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Idiots who support taxing the wealthy

askbob
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1/17/2011 5:49:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"John the Banker" Vs. "Bobby Burger Flipper"

John the Banker
John the Banker is a freshly minted undergraduate degree holder. Because he went to an Ivy League institution, he has graduated with $100,000 in debt. John joins a famous Wall Street investment bank and is assigned on a deal team that does large cap deals. As a first-year investment banking analyst, he makes $100,000 a year at the firm's Miami office and is soon putting in about 120 hours per week.

Earning $100,000 a year, at 120 hours per week, and in the unfortunate scenario of 40,000 bonus, John's salary equates to $140,000.

After all taxes and using paycheckcity.com to calculate the taxes

Federal Withholding $32,229.00
Social Security $4,485.60
Medicare $2,030.00
New York$ 9,220.24
NY SDI$31.20

Net Salary - $92,003.96

Now as we've stated John works 120 hours a week. However he lives in the city and has an 45 minute commute which equals 1 1/2 hours per day to and from. This increases his weekly hours (he works sat and sunday) to 10.5 hours commute + 120 hour work = 130.5 hours

John gets 2 weeks for vacation per year and 1 week for sick days. Therefore he works 49 weeks. 49 weeks * 130.5 hours = 6394.5 hours per year

92,003.96 / 6394.5 = $14.38 per hour.


Additionally John has to pay back 100,000 of student loans from college.

Furthermore Bobby the Burger flipper has 4 years of work on John.

Bobby Burger Flipper
Bobby Burger Flipper, is a full time manager at mcdonalds who makes 41,938 per year.

Source: http://www.payscale.com...

With the following taxes being taken off,

Federal Withholding $6,084.50

Social Security $1,761.40

Medicar $608.10

Pennsylvania $1,287.50

PA SUI $33.55

His Net Salary is: $32,162.95

Bobby works 40 hours a week and works 48 weeks a year he gets 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week for sick days. He lives in a small suburb and has a 10 minute commute equally 20 each day for 5 days a week making the total 100 minutes or 1.66 hours extra per week.

48 * 40 = 1920 hours
48 * 1.66 = 80 hours

Total hours = 2000 per year.

32,162.95 / 2000 = 16.08 per hour.

Furthermore bobby has no educational loans and has 4 years more of work. So Bobby starts out with a

100000 + (32,162.95 * 4) = 228,651.8 advantage.

As you can see, a progressive tax system is ridiculous. The mcdonalds employee makes more per hour than an IBanker and starts out with a quarter of a million dollars advantage.

Also we haven't even taken into consideration:

Time value of money
Standards of living (Ibankers in city, mcdonalds in suburbia)
Bobby taking three jobs to equal the amount of hours that John has.
Work to life balance (time spent with family, etc.)
Benefits Bobby's kids will receive over Johns in terms of tuition
Free Healthcare for Bobby's family that John's family does not receive
John goes to an Ivy League school where the tuition is 160,000 vs. 120,000.
John ended up changing majors and taking an extra year.
The physical toll john goes through (lack of sleep, social life, etc.)
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askbob
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1/17/2011 5:56:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Suppose that John even makes 220,000 including bonus.

Salary Paycheck Calculator
Your Pay Check Results

Annual Gross Pay $220,000.00

Federal Withholding $56,804.00

Social Security $4,485.60

Medicare $3,190.00

New York $15,364.59

NY SDI $31.20

Net Pay $140,124.61 / 6394.5 = 21.91 dollars per hour
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 5:59:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah, lets weigh everything against a single individual and claim that the entire system is a failure.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 6:00:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 5:56:16 PM, askbob wrote:
Suppose that John even makes 220,000 including bonus.

Salary Paycheck Calculator
Your Pay Check Results

Annual Gross Pay $220,000.00

Federal Withholding $56,804.00

Social Security $4,485.60

Medicare $3,190.00

New York $15,364.59

NY SDI $31.20


Net Pay $140,124.61 / 6394.5 = 21.91 dollars per hour

How about he gets a different that pays him better for his work.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:02:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 5:59:04 PM, OreEle wrote:
Yeah, lets weigh everything against a single individual and claim that the entire system is a failure.

I think it shows clearly the downtrodden fast food employee vs. the wealthy investment banker pretty clearly.

How ridiculously unfair it is.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:03:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:00:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
How about he gets a different that pays him better for his work.

Like what a doctor? You don't want me to go there.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:04:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:00:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
How about he gets a different that pays him better for his work.

Furthermore as you can clearly see from the numbers it's not the job that's cheating him but the government
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 6:09:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:02:57 PM, askbob wrote:
At 1/17/2011 5:59:04 PM, OreEle wrote:
Yeah, lets weigh everything against a single individual and claim that the entire system is a failure.

I think it shows clearly the downtrodden fast food employee vs. the wealthy investment banker pretty clearly.

How ridiculously unfair it is.

It doesn't show the "downtrodden fast food employee" it shows the manager with 4 years experience (not many people stay in fast food for 4 years).

Also, the banker is unlikely to be working 120 hours a week, unless he wants to be taken advantage of, in which case he should be looking at his boss who is working him ragged on salary.

My mom is the CFO of a local international company (USA, Canada, Mexico, and some European nations), and she doesn't work that many hours. Most upper management that I know don't work that much, not even close.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 6:10:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:04:24 PM, askbob wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:00:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
How about he gets a different that pays him better for his work.

Furthermore as you can clearly see from the numbers it's not the job that's cheating him but the government

No, it is his employer that is paying him salary and working him 120 hours a day.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 6:15:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.

I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:17:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:09:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
It doesn't show the "downtrodden fast food employee" it shows the manager with 4 years experience (not many people stay in fast food for 4 years).

It shows someone who has a full time job in fast food. Yes of course most people in fast food don't stay there because they move on to college and more highly skilled jobs such as a plumber or electrician who make even more. However it does show the lowest possible wages a full time employee makes in this country. Fast Food is the bottom of the barrel in terms of full time jobs.
4 years of experience can be easily gotten in highschool.


Also, the banker is unlikely to be working 120 hours a week, unless he wants to be taken advantage of, in which case he should be looking at his boss who is working him ragged on salary.

Clearly you don't know anything about investment banking as 120 hours is the NORM.


My mom is the CFO of a local international company (USA, Canada, Mexico, and some European nations), and she doesn't work that many hours. Most upper management that I know don't work that much, not even close.

LOL yes because there's a superfluous amount of CFO positions out there. Yup everyone right out of college gets those jobs.

We are not comparing 30 years of experience with 1 but an on par scoring system.

Since you can become a full time manager by working throughout highschool, these are on par with each other.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:19:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:15:45 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.

I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.

that's actually the law now not fraud.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:19:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:15:45 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.

I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.

Do you know how common this is? I used to run a tax preparation business, and wanted to vomit in my mouth everyday. I used to be a democrat, for god's sake!
askbob
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1/17/2011 6:19:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:10:26 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:04:24 PM, askbob wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:00:13 PM, OreEle wrote:
How about he gets a different that pays him better for his work.

Furthermore as you can clearly see from the numbers it's not the job that's cheating him but the government

No, it is his employer that is paying him salary and working him 120 hours a day.

What do you advocate his employer pays him?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:20:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:19:00 PM, askbob wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:15:45 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.

I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.

that's actually the law now not fraud.

This.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/17/2011 6:22:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.:

He's saying the system itself is based on fraudulent premises that penalizes success and rewards laziness.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:24:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:22:42 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.:

He's saying the system itself is based on fraudulent premises that penalizes success and rewards laziness.

What is your opinion P_L?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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1/17/2011 6:39:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:24:27 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:22:42 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.:

He's saying the system itself is based on fraudulent premises that penalizes success and rewards laziness.

What is your opinion P_L?:

Askbob is absolutely right, and he elegantly arrived from A to B succinctly and concisely. This also isn't an exception to the rule or an isolated incident, which Ore seems to suggest.

Advanced and specialized nursing routinely make more than family practice doctors for the simple fact that doctors are so over-taxed. Owning a family practice, for instance, is a minefield of government bureaucracy.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 6:44:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:17:30 PM, askbob wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:09:22 PM, OreEle wrote:
It doesn't show the "downtrodden fast food employee" it shows the manager with 4 years experience (not many people stay in fast food for 4 years).

It shows someone who has a full time job in fast food. Yes of course most people in fast food don't stay there because they move on to college and more highly skilled jobs such as a plumber or electrician who make even more. However it does show the lowest possible wages a full time employee makes in this country. Fast Food is the bottom of the barrel in terms of full time jobs.

fast food is, but not a fast food manager.

4 years of experience can be easily gotten in highschool.

You are not going to get a manager position right out of high school, even with 4 years of PT experience.



Also, the banker is unlikely to be working 120 hours a week, unless he wants to be taken advantage of, in which case he should be looking at his boss who is working him ragged on salary.

Clearly you don't know anything about investment banking as 120 hours is the NORM.

http://www.careers-in-finance.com...
http://www.careers-in-finance.com...
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com...

The average is actually around 90 hours a week, while some of the more extreme can work as much as 140 a week (which is usually only the case for those that are not too good at their job and have to work extra hours to keep up).

And also the pay usually averages more then $100 k per year, and the bonuses can be ridiculous. You also miss that most people only stay in that position for a few years before moving on to higher, better jobs that don't require as much work.



My mom is the CFO of a local international company (USA, Canada, Mexico, and some European nations), and she doesn't work that many hours. Most upper management that I know don't work that much, not even close.

LOL yes because there's a superfluous amount of CFO positions out there. Yup everyone right out of college gets those jobs.

No, I'm just pointing out other positions that take large amounts of time for an individual.


We are not comparing 30 years of experience with 1 but an on par scoring system.

Since you can become a full time manager by working throughout highschool, these are on par with each other.

How many managers at mickey dees (or any fast food industry) are 18 years olds right out of high school? That's on par?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Veridas
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1/17/2011 6:50:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I love how deliberately blinded this view is.

Bobby Burger Flipper has to think about rent, bills, food, other such commodities that cost money. Money that Bobby Banker doesn't have to care about.

Additionally, it's unlikely that Bobby Banker would have that kind of debt because if Bobby Banker could afford to go to an Ivy League school then it implies that he wouldn't have any debt in the first place, or if he did, it'd be to his parents of all people.

Furthermore, even assuming the extreme example of Bobby Banker, paying off eight grand per year, 80% of his debt will be gone in eight years, guaranteed, whereas Bobby Burger Flipper may never have that feeling as mortage and car costs and insurance mounts up, costs that Bobby Banker never has to worry about because he's making a cool 130K a year straight out of Uni.

F*ck, I'd work 120 hours a week for 130K a year. Then I'd just invest the lot into upcoming Chinese companies and retire.

Here's a f*cking tip, the wealthy have more cold hard moolah individually than the poor, therefore, a percentage of their wealth is less likely to hurt them financially than the same percentage applied to the poor, therefore it makes more sense to tax the rich because the rich have more that can be taxed. Taxing a burger flipper making six quid an hour to death is going to accomplish nothing, taxing every burger flipper making six quid an hour to death might do something but at the cost of extreme economic stimulation because the lower down in the classes you go, the higher percentage of income is actually spent. People with no jobs who are on benefits tend to spend ALL their benefits because they f*cking need it. Wheras those that have high-paying jobs or inherited money tend not to spend it because they invest or they save or they dish out inheritance or maybe they just feel like a brief three-month holiday somewhere.

If you take from those who have nothing, you end up with nothing.

If you take from those who have something, you end up with something.

If you take from those who have lots, you end up with lots.

THIS. IS. NOT. COMPLICATED. SH!T.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:53:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:39:02 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:24:27 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:22:42 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.:

He's saying the system itself is based on fraudulent premises that penalizes success and rewards laziness.

What is your opinion P_L?:

Askbob is absolutely right, and he elegantly arrived from A to B succinctly and concisely. This also isn't an exception to the rule or an isolated incident, which Ore seems to suggest.

Advanced and specialized nursing routinely make more than family practice doctors for the simple fact that doctors are so over-taxed. Owning a family practice, for instance, is a minefield of government bureaucracy.

Thank you. I think it's fundamentally wrong, and actually is a main contribution of inequality between the classes. I may be well off base, but when I actually watch it with my own two eyes, the cultures are so distinctly different in this way.
gavin.ogden
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1/17/2011 6:54:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:50:34 PM, Veridas wrote:
I love how deliberately blinded this view is.

Bobby Burger Flipper has to think about rent, bills, food, other such commodities that cost money. Money that Bobby Banker doesn't have to care about.

Additionally, it's unlikely that Bobby Banker would have that kind of debt because if Bobby Banker could afford to go to an Ivy League school then it implies that he wouldn't have any debt in the first place, or if he did, it'd be to his parents of all people.

Furthermore, even assuming the extreme example of Bobby Banker, paying off eight grand per year, 80% of his debt will be gone in eight years, guaranteed, whereas Bobby Burger Flipper may never have that feeling as mortage and car costs and insurance mounts up, costs that Bobby Banker never has to worry about because he's making a cool 130K a year straight out of Uni.

F*ck, I'd work 120 hours a week for 130K a year. Then I'd just invest the lot into upcoming Chinese companies and retire.

Here's a f*cking tip, the wealthy have more cold hard moolah individually than the poor, therefore, a percentage of their wealth is less likely to hurt them financially than the same percentage applied to the poor, therefore it makes more sense to tax the rich because the rich have more that can be taxed. Taxing a burger flipper making six quid an hour to death is going to accomplish nothing, taxing every burger flipper making six quid an hour to death might do something but at the cost of extreme economic stimulation because the lower down in the classes you go, the higher percentage of income is actually spent. People with no jobs who are on benefits tend to spend ALL their benefits because they f*cking need it. Wheras those that have high-paying jobs or inherited money tend not to spend it because they invest or they save or they dish out inheritance or maybe they just feel like a brief three-month holiday somewhere.

If you take from those who have nothing, you end up with nothing.

If you take from those who have something, you end up with something.

If you take from those who have lots, you end up with lots.

THIS. IS. NOT. COMPLICATED. SH!T.

If you worked 130 hours a week, you would make
$100k+ very easily. That's the point.
askbob
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1/17/2011 7:04:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:50:34 PM, Veridas wrote:
I'm an idiot please ignore me.

Ok
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Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Ore_Ele
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1/17/2011 7:17:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:19:07 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:15:45 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:10:09 PM, gavin.ogden wrote:
I've gotta go with askbob here. We are well on our way to socialism, which is fine, but don't disguise it as democracy when I'm getting taxed 35% of what I earn, and I watch these single, unemployed mothers of 6 getting $10K+ tax returns. How does that make sense? she did not even pay taxes, yet get's back the money that I paid in. That's pure bull$hit, and it needs to change asap. Ron Paul 2012.

I agree, but that is fraud use in the system. No system advocates fraud.

Do you know how common this is? I used to run a tax preparation business, and wanted to vomit in my mouth everyday. I used to be a democrat, for god's sake!

Considering the tax credit is only $1,000 per child, they would not make that $10,000 without other deductions. Also, the tax credit does not grant you money that you don't owe. It can only reduce your tax burden down to 0, not make the government owe you money.

So unless the unemployed person paid in $10,000 in federal taxes while unemployed (and had other tax credits), they are not going to get that money back.

http://hubpages.com...
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Awed
Posts: 44
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1/17/2011 8:45:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
John the Banker has a job that he'll probably only stick to for a few years at most. Although his job pays alright considering the work hours to be around 100+ hours a week, the bonuses usually make it worthwhile.

I have a family friend that had this type of job, 100k+ a year with 110+ hours a week, and honestly, these jobs are just ones that you briefly get after you graduate. It's pretty much impossible to keep one of these jobs for more than 5 years. You'll either move up in the company, or just get a different job offer from elsewhere. After that, your hours get a more reasonable, and pay increases. At that point, your life/career isn't affected too much by taxes as it was during your 100+ hour/week job.

Regardless, the tax system could probably use some fixing.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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1/17/2011 9:04:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 5:49:22 PM, askbob wrote:
"John the Banker" Vs. "Bobby Burger Flipper"

John the Banker
John the Banker is a freshly minted undergraduate degree holder. Because he went to an Ivy League institution, he has graduated with $100,000 in debt. John joins a famous Wall Street investment bank and is assigned on a deal team that does large cap deals. As a first-year investment banking analyst, he makes $100,000 a year at the firm's Miami office and is soon putting in about 120 hours per week.

Are you going to mention anything about the quality of work environment he enjoys? Does he have a demeaning job where he is covered in grease all day, at the beck and call of customers who don't truly value his services because both he and the customers know his productive ends aren't worth sh*t? The satisfaction of having a good job is an end in and of itself, and it is quite substantial. Your calculations fail to address any of tthis

Earning $100,000 a year, at 120 hours per week, and in the unfortunate scenario of 40,000 bonus, John's salary equates to $140,000.

After all taxes and using paycheckcity.com to calculate the taxes

Federal Withholding $32,229.00
Social Security $4,485.60
Medicare $2,030.00
New York$ 9,220.24
NY SDI$31.20

Net Salary - $92,003.96

Now as we've stated John works 120 hours a week. However he lives in the city and has an 45 minute commute which equals 1 1/2 hours per day to and from. This increases his weekly hours (he works sat and sunday) to 10.5 hours commute + 120 hour work = 130.5 hours

John gets 2 weeks for vacation per year and 1 week for sick days. Therefore he works 49 weeks. 49 weeks * 130.5 hours = 6394.5 hours per year

92,003.96 / 6394.5 = $14.38 per hour.


Additionally John has to pay back 100,000 of student loans from college.

But he got to go to college. College is what economists call a service. Bobby doesn't enjoy this service so the fact that he doesn't pay for it is as irrelevent as if I said that Bobby has to buy $100 worth of weed to smoke to put up with his demeaning, menial position that John doesn't have to pay for.

Furthermore Bobby the Burger flipper has 4 years of work on John.

Bobby Burger Flipper
Bobby Burger Flipper, is a full time manager at mcdonalds who makes 41,938 per year.

Managers aren't burger flippers. 40K is tremendously generous for a representation of the nation's proletariat.

Source: http://www.payscale.com...

With the following taxes being taken off,

Federal Withholding $6,084.50

Social Security $1,761.40

Medicar $608.10

Pennsylvania $1,287.50

PA SUI $33.55

His Net Salary is: $32,162.95

Bobby works 40 hours a week and works 48 weeks a year he gets 3 weeks of vacation and 1 week for sick days. He lives in a small suburb and has a 10 minute commute equally 20 each day for 5 days a week making the total 100 minutes or 1.66 hours extra per week.

48 * 40 = 1920 hours
48 * 1.66 = 80 hours

Total hours = 2000 per year.

32,162.95 / 2000 = 16.08 per hour.


Furthermore bobby has no educational loans and has 4 years more of work. So Bobby starts out with a

100000 + (32,162.95 * 4) = 228,651.8 advantage

Horrendously ridiculous. You get credit for working a shi11y job for four years but the other guy gets penalized for getting the opportunity of a lifetime and being able to study his dreams at college? Lol

As you can see, a progressive tax system is ridiculous. The mcdonalds employee makes more per hour than an IBanker and starts out with a quarter of a million dollars advantage.

Also we haven't even taken into consideration:

Time value of money
Standards of living (Ibankers in city, mcdonalds in suburbia)
Bobby taking three jobs to equal the amount of hours that John has.
Work to life balance (time spent with family, etc.)
Benefits Bobby's kids will receive over Johns in terms of tuition
Free Healthcare for Bobby's family that John's family does not receive
John goes to an Ivy League school where the tuition is 160,000 vs. 120,000.
John ended up changing majors and taking an extra year.
The physical toll john goes through (lack of sleep, social life, etc.)

You can add common sense to this list. You are actually saying that the mcd's guy has a higher standard of living? That is ridiculous. People with salaries work more and like to brag that their per hour is lower but you don't see them changing jobs back to burger flipper. Why? If what you say is true, everyone would be dropping out of yale and working at mcd's for more money. You are just playing with the numbers so they fit your ends. If I wasn't on my cell phone typing this right now I would be ripping you apart even more.
no comment
Grape
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1/17/2011 9:06:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 6:50:34 PM, Veridas wrote:

if Bobby Banker could afford to go to an Ivy League school then it implies that he wouldn't have any debt in the first place, or if he did, it'd be to his parents of all people.


I resent the stereotype that all people who go to elite schools have rich parents. Some people are smart and benefit from the generous finanical aid policies that these schools have. The Ivy League is basically free for children of working class parents (if you can get in, which is another battle).

I think askbob's example is exaggerated, but it's right in principle.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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1/17/2011 9:09:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/17/2011 9:06:57 PM, Grape wrote:
At 1/17/2011 6:50:34 PM, Veridas wrote:

if Bobby Banker could afford to go to an Ivy League school then it implies that he wouldn't have any debt in the first place, or if he did, it'd be to his parents of all people.


I resent the stereotype that all people who go to elite schools have rich parents. Some people are smart and benefit from the generous finanical aid policies that these schools have. The Ivy League is basically free for children of working class parents (if you can get in, which is another battle).

And then they'll likely be able to get scholarships and grants.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"