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Maths? -A Cheap Superstition

racist
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4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
How damaging a superstition to permeate our culture – our belief in the magical power of Mathematics? "Math is crucial to civilization", they claim, to justify the torture of children in schools. To endure hours of inane tedium, justified by "it will be of value to them later".

Safe superstitions are ignored, harmful ones are unleashed. The protected and supported ones are all dangerous & our culture is overrun with them! We are brainwashed "the power of Maths."

Consider Math & Non-Math calculation. ‘Mathematics' is restricted to calculation. Counting, simple arithmetic, is not Mathematics. Mathematics involves Trigonometry, higher Algebra, Calculus, the Geometries, and various esoteric Math disciplines applied in Universities and similar institutions. Yet, these disciplines are already obsolete through computers - their ‘sophistication' still relies on simple counting as the main principle.

Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin. Was Math ever of value? How greatly has it retarded the advance of knowledge? It is called an exact science, yet has only an approximate means of guessing outcomes. The failure of Mathematical predictions is irrelevant to the skills of the Mathematician. Rather, it's an illumination of the inadequacy of the system itself!

Complex problems without Math? Analogue. Elementary problem : Calculus: estimate area under a curve. A map of an irregular parcel of land. We can get the area, given the equation of the curve. Finding this equation is usually improbable and becomes a purely artificial & useless action. In the real world, real people solve such problems with a simple farming device - a wheel at one end & a dial at the axis, rolled around the outline of the map and the happy little dial delivers an accurate working sum for that area - no pompous academic errors! A safe bridge? Build a scale model, save years of unpredictable maths.

Math, the superstition, assures us the world can be reduced to a simple equation. – but needs billions in funding to find it. "God is a Mathematician" & only "We" can read His mind. How glib! A practical query:: "What value did you gain from school maths?" The answer: "Nothing worth having". How is the cost justified? An academic scam. Colleges peddle the theory of ‘transference' - that useless disciplines - Ancient Greek, Logic, Mathematics , Philosophy, etc, whilst useless in themselves, somehow ‘discipline the mind" - enable the mastery of any subject. The record, shows the opposite. Transference doesn't just fail – it retards learning. Master a subject? Study it directly - with no de-facto surrogate. To retain mastery, learn new developments in that field. Today's graduates pass into commerce - & never open those tedious books again!

Awe for Maths perverts genuine learning. Elementary Math: "proportion" in primary schools: "If a man can dig a ditch in two days, how many days for two men?" Orthodoxy says one day. In the real world, results vary with the nature of the men and the task. In some, extra men obstruct each other - waste time talking.. Or become efficient - by complicating the task. One digs, the other hauls dirt. Result? More speed.

Falsity spawns mistakes for graduates – a skewed view of reality – that all men are equal and interchangeable - mere labor units. How was this pernicious superstition imposed in the first place?

Since the dawn of civilisation, the magic of numbers was fascinating. Rightly so, Counting is a vital conceptual faculty of humanity. We exceed other animals by our ability to count. Those best at it were elevated to the status of ‘Wiseman' and eventually – priests. Priesthoods created numerical records - forecasting eclipses, etc & bred awe in the general throng. Civilizations were dominated by such priests.Yet, this is not Maths, but simple counting. The Ancient Pythagoreans developed Mathematics. From there, numerical superstitions evolved . Special significance was bestowed on prime numbers, 3 and 7. An ancient superstitions is Numerology. Each letter of the alphabet gets a numerical value - eg 666, the number of the Beast. As this was taken so seriously, the Greek Pythagorean Cult devoted itself to "reading the mind of God" and working the manipulation of numbers by even more sophisticated means. So great became their prestige, millions of school children today still waste time on those calcified religious theorems.

Modern Science grew from such tradition. Because of the primacy of Maths, anything not amenable to Maths treatment [most of the Universe] was simply ignored as non-scientific. This obsession with Maths has & does retard our progress.. All the great breakthroughs were achieved, not by the elite Maths Sophisticates, but by the un-anointed dropouts.

Science developed a lofty, quasi-religious Maths-supported structure equipped with "Laws" - "the Laws of God." Though far from exact, they are merely an approximate fit for observed results. Their extrapolation has led down many false trails, because of Math superstition. Einstein arrogantly claimed - if the observations did not support his theory, "too bad for God - the theory is right!" Thus, world domination by moronic theories of ancient days, proven false by practical experience!

Recently, some sensible Maths nerds put advanced computing to "Chaos Theory". A breath of fresh air! But sadly enough, though the brainwashing tradition of Math prevailed. Most didn't grasp the significance of such revelation. Some Matherati imagine this study will let them calculate ‘chaotic systems'. The reverse is true. It only lets a mathematician determine the application of math to a system. If this system is chaotic - Math becomes useless. It follows, that this applies to everything! Chaos Theory proves Mathematics is useless. Since Maths is a useless superstition and all the other subjects taught in schools are false, politically biased and a waste of time, what are we to teach our children?

I have some modest suggestions: Computers are superstition proof. All knowledge is provisional. Never assume you know it all. For a useful contribution, keep learning. Find new developments. Never toss books away after graduation. Teach the art of civilized behavior - the difference between right and wrong - that crime does not pay – that policing ensures crime does not pay. Early training in Language, the Arts, etc, builds strong neural infrastructures that establish a confidence in our abilities for life. Sadly, parents behold their child as a toy, not as a real human being, unconcerned their child's learning may be not just useless, but dangerous.

The child of today is the citizen of tomorrow. Poorly informed citizens, untrained in critical thinking will make poor democrats. For democracy to work, citizens must actually govern the country. They need the best skills, the highest knowledge. The average person can be skilled in the Arts and versed in all knowledge, if it is made easy for them. But Educational policies are designed by obscurantists - the Professions appear beyond judgment. A wise public is not led astray by the frauds that bedevil us . The benchmark? Unmask the "givens" - the "Holy Writ." Mathematics is used to bewilder the public. To bestow a respectability and authority to all the frauds of Science and Politics. But we must grasp the opportunity - those who have enslaved us with their lies – shall never offer us a chisel for our chains.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/5/2011 1:12:49 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Math, the superstition

Yes 8)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
racist
Posts: 190
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4/5/2011 1:19:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:12:49 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Math, the superstition

Yes 8)

In my last religious exam I cheated - I looked into the soul of the boy next to me. I feel used.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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4/5/2011 1:23:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:19:27 AM, racist wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:12:49 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Math, the superstition

Yes 8)

In my last religious exam I cheated - I looked into the soul of the boy next to me. I feel used.

used by whom?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
belle
Posts: 4,113
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4/5/2011 1:26:56 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
i have no idea what math is and it pisses me off

i'm sorry :(
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
racist
Posts: 190
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4/5/2011 1:38:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:23:56 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:19:27 AM, racist wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:12:49 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Math, the superstition

Yes 8)

In my last religious exam I cheated - I looked into the soul of the boy next to me. I feel used.

used by whom?

Accountants and economists - whom else?
racist
Posts: 190
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4/5/2011 1:38:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:26:56 AM, belle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
i have no idea what math is and it pisses me off

i'm sorry :(

Duh!!
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/5/2011 1:40:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:38:13 AM, racist wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:23:56 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:19:27 AM, racist wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:12:49 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Math, the superstition

Yes 8)

In my last religious exam I cheated - I looked into the soul of the boy next to me. I feel used.

used by whom?

Accountants and economists - whom else?

I'm sorry that I used you. Next time I use you, I'll make sure to throw you away afterwards.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 1:49:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.

God I hope you never design a bridge that others have to drive on.

The child of today is the citizen of tomorrow. Poorly informed citizens, untrained in critical thinking will make poor democrats.

I'm sure convincing them that Math is evil is going to help balance the budget.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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4/5/2011 1:52:07 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
wait, without math how i find out if penis small enough to buy pills? how i know how much to pay for penis pills?
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 1:52:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:52:07 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
wait, without math how i find out if penis small enough to buy pills? how i know how much to pay for penis pills?

Or when that 4 hours is up?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
racist
Posts: 190
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4/5/2011 4:45:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:52:07 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
wait, without math how i find out if penis small enough to buy pills? how i know how much to pay for penis pills?

If you calculate wrong, and there's a cockup, you could end up in a 'Peniletentiary'. Cheers!
racist
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4/5/2011 4:47:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:40:08 AM, OreEle wrote:


I'm sorry that I used you. Next time I use you, I'll make sure to throw you away afterwards.

Listen! Just because I'm friendly, don't think I'm easy. Behave. Cheers!
racist
Posts: 190
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4/5/2011 4:52:21 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:49:25 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.

God I hope you never design a bridge that others have to drive on.

No time - I'm too busy working on a full service/maintenance manual for a Ford pickup - IN LATIN - with Da Vinci type woodcuts & all.

The child of today is the citizen of tomorrow. Poorly informed citizens, untrained in critical thinking will make poor democrats.

I'm sure convincing them that Math is evil is going to help balance the budget.

I'm also doing a 1500 word book on why accountancy is not boring - with flow charts, power point - class act. Cheers!
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
How damaging a superstition to permeate ified by "it will be of value to them later".

Safe superstitions are ignored, harmful ones are unleashed. The protected and supported ones are all dangerous & our culture is overrun with them! We are brainwashed "the power of Maths."

Consider Math & Non-Math calculation. `Mathematics' is restricted to calculation. Counting, simple arithmetic, is not Mathematics. Mathematics involves Trigonometry, higher Algebra, Calculus, the Geometries, and various esoteric Math disciplines applied in Universities and similar institutions. Yet, these disciplines are already obsolete through computers - their `sophistication' still relies on simple counting as the main principle.

Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin. Was Math ever of value? How greatly has it retarded the advance of knowledge? It is called an exact science, yet has only an approximate means of guessing outcomes. The failure of Mathematical predictions is irrelevant to the skills of the Mathematician. Rather, it's an illumination of the inadequacy of the system itself!

Complex problems without Math? Analogue. Elementary problem : Calculus: estimate area under a curve. A map of an irregular parcel of land. We can get the area, given the equation of the curve. Finding this equation is usually improbable and becomes a purely artificial & useless action. In the real world, real people solve such problems with a simple farming device - a wheel at one end & a dial at the axis, rolled around the outline of the map and the happy little dial delivers an accurate working sum for that area - no pompous academic errors! A safe bridge? Build a scale model, save years of unpredictable maths.

Math, the superstition, assures us the world can be reduced to a simple equation. - but needs billions in funding to find it. "God is a Mathematician" & only "We" can read His mind. How glib! A practical query:: "What value did you gain from school maths?" The answer: "Nothing worth having". How is the cost justified? An academic scam. Colleges peddle the theory of `transference' - that useless disciplines - Ancient Greek, Logic, Mathematics , Philosophy, etc, whilst useless in themselves, somehow `discipline the mind" - enable the mastery of any subject. The record, shows the opposite. Transference doesn't just fail - it retards learning. Master a subject? Study it directly - with no de-facto surrogate. To retain mastery, learn new developments in that field. Today's graduates pass into commerce - & never open those tedious books again!

Awe for Maths perverts genuine learning. Elementary Math: "proportion" in primary schools: "If a man can dig a ditch in two days, how many days for two men?" Orthodoxy says one day. In the real world, results vary with the nature of the men and the task. In some, extra men obstruct each other - waste time talking.. Or become efficient - by complicating the task. One digs, the other hauls dirt. Result? More speed.

Falsity spawns mistakes for graduates - a skewed view of reality - that all men are equal and interchangeable - mere labor units. How was this pernicious superstition imposed in the first place?

Since the dawn of civilisation, the magic of numbers was fascinating. Rightly so, Counting is a vital conceptual faculty of humanity. We exceed other animals by our ability to count. Those best at it were elevated to the status of `Wiseman' and eventually - priests. Priesthoods created numerical records - forecasting eclipses, etc & bred awe in the general throng. Civilizations were dominated by such priests.Yet, this is not Maths, but simple counting. The Ancient Pythagoreans developed Mathematics. From there, numerical superstitions evolved . Special significance was bestowed on prime numbers, 3 and 7. An ancient superstitions is Numerology. Each letter of the alphabet gets a numerical value - eg 666, the number of the Beast. As this was taken so seriously, the Greek Pythagorean Cult devoted itself to "reading the mind of God" and working the manipulation of numbers by even more sophisticated means. So great became their prestige, millions of school children today still waste time on those calcified religious theorems.

Modern Science grew from such tradition. Because of the primacy of Maths, anything not amenable to Maths treatment [most of the Universe] was simply ignored as non-scientific. This obsession with Maths has & does retard our progress.. All the great breakthroughs were achieved, not by the elite Maths Sophisticates, but by the un-anointed dropouts.

Science developed a lofty, quasi-religious Maths-supported structure equipped with "Laws" - "the Laws of God." Though far from exact, they are merely an approximate fit for observed results. Their extrapolation has led down many false trails, because of Math superstition. Einstein arrogantly claimed - if the observations did not support his theory, "too bad for God - the theory is right!" Thus, world domination by moronic theories of ancient days, proven false by practical experience!

Recently, some sensible Maths nerds put advanced computing to "Chaos Theory". A breath of fresh air! But sadly enough, though the brainwashing tradition of Math prevailed. Most didn't grasp the significance of such revelation. Some Matherati imagine this study will let them calculate `chaotic systems'. The reverse is true. It only lets a mathematician determine the application of math to a system. If this system is chaotic - Math becomes useless. It follows, that this applies to everything! Chaos Theory proves Mathematics is useless. Since Maths is a useless superstition and all the other subjects taught in schools are false, politically biased and a waste of time, what are we to teach our children?

I have some modest suggestions: Computers are superstition proof. All knowledge is provisional. Never assume you know it all. For a useful contribution, keep learning. Find new developments. Never toss books away after graduation. Teach the art of civilized behavior - the difference between right and wrong - that crime does not pay - that policing ensures crime does not pay. Early training in Language, the Arts, etc, builds strong neural infrastructures that establish a confidence in our abilities for life. Sadly, parents behold their child as a toy, not as a real human being, unconcerned their child's learning may be not just useless, but dangerous.

The child of today is the citizen of tomorrow. Poorly informed citizens, untrained in critical thinking will make poor democrats. For democracy to work, citizens must actually govern the country. They need the best skills, the highest knowledge. The average person can be skilled in the Arts and versed in all knowledge, if it is made easy for them. But Educational policies are designed by obscurantists - the Professions appear beyond judgment. A wise public is not led astray by the frauds that bedevil us . The benchmark? Unmask the "givens" - the "Holy Writ." Mathematics is used to bewilder the public. To bestow a respectability and authority to all the frauds of Science and Politics. But we must grasp the opportunity - those who have enslaved us with their lies - shall never offer us a chisel for our chains.

The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 12:27:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM, vbaculum wrote:
The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.

If you ever own a business, then you will want to understand analysis, or hire someone that does. Same goes if you are going to be designing any kind of product. You need to know under what forces it is at risk of breaking or not working properly (or hire someone that does).

If we want children to be able to go out into the world and find their own niche (as in have the potential to be self-made entrepreneurs), then they need to be able to do the things to be successful (since they often won't be able to fork out for market analysis, designers, and such right off the bat).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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4/5/2011 12:49:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 12:27:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM, vbaculum wrote:
The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.

If you ever own a business, then you will want to understand analysis, or hire someone that does. Same goes if you are going to be designing any kind of product. You need to know under what forces it is at risk of breaking or not working properly (or hire someone that does).

If we want children to be able to go out into the world and find their own niche (as in have the potential to be self-made entrepreneurs), then they need to be able to do the things to be successful (since they often won't be able to fork out for market analysis, designers, and such right off the bat).

Yeah, I work with soft things (software) so I confess I don't know much about the process of making something hard that can be broken. Software can be broken metaphorically of course but, though there are many testing methodologies, I'm not familiar with any that rely on higher mathmatics.

I'm not sure what you mean by "analysis" but does that require mathmatics that is not learned in elementary school (ie. algebra and higher). Honestly, if entrepreneuralism required higher math I don't think we would have much of an economy. The entrepernuers I've known were not math geeks.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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4/5/2011 12:57:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 12:49:30 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:27:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM, vbaculum wrote:
The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.

If you ever own a business, then you will want to understand analysis, or hire someone that does. Same goes if you are going to be designing any kind of product. You need to know under what forces it is at risk of breaking or not working properly (or hire someone that does).

If we want children to be able to go out into the world and find their own niche (as in have the potential to be self-made entrepreneurs), then they need to be able to do the things to be successful (since they often won't be able to fork out for market analysis, designers, and such right off the bat).

Yeah, I work with soft things (software) so I confess I don't know much about the process of making something hard that can be broken. Software can be broken metaphorically of course but, though there are many testing methodologies, I'm not familiar with any that rely on higher mathmatics.

I'm not sure what you mean by "analysis" but does that require mathmatics that is not learned in elementary school (ie. algebra and higher). Honestly, if entrepreneuralism required higher math I don't think we would have much of an economy. The entrepernuers I've known were not math geeks.

All math is fundementally based off of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Even calculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Alegbra (sophmore college math).

I don't know what other schools require. Mine only required Alegbra II as the highest math to graduate (Trig and Calculus were optional, though I think Trig and a statistics class ought be required).

Calculus is used to find minimums and maximum on complex curves. And so can be used to find the ideal investment amounts on marketing or research, or whatever. It is also used to indicate trends, so that companies can try to see what is coming before it hits (and thus prepare for it and either brace, or even prevent).

The number 1 reason that new businesses fail is because people don't know how to run a business (not because they don't know their product/service that they are trying to sell).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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4/5/2011 1:08:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 12:57:35 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:49:30 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:27:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM, vbaculum wrote:
The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.

If you ever own a business, then you will want to understand analysis, or hire someone that does. Same goes if you are going to be designing any kind of product. You need to know under what forces it is at risk of breaking or not working properly (or hire someone that does).

If we want children to be able to go out into the world and find their own niche (as in have the potential to be self-made entrepreneurs), then they need to be able to do the things to be successful (since they often won't be able to fork out for market analysis, designers, and such right off the bat).

Yeah, I work with soft things (software) so I confess I don't know much about the process of making something hard that can be broken. Software can be broken metaphorically of course but, though there are many testing methodologies, I'm not familiar with any that rely on higher mathmatics.

I'm not sure what you mean by "analysis" but does that require mathmatics that is not learned in elementary school (ie. algebra and higher). Honestly, if entrepreneuralism required higher math I don't think we would have much of an economy. The entrepernuers I've known were not math geeks.

All math is fundementally based off of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Even calculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Alegbra (sophmore college math).

I don't know what other schools require. Mine only required Alegbra II as the highest math to graduate (Trig and Calculus were optional, though I think Trig and a statistics class ought be required).

Calculus is used to find minimums and maximum on complex curves. And so can be used to find the ideal investment amounts on marketing or research, or whatever. It is also used to indicate trends, so that companies can try to see what is coming before it hits (and thus prepare for it and either brace, or even prevent).

Yeah, I can see that. But I bet software is used for that kind of think. I guess it wouldn't hurt to know what's going on under the hood of course.

The number 1 reason that new businesses fail is because people don't know how to run a business (not because they don't know their product/service that they are trying to sell).

Sure, seems reasonable. But is it a failure to understand math that cause business to fail or is it the fact that running a business is complicated for many other reasons.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Ore_Ele
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4/5/2011 1:30:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 1:08:46 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:57:35 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:49:30 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:27:05 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 4/5/2011 12:19:55 PM, vbaculum wrote:
The best argument I've heard for teaching higher math to people who will not use it later, is that math improves thinking skills. I think if you replaced most of math in highschool with phylosophy subjects (ethics, logic, epistomology, philosophy of mind, etc) you would get graduates who were much better at thinking about important matters.

I work in a technical field and I've never needed anything above simple math and I don't expect I ever will. It's surprisingly useless. I realize there are needs for higher math of course but they seem to be very rare.

If you ever own a business, then you will want to understand analysis, or hire someone that does. Same goes if you are going to be designing any kind of product. You need to know under what forces it is at risk of breaking or not working properly (or hire someone that does).

If we want children to be able to go out into the world and find their own niche (as in have the potential to be self-made entrepreneurs), then they need to be able to do the things to be successful (since they often won't be able to fork out for market analysis, designers, and such right off the bat).

Yeah, I work with soft things (software) so I confess I don't know much about the process of making something hard that can be broken. Software can be broken metaphorically of course but, though there are many testing methodologies, I'm not familiar with any that rely on higher mathmatics.

I'm not sure what you mean by "analysis" but does that require mathmatics that is not learned in elementary school (ie. algebra and higher). Honestly, if entrepreneuralism required higher math I don't think we would have much of an economy. The entrepernuers I've known were not math geeks.

All math is fundementally based off of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Even calculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Alegbra (sophmore college math).

I don't know what other schools require. Mine only required Alegbra II as the highest math to graduate (Trig and Calculus were optional, though I think Trig and a statistics class ought be required).

Calculus is used to find minimums and maximum on complex curves. And so can be used to find the ideal investment amounts on marketing or research, or whatever. It is also used to indicate trends, so that companies can try to see what is coming before it hits (and thus prepare for it and either brace, or even prevent).

Yeah, I can see that. But I bet software is used for that kind of think. I guess it wouldn't hurt to know what's going on under the hood of course.

People who know how a car runs are better suited to take car of a car and make it even better.


The number 1 reason that new businesses fail is because people don't know how to run a business (not because they don't know their product/service that they are trying to sell).

Sure, seems reasonable. But is it a failure to understand math that cause business to fail or is it the fact that running a business is complicated for many other reasons.

True, there are other things, but math is a major factor (from analysis to balancing their GJ and T-accounts), as well as dealing with customers and marketing (or failure to effectively do so).

Of course, Math is not the only feature, but it is a big one.
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Grape
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4/5/2011 3:03:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Rofl @ this thread

How do you think they designed your computer? I assume all the chemistry and physics must be done with scale models!
LaissezFaire
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4/5/2011 3:11:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 3:11:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.
Except that Latin did not go extinct.

That's the problem with this statement? Not his claim that math is obsolete, but that Latin is?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
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Mirza
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4/5/2011 3:12:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 3:11:56 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 4/5/2011 3:11:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.
Except that Latin did not go extinct.

That's the problem with this statement? Not his claim that math is obsolete, but that Latin is?
One is common sense for most, the other is actually far more believable.
racist
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4/5/2011 8:05:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 3:11:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.
Except that Latin did not go extinct.

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racist
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4/5/2011 8:10:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 3:03:53 PM, Grape wrote:
Rofl @ this thread

How do you think they designed your computer? I assume all the chemistry and physics must be done with scale models!

Agreed - but the computer builders and chemists were not forced to do it under the coercive threat of 'educational' blackmail. Maths is terrific - but not for those who endure it as a torture. Unless you're into the nasty leather type stuff anyway, eh?
rarugged
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4/5/2011 9:54:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Another typical and querulous whiner complaining about the circumstances of his life, except, albeit, in a more intriguingly provocative fashion.

Without math, you wouldn't be writing this harangue.

Why are we "forced" to learn math? Number one, the math children are "forced" to learn are the rudiments... nothing of complexity. Should require nothing more from the mind than simple attention for less than an hour a day.

But to answer that question, the government needs to prepare its citizens to survive in the real world. Sounds obvious, but what advice isn't? You want to pay your taxes? You need math. You want to buy a house? You need math.

Yes, you can use a calculator, but how did you earn the money to buy that calculator in the first place, let alone travel to that store? Everything demands some sort of mathematics, elementary, as it is.

Gods, why do I bother explicating the obvious.
If Jesus came back tomorrow, a cross would be the last thing he would want to see.
rarugged
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4/5/2011 10:02:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Moreover, you have entirely no evidence to warrant your claims. So in the "scientific" world, your diatribe would be entirely dismissed as garbage.

Yet, that's what you're complaining about in the first place, isn't it?

How ironic.

You comment how the "great" math and science was done by "drop-outs". I hardly can see a single grain of truth in that. There are isolated cases, true enough, but the VAST majority of academic achievement in these fields were accomplished through the diligence and meticulous study of academics and learned men and women. You don't see "drop-outs" formulating the laws of physics, etc.

And your concluding sentiments on the status quo and how the children are corrupted by this flawed system? Not to mention the unfounded assertions, your statements are simply irrelevant. I don't see how math can ever be politically biased. Why would politicians even concern themselves with the mathematics curriculum of children these days? The ingenuity of the subject is how "incorruptible" it is. You can twist the words in history and literature to make it appear to the contrary, but you can't simply "de-logicalize" mathematics. There are inexorable results. It is simply impossible to rationally "tamper" with math.

That's why it is so applicable and remains to be. Your comments are taken in good grace but are simply a provocative means of argumentation, not a logical medium for genuine debate.
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darkkermit
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4/5/2011 10:44:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/5/2011 3:11:56 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 4/5/2011 3:11:01 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 4/5/2011 1:09:02 AM, racist wrote:
Maths is obsolete. An extinct language, like Latin.
Except that Latin did not go extinct.

That's the problem with this statement? Not his claim that math is obsolete, but that Latin is?

Yep, latin is the ultimately way to sound super smart in a debate. Using a few latin phrases will surely give you the de facto victory.
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