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National Sales Tax

lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
LaissezFaire
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2/1/2011 12:11:23 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
No. Instead, replace the income tax with nothing.
Should we subsidize education?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
FREEDO
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2/1/2011 12:13:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
If I had to pick between the two I would much much much rather have the income tax.
A national sales tax is essential a regressive income tax.
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lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:14:09 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Yeah I'm assuming the choice is between sales tax and income tax, not income tax and nothing.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:30:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I like the idea of my labor not being taxed, instead have my consumption be taxed. It also does away with the overly complex tax code.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:41:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
zGodMode
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2/1/2011 2:23:44 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:30:12 AM, lewis20 wrote:
I like the idea of my labor not being taxed, instead have my consumption be taxed. It also does away with the overly complex tax code.

The IRS is such an incredible waste of money.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption
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kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
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Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
PARADIGM_L0ST
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2/1/2011 8:13:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption:

How would it provide a disincentive? With more money in your pocket from no income tax, or FICA, for that matter, people would dump more money in to the economy. People don't go out and buy that new sofa or television because they're strapped for cash.

It's why the stimulus check didn't stimulate anything -- people used the paltry amount to pay off debts and loans for one whole month. Golly, that sure sounds like it's going to work!!! Thanks Uncle Sam, you f*cking retard. What a joke. It's AMAZING that people that stupid are in charge. It literally boggles the mind.

It would also make goods cheaper because businesses also pay these taxes. As it is, they embed their share of taxes within the price of the product so that the consumer is being taxed twice, once for their own personal share, the other to help cover the share of the businesses tax obligations.

Secondly, it's also far more fair in the sense that it eliminates the disparity between rich and poor. You only contribute to what you're actually purchasing, versus a blanket sum being extracted from you coercisively.

BUT the only way it could work is in tandem with elimination of many other wasteful government programs.
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lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:13:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption

Income tax provides a disincentive for working, payroll tax provides a disincentive for employing people, gas tax provides a disincentive for driving, property tax provides a disincentive for owning a home. Whats your point? I'm assuming with this question there isn't a choice for simply doing away with taxes.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
askbob
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2/1/2011 12:23:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:13:45 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption

Income tax provides a disincentive for working,

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people working less because of the income tax

LOL

Seriously dude.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:23:07 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:13:45 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption

Income tax provides a disincentive for working,

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people working less because of the income tax

LOL

Seriously dude.

Haha didn't realize you were around before the income tax to notice a change, brilliant argument. srsly bro

At the end of the day purchasing power of the consumer is exactly the same if the government takes 23% before you ever see the money as oppose to taking it when you go to buy something.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
askbob
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2/1/2011 12:42:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 8:13:02 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
How would it provide a disincentive? With more money in your pocket from no income tax, or FICA, for that matter, people would dump more money in to the economy. People don't go out and buy that new sofa or television because they're strapped for cash.

Any time something is taxed it provides a disincentive to do that. People could earn a bunch of money here then live in a foreign country. Foreigners would be unfairly taxed and thus less foreigners would buy our goods.

It's why the stimulus check didn't stimulate anything -- people used the paltry amount to pay off debts and loans for one whole month. Golly, that sure sounds like it's going to work!!! Thanks Uncle Sam, you f*cking retard. What a joke. It's AMAZING that people that stupid are in charge. It literally boggles the mind.

Are you advocating fiscal policy as an alternative LOL.

It would also make goods cheaper because businesses also pay these taxes. As it is, they embed their share of taxes within the price of the product so that the consumer is being taxed twice, once for their own personal share, the other to help cover the share of the businesses tax obligations.

Clearly shows a lack of knowledge of how business works. TAXES ARE ALWAYS PASSED ONTO THE CONSUMER.

Secondly, it's also far more fair in the sense that it eliminates the disparity between rich and poor. You only contribute to what you're actually purchasing, versus a blanket sum being extracted from you coercisively.

No it taxes the poor much more heavily and unfairly taxes retirement savings within social security and within Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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2/1/2011 12:43:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:23:07 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:13:45 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption

Income tax provides a disincentive for working,

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people working less because of the income tax

LOL

Seriously dude.

Haha didn't realize you were around before the income tax to notice a change, brilliant argument. srsly bro

false dichotomy
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
lewis20
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2/1/2011 12:52:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:43:37 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:23:07 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:13:45 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/1/2011 7:35:46 AM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:09:19 AM, lewis20 wrote:
~23% national sales tax to replace the income tax. I'm down, anyone agree/disagree with it.

I disagree, sales tax provides a disincentive for consumption

Income tax provides a disincentive for working,

Yeah I've noticed a lot of people working less because of the income tax

LOL

Seriously dude.

Haha didn't realize you were around before the income tax to notice a change, brilliant argument. srsly bro

false dichotomy

You're right "I've noticed" is a completely valid argument.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
J.Kenyon
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2/1/2011 12:58:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:11:23 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
No. Instead, replace the income tax with nothing.

This. However, if we had to have some sort of tax, I would prefer a land tax.
J.Kenyon
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2/1/2011 1:02:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At the end of the day purchasing power of the consumer is exactly the same if the government takes 23% before you ever see the money as oppose to taking it when you go to buy something.

Which is why it wouldn't discourage working any more than a sales tax would. If you tax a specific good, it might decrease consumption of that particular good, but if the tax is universal, it has the exact same economic effect as a flat income tax.

Also, a sales tax would tend be regressive and would massively disadvantage the poor and the middle class who have less disposable income and lower savings rates.
lewis20
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2/1/2011 1:03:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 12:58:41 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:11:23 AM, LaissezFaire wrote:
No. Instead, replace the income tax with nothing.

This. However, if we had to have some sort of tax, I would prefer a land tax.

Property tax? why
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/1/2011 1:17:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:02:20 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:

Also, a sales tax would tend be regressive and would massively disadvantage the poor and the middle class who have less disposable income and lower savings rates.

"The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes"
http://www.fairtax.org...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
askbob
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2/1/2011 1:27:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:02:20 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At the end of the day purchasing power of the consumer is exactly the same if the government takes 23% before you ever see the money as oppose to taking it when you go to buy something.

Which is why it wouldn't discourage working any more than a sales tax would. If you tax a specific good, it might decrease consumption of that particular good, but if the tax is universal, it has the exact same economic effect as a flat income tax.

This is incorrect. If you tax everything in the world universally then this is correct. However we are talking about the US implementing it not the world. Foreign goods would then be much cheaper than U.S. made goods/it would be cheaper to retire abroad. Either way you provide an incentive for most wealthy/retired people to leave the country and spend their money elsewhere
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
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2/1/2011 1:28:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:17:10 PM, lewis20 wrote:
"The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax.

Yes because rebates are far more efficient then just taxing it via income.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Reasoning
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2/1/2011 1:30:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What's the effectual difference between a sales tax and an income tax?

I'm drawing a blank.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
lewis20
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2/1/2011 1:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:27:49 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 1:02:20 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At the end of the day purchasing power of the consumer is exactly the same if the government takes 23% before you ever see the money as oppose to taking it when you go to buy something.

Which is why it wouldn't discourage working any more than a sales tax would. If you tax a specific good, it might decrease consumption of that particular good, but if the tax is universal, it has the exact same economic effect as a flat income tax.

This is incorrect. If you tax everything in the world universally then this is correct. However we are talking about the US implementing it not the world. Foreign goods would then be much cheaper than U.S. made goods/it would be cheaper to retire abroad. Either way you provide an incentive for most wealthy/retired people to leave the country and spend their money elsewhere

Just like our high corporate income tax causes companies to go elsewhere.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/1/2011 1:40:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:30:29 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What's the effectual difference between a sales tax and an income tax?

I'm drawing a blank.

I'm in favor if for no other reason than it does away with and closes loopholes the overly complex tax code.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
askbob
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2/1/2011 1:43:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:34:03 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Just like our high corporate income tax causes companies to go elsewhere.

Incorrect our high corporate income tax rate causes many people to avoid going public and instead fund most of their investments with debt rather than by going public and raising funds through equity.

LRN2 ECONOMICS
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
J.Kenyon
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2/1/2011 1:49:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:27:49 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 1:02:20 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 2/1/2011 12:38:53 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At the end of the day purchasing power of the consumer is exactly the same if the government takes 23% before you ever see the money as oppose to taking it when you go to buy something.

Which is why it wouldn't discourage working any more than a sales tax would. If you tax a specific good, it might decrease consumption of that particular good, but if the tax is universal, it has the exact same economic effect as a flat income tax.

This is incorrect. If you tax everything in the world universally then this is correct. However we are talking about the US implementing it not the world. Foreign goods would then be much cheaper than U.S. made goods/it would be cheaper to retire abroad. Either way you provide an incentive for most wealthy/retired people to leave the country and spend their money elsewhere

Hmm, didn't think of that. I guess that makes a sales tax even more harmful than an income tax...
askbob
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2/1/2011 1:54:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:49:31 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Hmm, didn't think of that. I guess that makes a sales tax even more harmful than an income tax...

that's my opinion. I'd be more for a tax on land or income tax. I never had thought of a tax on land until you brought it up.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
TheAtheistAllegiance
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2/1/2011 2:41:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:30:29 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What's the effectual difference between a sales tax and an income tax?

I'm drawing a blank.

The one is regressive. If you pay a 50 dollar tax on a good, and your income is 100 dollars, then you have essentially been taxed at a 50% rate. Whereas the guy that makes 5 grand is only taxed 1% of his income.
Reasoning
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2/1/2011 2:43:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 2:41:05 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 2/1/2011 1:30:29 PM, Reasoning wrote:
What's the effectual difference between a sales tax and an income tax?

I'm drawing a blank.

The one is regressive. If you pay a 50 dollar tax on a good, and your income is 100 dollars, then you have essentially been taxed at a 50% rate. Whereas the guy that makes 5 grand is only taxed 1% of his income.

I'm assuming a uniform income tax, just as we assume a uniform sales tax.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran