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Napoleon

blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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1/3/2012 7:16:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In social studies, we are debating whether Napoleon should be remembered as hero or villain. I was assigned to work with the group arguing that he should be remembered as a villain.
So far, I can compare him to Hitler and Stalin for bad things, and show that he shouldn't be put in the same class as people like Washington and Eisenhower.
I can also argue his slave trade endorsement.

Anyone have ideas for other things to argue?
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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1/3/2012 8:19:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/3/2012 7:16:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
In social studies, we are debating whether Napoleon should be remembered as hero or villain. I was assigned to work with the group arguing that he should be remembered as a villain.
So far, I can compare him to Hitler and Stalin for bad things, and show that he shouldn't be put in the same class as people like Washington and Eisenhower.
I can also argue his slave trade endorsement.

Anyone have ideas for other things to argue?

Slave trade endorsement is something he has in common with many world leaders, particularly from that time. If you're taking it from the vantage of general atrocities, I'd say be has that in common with just about every major leader that ever lived. Perhaps a better vantage is to discuss ways he was bad for his country.
blackhawk1331
Posts: 4,932
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1/3/2012 9:36:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/3/2012 8:19:14 PM, Ren wrote:
At 1/3/2012 7:16:47 PM, blackhawk1331 wrote:
In social studies, we are debating whether Napoleon should be remembered as hero or villain. I was assigned to work with the group arguing that he should be remembered as a villain.
So far, I can compare him to Hitler and Stalin for bad things, and show that he shouldn't be put in the same class as people like Washington and Eisenhower.
I can also argue his slave trade endorsement.

Anyone have ideas for other things to argue?

Slave trade endorsement is something he has in common with many world leaders, particularly from that time. If you're taking it from the vantage of general atrocities, I'd say be has that in common with just about every major leader that ever lived. Perhaps a better vantage is to discuss ways he was bad for his country.

Well our teacher told us that one thing we want to do is show how he didn't support the ideals of the french revolution. One of the ideals is equality. Plus with slaves, I'm also using the fact that he killed hundreds of thousands of them.
Because you said it was a waste, numb nuts. - Drafter

So fvck you. :) - TV

Use prima facie correctly or not at all. - Noumena
mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/10/2012 1:21:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Stalin was a hero. just like Napoleon. the current image of Stalin was painted by liberals, which is very distorted. refer this link,

www.greatstalin.ru

I think Napoleon was revolutionary and hero, although there's his share of faults. People in napolenic war era, accepted him as a savior by large. The real 'revisionism' is actually done by modern liberal historians and people.

The great heroes are not determined by number of deaths they brought about, but their historic roles in human history as liberator of people and progress thru conveying people's collective wil to history. Napoleon and Stalin did this. Hitler might have almost succeeed but has failed.

If you want to know about Stalin, there's not much in english. I recommend to read Komsomol and Pravda articles in russian.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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1/10/2012 6:08:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 1:21:03 AM, mrbusy wrote:
Stalin was a hero. just like Napoleon. the current image of Stalin was painted by liberals, which is very distorted. refer this link,

www.greatstalin.ru

I think Napoleon was revolutionary and hero, although there's his share of faults. People in napolenic war era, accepted him as a savior by large. The real 'revisionism' is actually done by modern liberal historians and people.

The great heroes are not determined by number of deaths they brought about, but their historic roles in human history as liberator of people and progress thru conveying people's collective wil to history. Napoleon and Stalin did this. Hitler might have almost succeeed but has failed.

If you want to know about Stalin, there's not much in english. I recommend to read Komsomol and Pravda articles in russian.

A fascist disguised as a communist is not a hero.

I can only conclude that you must be some sort of conservative troll who is attempting to run a smear campaign against communists. Perhaps you are a multi-accounter?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/10/2012 6:30:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 6:08:40 PM, royalpaladin wrote:

A fascist disguised as a communist is not a hero.

I can only conclude that you must be some sort of conservative troll who is attempting to run a smear campaign against communists. Perhaps you are a multi-accounter?

Fascism and Communism are both authoritarian.
Fascism is far right. Communism is far left.
Fascism is total control socially. Communism is total control economically.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mrbusy
Posts: 29
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1/12/2012 3:14:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 1/10/2012 6:08:40 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 1/10/2012 1:21:03 AM, mrbusy wrote:
Stalin was a hero. just like Napoleon. the current image of Stalin was painted by liberals, which is very distorted. refer this link,

A fascist disguised as a communist is not a hero.

I can only conclude that you must be some sort of conservative troll who is attempting to run a smear campaign against communists. Perhaps you are a multi-accounter?

Stalin was a fascist? He was a warm-hearted christian poet, revolutionary and communist. He had built Soviet Union and made great economic progress despite of extremely harsh international environment and unprecedented damage of war. and he fought against European fascist united forces -that means not only Nazis!- and have won. Most of people in Stalin's reign, were happy despite of great hardship fell upon them. Even Churchill showed respect like any other contemporaries in his time. and Khrushchev who defamed Stalin was abhored by stalinists and contemporaries as a betrayer.

Now russian poll says 2/3 of people including not only war veterans but also new generation is for Stalin or at least accept him as a national hero, which is not accidental, Because for 20 years russian history was biasedly viewed from liberal's view like how many casualties in stalin period etc. However, if anybody is seriously in russian history and meticuosly analyse the documents of his time and facts, one will eventually recognize what he had done was actually not only necessary but crucial for Soviet Union and Socialism and even for the people in capitalist world. I am a communist but I sincerely think this world had saved by him regardless where your political viewpoint lies.

Stalin's work (Сочинения Сталина) is consisted of various volumes and sets of books according to publish, is essential for anyone to study and understand great minds like Stalin. Also there are many studies are available in russian. Whether stalinist,anti-stalinist viewpoint their authors have, they are worth reading and greatly helpful to understand 20C. I don't blame you for what you think now, because it is typical conclusion that one can reach from maliciously woven fictitious stories fueled by liberalism of today by so called 'free-world' historians.

You said you're Marx-leninist but not liberal. Tovarish, but your understading or communism is too much of idealistic that only liberal minded Social-democrats (such as scumback Trotsky) can agree. In real history, these great minds like Mao,Stalin and Kim have actually fought, won and build great nations against capitalists world. They did what their time required to do for proletaria with unwavering decision and personal sacrifice. Those steps might seem like a small step compare to adversaries, but if you really look into history, I have a hope you'll understand.

So comrade, May the truth be with us!

http://www.northstarcompass.org...