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Basic Income

ATribeCalledWest
Posts: 1
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3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,291
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3/22/2016 12:09:02 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

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BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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3/23/2016 8:42:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

I am increasingly a fan of an GBI. I think that through the gradual expansion of social security and the gradual merging of other social programs into it, I think we could create a GBI over the course of 15 years or so.
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,637
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4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/4/2016 7:10:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguments I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

That really defeats the purpose of a basic income. A Basic income is so that everyone, no matter who they are, what their circumstances, their race, their religion, age or occupation, is GUANUNTEED an income.
It's called Basic income GUANRUNTEE for a reason.
Also, a basic income is BASIC, it only helps you afford the BASIC things you need to live. You can't really go anywhere on that unless you chose to budget the money you get each month and that would be a stretch. Could you pay all your bills, afford groceries and gas and still have enough left over on just $1,000 a month? If so, where do you live, because I am moving there?
The vast majority of people will continue to work because when our basic financial security is guaranteed, we will be free to pursue meaningful work, and pursue more ambitious goals. We won't be trying to just make ends meet at the end of the month, we will instead be able to look ahead and work for that new car, or save up money for retirement, or that Caribbean cruise, or an education for your kids. People might save up money so they can finally start that bait shop they've always dreamt about.
And some people might quit their jobs, but now they would do things, like pursue education, spend more time with their kids, pursue careers as artists or get more involved in their community through community service or activism.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/4/2016 7:11:47 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

Also if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, but if you build a robot to fish, does every man starve?
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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4/4/2016 8:03:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 7:11:47 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

Also if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, but if you build a robot to fish, does every man starve?

No, because the humans can still fish.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/4/2016 8:34:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 8:03:57 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 4/4/2016 7:11:47 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

Also if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, but if you build a robot to fish, does every man starve?

No, because the humans can still fish.

http://i132.photobucket.com...
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

There should be regulations however. Like after 1 year, your basic income slowly is lower. The whole point is to make people less welfare dependent.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
triangle.128k
Posts: 3,637
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4/6/2016 8:13:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/4/2016 7:11:47 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

Also if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, but if you build a robot to fish, does every man starve?

So...
The robot = Welfare and government-owned companies
Robot's power source = Revenue from increased taxes

The only problem is that the man is feeding off the work of the richer.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

There should be regulations however. Like after 1 year, your basic income slowly is lower. The whole point is to make people less welfare dependent.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 9:10:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 8:13:15 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 4/4/2016 7:11:47 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

Also if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life, but if you build a robot to fish, does every man starve?

So...
The robot = Welfare and government-owned companies
Robot's power source = Revenue from increased taxes

The only problem is that the man is feeding off the work of the richer.

No, the robot=A robot. Its about the increasing reliance on technology and automation in the workplace.
And the robots source of power=whatever it is plugged into, so a solar panel, or a battery or a wall outlet
Just read this article
http://www.mintpressnews.com...
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

There should be regulations however. Like after 1 year, your basic income slowly is lower. The whole point is to make people less welfare dependent.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Well not really, the basic income is only for those who really are struggling. Every year, the government will give you 20 k for those who really need it. Slowly, the government would make it 15K and so on and so forth. The purpose is to give you enough time to get a job, while still giving you financial help. Once the person finally gets a good job, the Basic income should be phased out, and that money can be either be cut from the budget, or transferred to somebody else who needs help.

This is to make sure people actually make some effort to get a job, otherwise we will have free loaders.

Of course there should be an exception for disabled, old, pregnant people. Or any others who aren't capable of working.

I think there should be grants and such. Like if you served in the army, instant 50 k or something.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

There should be regulations however. Like after 1 year, your basic income slowly is lower. The whole point is to make people less welfare dependent.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Well not really, the basic income is only for those who really are struggling. Every year, the government will give you 20 k for those who really need it. Slowly, the government would make it 15K and so on and so forth. The purpose is to give you enough time to get a job, while still giving you financial help. Once the person finally gets a good job, the Basic income should be phased out, and that money can be either be cut from the budget, or transferred to somebody else who needs help.

This is to make sure people actually make some effort to get a job, otherwise we will have free loaders.

Of course there should be an exception for disabled, old, pregnant people. Or any others who aren't capable of working.

I think there should be grants and such. Like if you served in the army, instant 50 k or something.

No, thats not a basic income. A Basic income is an income that EVERYONE gets, not just those in need or those who are disabled. That is simply welfare, unemployment insurance, Social Security, food stamps, etc.
A Basic income is something that EVERYONE would get.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
What are your thoughts on basic income? With the growing income inequality and unemployment looking like it will never recover, it seems like we have to start looking at new strategies.

Couple these things with the impending artificial intelligence revolution wiping out jobs, I don't see any alternative but would love to hear some ideas.

One of the most compelling arguements I've heard for basic income is getting people out of poverty so that they are not forced to work just to get by, but can instead afford to take training/education to better themselves/society, thus the net value that they produce is higher than the amount of money given to them.

Only with limits, as long as the people taking basic income actually try to find work. If they don't find work, then basic income should be cut off for them.

If we just give money to all, you're just giving people money instead of teaching them how to get a job and work. It's like giving a man a fish instead of teaching him how.

There should be regulations however. Like after 1 year, your basic income slowly is lower. The whole point is to make people less welfare dependent.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Well not really, the basic income is only for those who really are struggling. Every year, the government will give you 20 k for those who really need it. Slowly, the government would make it 15K and so on and so forth. The purpose is to give you enough time to get a job, while still giving you financial help. Once the person finally gets a good job, the Basic income should be phased out, and that money can be either be cut from the budget, or transferred to somebody else who needs help.

This is to make sure people actually make some effort to get a job, otherwise we will have free loaders.

Of course there should be an exception for disabled, old, pregnant people. Or any others who aren't capable of working.

I think there should be grants and such. Like if you served in the army, instant 50 k or something.

No, thats not a basic income. A Basic income is an income that EVERYONE gets, not just those in need or those who are disabled. That is simply welfare, unemployment insurance, Social Security, food stamps, etc.
A Basic income is something that EVERYONE would get.

They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 9:55:07 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

but does it have to be monthly?

I didn't mean one time payment, I meant annually.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/6/2016 10:16:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 9:55:07 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

but does it have to be monthly?

I didn't mean one time payment, I meant annually.

It could be annual, but you pay your expenses monthly, so it would make more sense to get the money monthly.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,291
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4/20/2016 11:43:34 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 3/23/2016 8:42:06 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
I am increasingly a fan of an GBI. I think that through the gradual expansion of social security and the gradual merging of other social programs into it, I think we could create a GBI over the course of 15 years or so.

I don't like it.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/21/2016 1:09:59 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/20/2016 11:43:34 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 3/23/2016 8:42:06 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
I am increasingly a fan of an GBI. I think that through the gradual expansion of social security and the gradual merging of other social programs into it, I think we could create a GBI over the course of 15 years or so.

I don't like it.

Care to explain why?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/21/2016 1:13:56 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.

This idea of the left's "justice" has become antiquated and frankly destroyed the whole concept of justice and a just society, much like we've destroyed any meaning in the words "racism, sexism, etc."

It is not a form of justice to guarantee something that you are not entitled to. It is not a form of justice to take one's money and give to the other. That's all wishful thinking at best and a load of economically illiterate horse-crap at worst.

Also, you cannot and will not participate in any market when these destructive government policies destroy half of it.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/21/2016 1:15:38 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

It's not a human right at all. It places an obligation on someone else to cover such a right, and that's the antithesis to any just and "equal" society, let alone a society of free individuals. One must not take another's money and give to someone who didn't earn it in the quest for "re distributive justice".

If I am guaranteed income to survive, why then must I work if the others have me covered?
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/21/2016 1:24:32 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 1:13:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.

This idea of the left's "justice" has become antiquated and frankly destroyed the whole concept of justice and a just society, much like we've destroyed any meaning in the words "racism, sexism, etc."

It is not a form of justice to guarantee something that you are not entitled to. It is not a form of justice to take one's money and give to the other. That's all wishful thinking at best and a load of economically illiterate horse-crap at worst.

Also, you cannot and will not participate in any market when these destructive government policies destroy half of it.

No, you're not trolling me at all. You just were looking around the economics forums, saw I made a comment and just happened to make TWO responses.
Again SMH.
Please stop trolling me. I find you annoying and a pain in the a$$.
Also Hayek supported a basic income. If you think this is a terrible idea, you may want to change your picture, but don't go back to Friedman, because HE ALSO SUPPORTED A BASIC INCOME!
http://www.libertarianism.org...
http://www.theatlantic.com...
http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com...
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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4/21/2016 1:31:06 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 1:24:32 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:13:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.

This idea of the left's "justice" has become antiquated and frankly destroyed the whole concept of justice and a just society, much like we've destroyed any meaning in the words "racism, sexism, etc."

It is not a form of justice to guarantee something that you are not entitled to. It is not a form of justice to take one's money and give to the other. That's all wishful thinking at best and a load of economically illiterate horse-crap at worst.

Also, you cannot and will not participate in any market when these destructive government policies destroy half of it.

No, you're not trolling me at all. You just were looking around the economics forums, saw I made a comment and just happened to make TWO responses.

Yes, I was on the econ forum, saw that you made two stupid comments, and gave responses to these stupid comments.

Again SMH.

Stop shaking your head before your nonexistent brain is damaged.
Please stop trolling me. I find you annoying and a pain in the a$$.

Yes, because you say stupid crap and I call you out on it?

Also Hayek supported a basic income. If you think this is a terrible idea, you may want to change your picture, but don't go back to Friedman, because HE ALSO SUPPORTED A BASIC INCOME!
http://www.libertarianism.org...
http://www.theatlantic.com...
http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com...

"Bleeding heart libertarians"...

I don't support everything that every economist I support has said, I hope you find that understandable.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,043
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4/21/2016 1:38:36 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 1:31:06 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:24:32 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:13:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.

This idea of the left's "justice" has become antiquated and frankly destroyed the whole concept of justice and a just society, much like we've destroyed any meaning in the words "racism, sexism, etc."

It is not a form of justice to guarantee something that you are not entitled to. It is not a form of justice to take one's money and give to the other. That's all wishful thinking at best and a load of economically illiterate horse-crap at worst.

Also, you cannot and will not participate in any market when these destructive government policies destroy half of it.

No, you're not trolling me at all. You just were looking around the economics forums, saw I made a comment and just happened to make TWO responses.

Yes, I was on the econ forum, saw that you made two stupid comments, and gave responses to these stupid comments.

I rest my case

Again SMH.

Stop shaking your head before your nonexistent brain is damaged.

If I had no brain, I would be dead.

Please stop trolling me. I find you annoying and a pain in the a$$.

Yes, because you say stupid crap and I call you out on it?

That's trolling as we were not having a conversation prior to you commenting. These forums had gone dormant for a week or so and you were just looking for a fight. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TROLLING

"Bleeding heart libertarians"...

Libertarian blog site, thought they might have some insights on Libertarianism


I don't support everything that every economist I support has said, I hope you find that understandable.

Just wanted to point it out
bballcrook21
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4/21/2016 1:43:32 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 4/21/2016 1:38:36 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:31:06 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:24:32 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/21/2016 1:13:56 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 4/7/2016 12:01:20 AM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:19:34 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 10:14:55 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:56:01 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:52:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:39:29 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:36:48 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:23:21 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/6/2016 9:05:57 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 4/6/2016 5:00:37 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 4/1/2016 4:38:42 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 3/16/2016 5:15:36 AM, ATribeCalledWest wrote:
They are getting it, after a certain point when it becomes unessaary, then why would you need it? Why should a person who makes 50 k get another 20 k because of basic income? It's only for people who don't meet that cutoff line. They keep getting it untill they pass that line.

It's not like the welfare we have. The welfare we have is utter crap, where the government has established a beaucracy, telling people what they can buy and what they can't. Basic Income gives everybody the money, and let's them choose.

Okay, I think you misunderstand what a basic income is. A Basic income would not be a one-time payment of 20K for those who need it, a Basic income would be a monthly income that everyone would receive just for being alive. Rich or poor, young or old, black or white, they would all get that check in the mail every month.
The amounted that is usually proposed is $1K or $1.5K. And everyone would get this.
Its a lot like what they have going on in Alaska, with the Alaska Citizen's dividend.

But I'm having some issues with that. Why would somebody who makes 120 k a year get 1 k every month?

Because the concept is that this basic income is not just a welfare program, it is a human right. It is a Universal Guarantee to everyone. Because you are a human being, you a guaranteed a basic wage to cover what is needed to survive.

Ok I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

Say you are Bill Gates. You have billions of dollars. Does it make sense that the government gives you an additional 1 k every month? Where's the logic in that? You have more than enough money to take care of yourself.

It benefits the poor much more than it benefits the rich, but it benefits everyone across the board. I think Bill gates wouldn't mind having another K in his wallet, and seeing as the 45 Million Americans would also be seeing the benefits of being raised out of poverty, the result is that everyone wins in this scenario.
A Basic income is a baseline, and you can earn money on top of it. Those Millions that Bill Gates makes every day is on top of that basic income.
Because it"s universal and unconditional, basic income creates a baseline of justice and equality. Everyone will be on the political and economic playing fields, with money to participate actively as citizens and in markets.

This idea of the left's "justice" has become antiquated and frankly destroyed the whole concept of justice and a just society, much like we've destroyed any meaning in the words "racism, sexism, etc."

It is not a form of justice to guarantee something that you are not entitled to. It is not a form of justice to take one's money and give to the other. That's all wishful thinking at best and a load of economically illiterate horse-crap at worst.

Also, you cannot and will not participate in any market when these destructive government policies destroy half of it.

No, you're not trolling me at all. You just were looking around the economics forums, saw I made a comment and just happened to make TWO responses.

Yes, I was on the econ forum, saw that you made two stupid comments, and gave responses to these stupid comments.

I rest my case

Again SMH.

Stop shaking your head before your nonexistent brain is damaged.

If I had no brain, I would be dead.

Did you play a role in Guardians of the Galaxy? because these metaphors just fly over your head.


Please stop trolling me. I find you annoying and a pain in the a$$.

Yes, because you say stupid crap and I call you out on it?

That's trolling as we were not having a conversation prior to you commenting. These forums had gone dormant for a week or so and you were just looking for a fight. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF TROLLING

I do not come onto the forums with the intention of reading your stupid posts, because losing brain cells is not my forte. On the other hand, when I do come across your posts, I reply to them as needed. It's a debate site; I'm not hunting for your writing, I'm simply looking reading all the posts and replying to whichever one I disagree with.


"Bleeding heart libertarians"...

Libertarian blog site, thought they might have some insights on Libertarianism


I don't support everything that every economist I support has said, I hope you find that understandable.

Just wanted to point it out

Well, it's always good to know that no economist is infallible, although there are some who are dead on for most economic concepts.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.