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Nickels

lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 5:02:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Invest in nickels, the current melt value is 7.2 cents.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/9/2011 5:07:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I wouldn't fancy getting jail time for 10 bucks
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/9/2011 5:19:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Funny, looking at the current values for copper and nickel, I only come to 6.47 per coin. Not to mention the energy used to melt the metals down would cost you something.

Going over the math, it would take .64 whr (2312.56 joules) to melt each nickel.

So to melt 1,000,000 nickels, you would have a revenue of about $64,700, cost of $50,000 for material, about $65 energy bill (assuming you used no other energy and the melting machine was 100% efficient). Plus other costs, like how the hell would you get 1,000,000 nickels and transport them (they would weight about 11,000 lbs)
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 5:21:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:07:20 PM, askbob wrote:
I wouldn't fancy getting jail time for 10 bucks

Ten bucks? Hell I'm getting 30k worth of nickels I'd risk the Secret Service stumbling onto my smelter for 9k
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/9/2011 5:23:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:19:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
Funny, looking at the current values for copper and nickel, I only come to 6.47 per coin. Not to mention the energy used to melt the metals down would cost you something.

Going over the math, it would take .64 whr (2312.56 joules) to melt each nickel.

So to melt 1,000,000 nickels, you would have a revenue of about $64,700, cost of $50,000 for material, about $65 energy bill (assuming you used no other energy and the melting machine was 100% efficient). Plus other costs, like how the hell would you get 1,000,000 nickels and transport them (they would weight about 11,000 lbs)

http://www.coinflation.com...
Theres where I'm looking and if you hold onto them for a while I'm sure the value is only going to rise.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
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2/9/2011 5:24:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also I'd like to say I'm simply pointing out that the nickel is worth 140% face value.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 5:29:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:19:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
Funny, looking at the current values for copper and nickel, I only come to 6.47 per coin. Not to mention the energy used to melt the metals down would cost you something.

Going over the math, it would take .64 whr (2312.56 joules) to melt each nickel.

So to melt 1,000,000 nickels, you would have a revenue of about $64,700, cost of $50,000 for material, about $65 energy bill (assuming you used no other energy and the melting machine was 100% efficient). Plus other costs, like how the hell would you get 1,000,000 nickels and transport them (they would weight about 11,000 lbs)

I'm glad you did all the calculations for me though, now I know the logistics I have to work through when I go through with this master plan of mine.
I found the stuff to melt down on ebay used its gonna be a lot less than 50k.
Though you do have to calculate the opportunity cost of melting nickels vs work, surprised you forgot that one.
As for the transportation I have a guy who owes me a favor.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Aibohphobia
Posts: 136
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2/9/2011 5:30:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'd just like to say our country's experiencing a horrible problem - nobody is using nickels. Use nickels. Nickels is money too guys.

(But in all seriousness I think Lewis does realize no one is actually going to melt nickels for money. I for one know I wouldn't if if they were worth one dollar melted down each. Too much effort.)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/9/2011 5:32:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:24:43 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Also I'd like to say I'm simply pointing out that the nickel is worth 140% face value.

But it is not in a form that is easily obtainable. I mean, you need to get Nickel to 1455 C to melt it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/9/2011 5:37:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:29:12 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:19:53 PM, OreEle wrote:
Funny, looking at the current values for copper and nickel, I only come to 6.47 per coin. Not to mention the energy used to melt the metals down would cost you something.

Going over the math, it would take .64 whr (2312.56 joules) to melt each nickel.

So to melt 1,000,000 nickels, you would have a revenue of about $64,700, cost of $50,000 for material, about $65 energy bill (assuming you used no other energy and the melting machine was 100% efficient). Plus other costs, like how the hell would you get 1,000,000 nickels and transport them (they would weight about 11,000 lbs)

I'm glad you did all the calculations for me though, now I know the logistics I have to work through when I go through with this master plan of mine.
I found the stuff to melt down on ebay used its gonna be a lot less than 50k.
Though you do have to calculate the opportunity cost of melting nickels vs work, surprised you forgot that one.
As for the transportation I have a guy who owes me a favor.

Also, correct about it being a little over 40% over face value (I dropped a 2 in place of a 3 by mistake)

You realize that you have to melt it at a while at around 1,200 C first, to get the copper out (the copper will be a liquid and the nickel will still be solid), then heat it to over 1,455 C to then melt the nickel.

Again, you are looking at best a $10,000 revenue before overhead costs are considered for 10,000 lb of material. You can't exactly go to a bank and pull out a million nickels.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/9/2011 5:38:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Sure, you can pull the excuse, "I'm openning a nickel arcade and need to stock up on nickels" for a little while, and do it at different banks, but you aren't going to find a million nickels to simply melt down within a reasonable area.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 6:03:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:38:58 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure, you can pull the excuse, "I'm openning a nickel arcade and need to stock up on nickels" for a little while, and do it at different banks, but you aren't going to find a million nickels to simply melt down within a reasonable area.

You'll see...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/9/2011 6:05:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 6:03:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:38:58 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure, you can pull the excuse, "I'm openning a nickel arcade and need to stock up on nickels" for a little while, and do it at different banks, but you aren't going to find a million nickels to simply melt down within a reasonable area.

You'll see...

Yeah, on the 10 'o' clock news when the feds are packing away your operation, lol.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/9/2011 9:57:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 6:05:34 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/9/2011 6:03:56 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:38:58 PM, OreEle wrote:
Sure, you can pull the excuse, "I'm openning a nickel arcade and need to stock up on nickels" for a little while, and do it at different banks, but you aren't going to find a million nickels to simply melt down within a reasonable area.

You'll see...

Yeah, on the 10 'o' clock news when the feds are packing away your operation, lol.

lol come on if rednecks can farm massive weed plantations here I'm sure I could get away with a small coin melting operation.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 1:22:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:02:46 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Invest in nickels, the current melt value is 7.2 cents.:

It's illegal to destroy legal tender, even if it's legally yours... Sounds fascist, eh? Also, I think copper is worth even more.

Say, that reminds me, pennies are ridiculous. The value of a penny is placed at one cent of 100 percent, yet it's value melted down is several times as valuable. Then factor in the price of mining for copper, shipping it to the mint, and the minting process itself. And what ends up happening? They sit under the seat cushions of your couch for all eternity or in your kids piggy bank.

It's the very definition of government inefficiency! They spent all this money making them, even though they're practically nothing in the market, and they're taken out of circulation anyway.

For f*ck's sake, Uncle Sam.... Get rid of pennies and do what the Europeans do. Round up or down to the nearest tenth.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/10/2011 1:30:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:22:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:02:46 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Invest in nickels, the current melt value is 7.2 cents.:

It's illegal to destroy legal tender, even if it's legally yours... Sounds fascist, eh? Also, I think copper is worth even more.

Say, that reminds me, pennies are ridiculous. The value of a penny is placed at one cent of 100 percent, yet it's value melted down is several times as valuable. Then factor in the price of mining for copper, shipping it to the mint, and the minting process itself. And what ends up happening? They sit under the seat cushions of your couch for all eternity or in your kids piggy bank.

It's the very definition of government inefficiency! They spent all this money making them, even though they're practically nothing in the market, and they're taken out of circulation anyway.

For f*ck's sake, Uncle Sam.... Get rid of pennies and do what the Europeans do. Round up or down to the nearest tenth.

but then stores can't price things to the nearest .99 to make them seem cheaper :(
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/10/2011 1:39:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:22:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:02:46 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Invest in nickels, the current melt value is 7.2 cents.:

It's illegal to destroy legal tender, even if it's legally yours... Sounds fascist, eh? Also, I think copper is worth even more.

Say, that reminds me, pennies are ridiculous. The value of a penny is placed at one cent of 100 percent, yet it's value melted down is several times as valuable. Then factor in the price of mining for copper, shipping it to the mint, and the minting process itself. And what ends up happening? They sit under the seat cushions of your couch for all eternity or in your kids piggy bank.

It's the very definition of government inefficiency! They spent all this money making them, even though they're practically nothing in the market, and they're taken out of circulation anyway.

For f*ck's sake, Uncle Sam.... Get rid of pennies and do what the Europeans do. Round up or down to the nearest tenth.

Pennies aren't made from copper anymore, they are made from Zinc, so they are no longer worth more then face value. Nickels will likely go the same way.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/10/2011 2:02:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:22:33 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:02:46 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Invest in nickels, the current melt value is 7.2 cents.:

It's illegal to destroy legal tender, even if it's legally yours... Sounds fascist, eh? Also, I think copper is worth even more.

Say, that reminds me, pennies are ridiculous. The value of a penny is placed at one cent of 100 percent, yet it's value melted down is several times as valuable. Then factor in the price of mining for copper, shipping it to the mint, and the minting process itself. And what ends up happening? They sit under the seat cushions of your couch for all eternity or in your kids piggy bank.

It's the very definition of government inefficiency! They spent all this money making them, even though they're practically nothing in the market, and they're taken out of circulation anyway.

For f*ck's sake, Uncle Sam.... Get rid of pennies and do what the Europeans do. Round up or down to the nearest tenth.

You're right, copper is probably worth more by now.
Also Its only illegal to melt coins for profit. You could just melt it down into bars and hold onto them for a while.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/11/2011 1:19:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/9/2011 5:32:16 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/9/2011 5:24:43 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Also I'd like to say I'm simply pointing out that the nickel is worth 140% face value.

But it is not in a form that is easily obtainable. I mean, you need to get Nickel to 1455 C to melt it.

Copper melts at 1086.

At 2/10/2011 1:30:54 PM, belle wrote:
but then stores can't price things to the nearest .99 to make them seem cheaper :(
http://en.wikipedia.org...

At 2/10/2011 1:39:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
Pennies aren't made from copper anymore, they are made from Zinc, so they are no longer worth more then face value. Nickels will likely go the same way.
Pennies minted prior to 1982 are 95% copper and worth about 3¢ melt value. Even with zinc, the current pennies cost 1.7¢ to mint. But the zinc lobby is ensuring they continue to be made. Steel pennies would be an improvement, but we would be better off just abolishing pennies like the rest of the civilized word.

Nickels are the same. A steel nickel would work quite well (or zinc perhaps, theres something for the lobby to support). But dont count on Congress doing either anytime soon. Bills have been brought up for years to no avail. Youd think something so easy to fix would be done in a swipe.

While on the topic, we should abolish the dollar bill as well, like Canada, and people will actually start to use the dollar coin. A $2 coin can be phased in later.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/11/2011 1:30:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
As for this whole thing, save your nickels. They will be useful as change when the US dollar goes to double digit or (possibly, altho I am skeptical) hyper inflation. The copper and nickel in the nickel will ALWAYS buy you a swedish fish, regardless of what the US dollar is. You will have to explain to the merchant that you are paying based on the metal value.

Thus, you can safely and wisely hoard nickels and get the benefit from it. No need to melt it down.

Read:
http://www.survivalblog.com...

That site is a bit bullish on nickel usage for their metal value. I am a bit skeptical of their utility. The metal value is really on the low end of the usable units of currency. What can you buy for 5 cents today? A piece of candy is about it. It still may be useful as change because a silver dime is worth $2.18 atm, and if you were buying a tomato from your neighbor, that would only cost maybe 50¢. You still need the change. A silver dime is worth about 30 nickels. 50¢ is about 7 nickels, so you would get 23 nickels change (actually you would probably get a silver war nickel ($1.70)).

Im still trying to figure out a way to give change for a silver dime. The next smallest piece is the silver war nickel as I said, but its 7/9 of a silver dime...thats not really workable for change. With 30 regular nickels to 1 silver dime, there needs to be at least one intermediate denomination, but there really is no practical coin for that. Maybe well go back to 1700 and cut dimes into halves and quarters. Then, you would only need to give change up to 7 regular nickels plus whatever amount of the silver dime.