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What are your thoughts on Bitcoin?

AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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7/29/2016 10:53:29 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

It will thrive.


Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

No

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

Bitcoin will probably continue to be used as an international currency for online purchases but it won't replace paper currency.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
capob
Posts: 73
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7/30/2016 3:12:01 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

It has multiple scaling deficiencies (transactions per second, size of client stored block chain). I haven't paid much attention, but I believe some of these were being addressed in something called etherium. However, Etherium is centralized, and there were some recent bugs found in the code.

None the less, buy buy buy.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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8/1/2016 9:15:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Ok so, this video explains how bitcoins are used throughout the world but I'm not sure if it can be used to buy anything since there are some businesses big and small who are not accepting bitcoin as payment...

https://www.youtube.com...

I'm going to create an account, sell some of my valuable goods online for bitcoin, like my Gibson SG and my Cuban humidor, a few bicycles, among other things collecting dust in my house, like a bitcoin yard sale, use it kinda like an experiment account to see how far it takes me, or if my account crashes in fiery flames, lol

I wonder if there are any bitcoin bloggers....we'll see.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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8/1/2016 11:20:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/30/2016 3:36:51 PM, Ichilicious wrote:
Personally, I find BitCoin as amusing as cash.

I just learned that 1 bitcoin is worth roughly 600 paper dollars.

But the big difference between paper currency and bitcoin is that bitcoin is finite, like gold.

And

Since the world is moving closer to globalization, the probability of bitcoin being THE global currency is really high.

What are your thought on that?
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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8/2/2016 8:14:01 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/2/2016 4:19:21 PM, harrytruman wrote:
It's a scam,

well, that's an accusation that's yet to be proven true.

Not going to lie, this is a thought that never leaves my mind, but I'm willing to take a risk and find out through trial and error.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
BillSPrestonEsq
Posts: 140
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8/2/2016 11:17:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Whether Bitcoin becomes big or not, digital currency I think will replace national currencies, which are mostly digital as is. The technology isn't quite there in my opinion, but eventually grow to become better than any other currencies. And sure people will continue to use various commodities to trade, like gold, but just like gold and silver surpassed salt and cattle as a currency so will digital currency replace our current government created currency mess we have going on. For instance if another Bitcoin type company creates a currency that is, say pinned to population or something, it will clearly be more stable that US currency. I don't see how this isn't inevitable.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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8/3/2016 12:41:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Well when you create "money" out of thin air, that is thin air, then sell it to the public as some kind of valid money, then manipulate its price that it goes from 5$ to 500$ or 678$ on a daily basis, then have it smack down to 5$ again, that's called a "scam,"
BillSPrestonEsq
Posts: 140
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8/3/2016 2:23:08 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 12:41:58 AM, harrytruman wrote:
Well when you create "money" out of thin air, that is thin air, then sell it to the public as some kind of valid money, then manipulate its price that it goes from 5$ to 500$ or 678$ on a daily basis, then have it smack down to 5$ again, that's called a "scam,"

I don't know if you're reply was to me or not but it appears that way. See the benefit of a digital currency is that a program can be created to prevent manipulation. What is the different between national fiat currencies and digital currencies of the future?
Digital currencies are voluntary. Big difference. If something isn't trustworthy it won't be used. 'Money' has always been created out of 'thin air'. Gold doesn't get it's value from anything other than what people are willing to pay for it. It's value is created out of 'thin air' just the same. But the difference with gold is that it is not 'legal tender' and is not being manipulated by a central authority.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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8/3/2016 2:33:21 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I don't know if you're reply was to me or not but it appears that way. See the benefit of a digital currency is that a program can be created to prevent manipulation. What is the different between national fiat currencies and digital currencies of the future?
Digital currencies are voluntary. Big difference. If something isn't trustworthy it won't be used. 'Money' has always been created out of 'thin air'. Gold doesn't get it's value from anything other than what people are willing to pay for it. It's value is created out of 'thin air' just the same. But the difference with gold is that it is not 'legal tender' and is not being manipulated by a central authority.

No, bitcoin isn't controlled by a central authority, it is created out of thin air by anyone with a bitcoin generator, if anyone can just create an unlimited amount of this currency, it will never work.

Also, gold isn't valuable because people think it is, gold is valuable because someone had to employ labor and stock to bring it to the markets. Besides, the Market price, the price people are willing to pay, is always progressing toward the natural price, the cost of production, so even if everyone is willing to accept FRN's or Bitcoin, they will begin to accept them at lower and lower values until they accept them for their natural price only, exactly 0#.
BillSPrestonEsq
Posts: 140
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8/3/2016 2:53:50 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 2:33:21 AM, harrytruman wrote:
I don't know if you're reply was to me or not but it appears that way. See the benefit of a digital currency is that a program can be created to prevent manipulation. What is the different between national fiat currencies and digital currencies of the future?
Digital currencies are voluntary. Big difference. If something isn't trustworthy it won't be used. 'Money' has always been created out of 'thin air'. Gold doesn't get it's value from anything other than what people are willing to pay for it. It's value is created out of 'thin air' just the same. But the difference with gold is that it is not 'legal tender' and is not being manipulated by a central authority.

No, bitcoin isn't controlled by a central authority, it is created out of thin air by anyone with a bitcoin generator, if anyone can just create an unlimited amount of this currency, it will never work.

Also, gold isn't valuable because people think it is, gold is valuable because someone had to employ labor and stock to bring it to the markets. Besides, the Market price, the price people are willing to pay, is always progressing toward the natural price, the cost of production, so even if everyone is willing to accept FRN's or Bitcoin, they will begin to accept them at lower and lower values until they accept them for their natural price only, exactly 0#.

That's not how bitcoin works. There is absolutely a limit on the number of bitcoins that can be created. I suggest you learn more about it before commenting.
And yes gold is only valuable because people think it is. This isn't something up for debate. Gold has some use in manufacturing, and other than that it is just shiny and so people want it. And because some people want it, other people want it. That's it. It has nothing to do with the labor it takes to get it, except in it's utility for manufacturing. Like I pointed out, salt and cattle were currency. It's value was based on nothing but what people make it.
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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8/3/2016 4:11:26 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
That's not how bitcoin works. There is absolutely a limit on the number of bitcoins that can be created. I suggest you learn more about it before commenting.
And yes gold is only valuable because people think it is. This isn't something up for debate. Gold has some use in manufacturing, and other than that it is just shiny and so people want it. And because some people want it, other people want it. That's it. It has nothing to do with the labor it takes to get it, except in it's utility for manufacturing. Like I pointed out, salt and cattle were currency. It's value was based on nothing but what people make it.

They say that there is a limit on the number of bitcoin that can be created, but there really isn't, this stuff is made in basements with computers that generate them out of thin air, there is really nothing preventing these machines from simply creating more. There isn't some bit-police who arrest you for making too much.

You are absolutely wrong about gold's value, the market price is determined by what people are willing to pay, the natural price is the cost of production. The thing is the market price is always gravitating toward the natural price.

The Wealth of Nations Book1 Chapter 5:
"The far greater part of them he must derive from the labour of other people, and he must be rich or poor according to the quantity of that labour which he can command, or which he can afford to purchase. The value of any commodity, therefore, to the person who possesses it, and who means not to use or consume it himself, but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labour which it enables him to purchase or command. Labour, therefore, is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities."
"The real price of everything, what everything really costs to the man who wants to acquire it, is the toil and trouble of acquiring it. What everything is really worth to the man who has acquired it, and who wants to dispose of it or exchange it for something else, is the toil and trouble which it can save to himself, and which it can impose upon other people. What is bought with money or with goods is purchased by labour as much as what we acquire by the toil of our own body. That money or those goods indeed save us this toil. They contain the value of a certain quantity of labour which we exchange for what is supposed at the time to contain the value of an equal quantity. Labour was the first price, the original purchase-money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased; and its value, to those who possess it, and who want to exchange it for some new productions, is precisely equal to the quantity of labour which it can enable them to purchase or command. "
BillSPrestonEsq
Posts: 140
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8/4/2016 12:50:55 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 8/3/2016 4:11:26 AM, harrytruman wrote:
That's not how bitcoin works. There is absolutely a limit on the number of bitcoins that can be created. I suggest you learn more about it before commenting.
And yes gold is only valuable because people think it is. This isn't something up for debate. Gold has some use in manufacturing, and other than that it is just shiny and so people want it. And because some people want it, other people want it. That's it. It has nothing to do with the labor it takes to get it, except in it's utility for manufacturing. Like I pointed out, salt and cattle were currency. It's value was based on nothing but what people make it.

They say that there is a limit on the number of bitcoin that can be created, but there really isn't, this stuff is made in basements with computers that generate them out of thin air, there is really nothing preventing these machines from simply creating more. There isn't some bit-police who arrest you for making too much.

You are absolutely wrong about gold's value, the market price is determined by what people are willing to pay, the natural price is the cost of production. The thing is the market price is always gravitating toward the natural price.

The Wealth of Nations Book1 Chapter 5:
"The far greater part of them he must derive from the labour of other people, and he must be rich or poor according to the quantity of that labour which he can command, or which he can afford to purchase. The value of any commodity, therefore, to the person who possesses it, and who means not to use or consume it himself, but to exchange it for other commodities, is equal to the quantity of labour which it enables him to purchase or command. Labour, therefore, is the real measure of the exchangeable value of all commodities."
"The real price of everything, what everything really costs to the man who wants to acquire it, is the toil and trouble of acquiring it. What everything is really worth to the man who has acquired it, and who wants to dispose of it or exchange it for something else, is the toil and trouble which it can save to himself, and which it can impose upon other people. What is bought with money or with goods is purchased by labour as much as what we acquire by the toil of our own body. That money or those goods indeed save us this toil. They contain the value of a certain quantity of labour which we exchange for what is supposed at the time to contain the value of an equal quantity. Labour was the first price, the original purchase-money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased; and its value, to those who possess it, and who want to exchange it for some new productions, is precisely equal to the quantity of labour which it can enable them to purchase or command. "

There is 'bitcoin police' they are called miners and they each keep a ledger keeping track of all bitcoin transactions, in return they get bitcoin.. You should do a little more research on bitcoin and digital currencies.
Yes I agree there is a 'natural price' and I understand the point you are trying to make. But what I'm saying is that gold just so happens to be considered valuable, it's only real utility is in manufacturing. If that was not the case it could be considered worthless. And yes if it was easier to mine and more abundant that would drive down the price. I understand your point, but the value itself was created out of 'thin air'. That is the point I am trying to make. It has value because people want it, people want it because it has value. You get what I am saying? Digital currency does still take labor to create, and it's value would be in it's stability and safety and ease of trade.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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8/4/2016 1:09:37 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
oh no..

guys bitcoin took a minor hit today due to hackers stealing bitcoin from a Hong Cong exchange.
http://www.nytimes.com...

it should bounce back though, miners gotta find a way to stay two steps ahead of the hackers.
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
harrytruman
Posts: 812
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8/4/2016 1:51:58 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
There is 'bitcoin police' they are called miners and they each keep a ledger keeping track of all bitcoin transactions, in return they get bitcoin.. You should do a little more research on bitcoin and digital currencies.

This ledger is anonymous, and miners have no power over supervision, and they can't prevent you from creating more bitcoin. Bitcoin are generated by computers, there is literally nothing preventing someone from simply instructing their computers to generate more bitcoin.
If bitcoin is decentralized then miners can't receive bitcoin for their work because someone would need to pay them these, that would be them, if you actually ask miners you find that they simply have computers in their basement that generate bitcoin.

Yes I agree there is a 'natural price' and I understand the point you are trying to make. But what I'm saying is that gold just so happens to be considered valuable, it's only real utility is in manufacturing. If that was not the case it could be considered worthless. And yes if it was easier to mine and more abundant that would drive down the price. I understand your point, but the value itself was created out of 'thin air'. That is the point I am trying to make. It has value because people want it, people want it because it has value. You get what I am saying? Digital currency does still take labor to create, and it's value would be in it's stability and safety and ease of trade.

Gold derives its value from value in trading, not value in use, so in a sense you are right, but the implications of your logic is what is flawed. Gold itself doesn't buy anything, no form of money does, it is not by gold or silver but by labor that capitol is produced and bought, gold and silver as well as FRN's are simply a medium by which capitol is traded. With a certain increment of money representing a proportional amount of goods and services.

It could be said from this that it doesn't matter what money is, but that just isn't the case. There are certain elements of gold that make it ideal as a currency. This is because if money is a commodity, then the production in that commodity should be proportional to the production of all other goods and services, therefore the supply of money in a gold based system would grow more or less proportionally equal to the increase in production of every other commodity. Thus price stability.

Bitcoin on the other hand is not ideal in any sense as money because its price is determined like a stock but it is supposed to be a currency. If the demand for bitcoin goes up the price also goes up, but so does the quantity, produced by bitcoin miners to meet the demand, thus decreasing the real price, and increasing the market price. Naturally these two prices gravitate, but they end up pulling away from each other. Creating a currency with two different values creates speculation, which breeds instability, this is why it fluctuates by hundreds of dollars daily.
BillSPrestonEsq
Posts: 140
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8/4/2016 11:31:43 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Labor still has nothing to do with the high value of gold except that it takes labor to acquire, which of course effects the price. Obviously if gold was readily available and easy to get it wouldn't be worth anything. It is from the scarcity, just like everything else, that it gets it's value. But my point is, and I don't think you are quite getting me here, is that has been chosen to be valued. The demand for gold plus it's scarcity gives it value. I just think digital currency will be better. I never said bitcoin, just digital currency. I personally don't own bitcoins. Maybe bitcoin will be big, maybe not. You can claim that it fluctuates wildly, but look at gold. Is it bitcoin that is fluctuating or is it faith in dollars or euros or gold that is fluctuating bitcoin? If you are looking at the price in US dollars then the fluctuations don't necessarily have to be bitcoin if you know what I mean. Plus gold has been around for a long time, bitcoin is very new. That still doesn't mean that gold should be the standard currency. I just don't think it would be as stable as you think. It would be possible to have massive fluctuations in gold. And gold is used in manufacturing and who knows what else it will be used for it the future. I think money should only serve the purpose of money.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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8/14/2016 1:42:49 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

1. Very insecure because rely on "bank" to electronically hold your "keys" to your bit coins.

2. The guy who created made over hundered million from the easy mining early one.

3. Anyone can make their own electronic currency. In the long run it is going to be too much competition. All it would take is Trump to make "Trump Coin" and bit coin goes to the way side.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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9/3/2016 10:57:19 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

My best guess is that bitcoin is here to stay. Because it is decentralized, it cannot be shut down.

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

No. Bitcoin would need the support of the governments and that is not going to happen.

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

Bitcoin's value, like any currency, is linked to the confidence people place in it. Events, like the recent hacking of bitcoins is going to impact that confidence. Value will also fluctuate with the ease of converting it to "regular" fiat currencies.

Unless someone is involved in illegal or questionable activities, its use is limited.

What is the biggest reason you are interested in bitcoin?

For whatever its worth, I have extensive experience in banking and business.
AlyceTheElectrician
Posts: 233
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9/5/2016 12:31:26 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/3/2016 10:57:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

My best guess is that bitcoin is here to stay. Because it is decentralized, it cannot be shut down.

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

No. Bitcoin would need the support of the governments and that is not going to happen.

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

Bitcoin's value, like any currency, is linked to the confidence people place in it. Events, like the recent hacking of bitcoins is going to impact that confidence. Value will also fluctuate with the ease of converting it to "regular" fiat currencies.

Unless someone is involved in illegal or questionable activities, its use is limited.

What is the biggest reason you are interested in bitcoin?

For whatever its worth, I have extensive experience in banking and business.

I was thinking about selling some nice things online in exchange for bitcoin but there is a lot I still have to learn about this system, I concerned about being too ignorant about how it works and making huge, unrecoverable mistakes using it.

And I wonder if should sell my things for paper money and then transfer a small amount for bitcoin after I learn more about it....
Be who you are, Say what you feel, Because those who mind don"t matter, And those who matter don't mind.

BANGTAN! Blood, Sweat, & Tears> Check it out yes! https://www.youtube.com...
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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9/5/2016 2:55:55 PM
Posted: 3 months ago
At 9/5/2016 12:31:26 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
At 9/3/2016 10:57:19 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/29/2016 9:08:03 PM, AlyceTheElectrician wrote:
Wonderful people of economic knowledge.

Please, enlighten a layman on your stance for bitcoin.

Do you believe it's going to thrive or die? Are you Pro or Con?

My best guess is that bitcoin is here to stay. Because it is decentralized, it cannot be shut down.

Do you think it has the potential to replace paper currency and kill banks?

No. Bitcoin would need the support of the governments and that is not going to happen.

Go ahead and make some predictions concerning Bitcoin as well!

Thank you for replying.

Bitcoin's value, like any currency, is linked to the confidence people place in it. Events, like the recent hacking of bitcoins is going to impact that confidence. Value will also fluctuate with the ease of converting it to "regular" fiat currencies.

Unless someone is involved in illegal or questionable activities, its use is limited.

What is the biggest reason you are interested in bitcoin?

For whatever its worth, I have extensive experience in banking and business.

I was thinking about selling some nice things online in exchange for bitcoin but there is a lot I still have to learn about this system, I concerned about being too ignorant about how it works and making huge, unrecoverable mistakes using it.

And I wonder if should sell my things for paper money and then transfer a small amount for bitcoin after I learn more about it....

I wouldn't for a lot of reasons. Anything bitcoin can do, precious metals can do better. The exception is transferring them anywhere in the world real time but unless you are involved in the black market, the cons outweigh the pros.
Zamzua
Posts: 5
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9/29/2016 5:01:33 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
What I find funny is people trying to find flaws in Bitcoin. People are saying that Bitcoin isn't safe because of hackings that took place. Another idea that pops in mind is that Virtual currencies form a "bubble" and really backed by nothing. And along with that there's this idea that people will never use Bitcoin unless governments fully acknowledge and support it.

So to reply to the first point about how Bitcoin is supposedly unsafe, I'll tell you my arguments. Bitcoin is backed by a blockchain or public ledgers system. This means that for every transaction that is to be made , a whole group of Bitcoin mining server machines have to process it. While this happens , every machine the transaction goes through encrypts the transaction partially and the next will further encrypt it based on the previous encryption. What this means is that it is literally impossible to hack Bitcoin itself. Now , Bitcoin exchanges are regulated to the extent that hacks and fraud are easily detectable. So what does this leave us with? It leaves us with the root problem which lies with insufficient regulation of digital fiat currencies (using Banks) , whose inherent nature calls for them to be regulated (I'm not gonna go into the details). The fact of the matter is that law enforcement agencies and banks have failed to solve the problem and are therefore blaming it on Bitcoin , which is rather beneficial for startups , large corporations , etc.

Now , in order to briefly argue against the idea that Bitcoin is a bubble, I'll prove to you two things :
-That Bitcoin is backed by something and that's electricity and processing power
- That another successful currency (the USD) is backed by something of no inherent and actual value : Debt.
Now as I mentioned before , Bitcoin transactions are processed by server machines. Whenever these machines process transactions , they are rewarded with a number of Bitcoins (That's how Bitcoins are released in the world) . Now while the number of Bitcoins available in the market affect it's value , what also majorly affects it's value is the processing power and electricity it took to process transactions. That's what Bitcoin is backed by.
Secondly , even if you wouldn't quantify electricity as a legitimate source for currency ,let's consider an example where literally nothing but a social construct (Debt ) , is used to back the US Dollar. The US Dollar is artificially high because of debt by China supporting it. That means that as long as there is demand , the process keeps working.

I'll answer the third point in another comment.