the 97% study was true, you still have to represent facts. Because having 97% of all climate scientists on your side is completely useless if you have no proof to support your claims.

Our athomsphere is not a closed system. Which makes co2 harmless. Infact, co2 is great for us. Plants and trees are growing faster and bigger, thanks to our co2 emissions, the wildlife is expanding.
It all makes sense when you think about it. The increase in co2 emissions only do the planet good. Now when our populations are growing, we need more food to feed everyone. And the best way to make everything grow as fast as possible, is to expand capitalism and free trade because we release more co2 that way.

And you have to explain the fact, that the romans had much higher temperature than we have now, even though they had much less co2 in the atmosphere. Same goes for every single year throughout history until the industrial revolution.

If we abolish or replaces capitalism, eventually it will result in stagnation. The unemployment will be huge, demand increases but supply decreases. People won't have enough money for food or healthcare. People will riot, destroy companies, factories, homes etc.
Keep the power away from the government's hands, or it will result in fascism.