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How do Ivy Leagues help?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

I'm beginning to wonder what the point of Ivies are. Is it really worth it? Can't I still get to the same destination and still be equally as successful with a state college offering mind blowing deals?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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3/25/2012 6:40:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It's the name. Although the education might be the same in other universities, it is the name and when you have an Ivy League name written on your resume, you have a far greater chance at getting a well paying job.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2012 6:43:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:40:31 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
It's the name. Although the education might be the same in other universities, it is the name and when you have an Ivy League name written on your resume, you have a far greater chance at getting a well paying job.

but whatever "greater" amount of income you get though an Ivy League is offset by the debt accumulated from going there. Going to college for free and still having access to those jobs just seems better. Will an employer for a law firm for example really look at 2 resumes and accept 1 over the other because he sees Harvard? I thought it was the GPA and credentials that mattered.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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3/25/2012 6:51:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:43:58 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/25/2012 6:40:31 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
It's the name. Although the education might be the same in other universities, it is the name and when you have an Ivy League name written on your resume, you have a far greater chance at getting a well paying job.

but whatever "greater" amount of income you get though an Ivy League is offset by the debt accumulated from going there. Going to college for free and still having access to those jobs just seems better. Will an employer for a law firm for example really look at 2 resumes and accept 1 over the other because he sees Harvard? I thought it was the GPA and credentials that mattered.

Your young yet, and you are about to learn the most important lesson in life. "It's not what you know it's who you know. Why do you think you see so many unqualified people making so much money" The general manager where I work part time is a prime example. I have not yet after ten years figured out just what it is he does that benefits the company.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2012 6:59:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In many job applications, you could cut off half of your resume and replace it with the name of an Ivy League college. It would work, and you'd be hired. I think Dartmouth was ranked number 1 in undergraduate teachings. Other Ivy League universities also rank top in other areas. This means a lot, since the employer will know that by having gone through Dartmouth, you also went through some top-class education due to the ranking.

And Ivy Leagues do accept your scores. If you don't have high grades, you won't get in. Employers know immediately that if you were accepted into an Ivy League school, you did it with a proud record.

It's somewhat sad that study debts plague so many people, and I don't think it's necessarily worth going to an Ivy League if it is too burdensome.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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3/25/2012 7:00:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:59:11 PM, Mirza wrote:
And Ivy Leagues do look at your scores. If you don't have high grades, you won't get in. Employers know immediately that if you were accepted into an Ivy League school, you did it with a proud record.
Correction.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 7:01:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

I'm beginning to wonder what the point of Ivies are. Is it really worth it? Can't I still get to the same destination and still be equally as successful with a state college offering mind blowing deals?

What a sad story. An Ivy League is an excellent accomplishments and there's a lot they have to offer, but pragmatically speaking, Rutgers had the better offer by far. Rutgers is not a garbage or nobody Uni. I'm almost sure Rutgers is a top 50.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,759
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3/25/2012 7:07:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'd say where you go for undergrad really doesn't matter. Where you go for medical school doesn't matter too much either. What does matter is if you go to grad school, business school, or law school. That's when you really want to go to a top school, because you will actually notice the difference in education and you will actually develop connections that could have a significant effect on your career options.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/25/2012 7:09:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

I'm beginning to wonder what the point of Ivies are. Is it really worth it? Can't I still get to the same destination and still be equally as successful with a state college offering mind blowing deals?

That's an interesting choice. Rutgers is considered a public ivy and is highly respected. Adding those benefits you mentioned would have made the deal that much sweeter. Still, I believe one's fit with a school is the most important factor. I was accepted into two ivies, one of which offered a full scholarship. I chose the other, despite some cost, because I knew the fit was better. As long as your sister enjoyed the experience, more power to her.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/25/2012 7:36:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

I'm beginning to wonder what the point of Ivies are. Is it really worth it? Can't I still get to the same destination and still be equally as successful with a state college offering mind blowing deals?:

I think that was foolish. She essentially assumed a ton of debt for a name, hoping that name would guarantee her future success which she could have gotten via the Rutgers deal.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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3/25/2012 7:42:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That's an interesting choice. Rutgers is considered a public ivy and is highly respected.:

Yeah, Rutgers isn't exactly a chump school. It may not be Dartmouth, but it's definitely not Podunk Community College either.

Did she explain her rationale for choosing Dartmouth?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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3/25/2012 7:48:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 7:42:38 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
That's an interesting choice. Rutgers is considered a public ivy and is highly respected.:

Yeah, Rutgers isn't exactly a chump school. It may not be Dartmouth, but it's definitely not Podunk Community College either.

Did she explain her rationale for choosing Dartmouth?

It was an Ivy league, and the acceptance took her by surprise. It seems like you guys respect Rutgers, but here in New Jersey it's dragged through the mud. No one feels special or accomplished going to Rutgers because it has such a wide range of GPAs and SATs it accepts and also because so many people get accepted. I guess an Ivy was just more inviting
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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3/25/2012 11:40:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 7:48:08 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 3/25/2012 7:42:38 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
That's an interesting choice. Rutgers is considered a public ivy and is highly respected.:

Yeah, Rutgers isn't exactly a chump school. It may not be Dartmouth, but it's definitely not Podunk Community College either.

Did she explain her rationale for choosing Dartmouth?

It was an Ivy league, and the acceptance took her by surprise. It seems like you guys respect Rutgers, but here in New Jersey it's dragged through the mud. No one feels special or accomplished going to Rutgers because it has such a wide range of GPAs and SATs it accepts and also because so many people get accepted. I guess an Ivy was just more inviting

I live in Jersey and Rutgers has cred. We're just more familiar with it and, as such, are less impressed by it. Still, it is a nationally respected university. Like I said before, though, it doesn't really matter if the fit for her was wrong.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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4/29/2012 9:09:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The OP's sister made a dumb choice IMO. As others have pointed out, the reason many choose an Ivy League school is to increase their chance of success (job placement) upon graduation. Choosing Rutgers would not only have eliminated the burden of his sister's loan debt, but made it easier and more accessible for her to attend med school thereby also setting up a pretty great opportunity for success after college, and at NO cost.

Plus, Rutgers is a good school. While it's true that it's not as selective upon admission as Ivy's, what I've found throughout my tenure at Rutgers is that a lot of people just don't make it. The 4-year graduation rate is something like 50% and the 5 year plan is not much higher. I know a ton of people who failed out at least once; some returned and some didn't. In my experience, the faculty is pretty great too.

I dunno what ike plans on majoring in, but living just a few minutes from RU I'd say your best bet is to commute to RU and just focus on getting good grades. If you're going to care about a school for its name sake, at least make it grad/ med/ law school - not Undergrad. Here you should just continue beefing up your resume even for your grad school apps, and make sure to join a lot of clubs and stuff (academic if that's your thing) to make friends and network for opportunities.
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Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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5/3/2012 10:43:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Dartmouth was definitely the right choice. This is especially true if you want the status hat comes with it, which is especially useful if you want to become an academic, btw. The people telling you otherwise are just jealous.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/4/2012 10:06:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/3/2012 10:43:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Dartmouth was definitely the right choice. This is especially true if you want the status hat comes with it, which is especially useful if you want to become an academic, btw. The people telling you otherwise are just jealous.

He specifically said that his sister wanted to go to medical school, not become an academic, so your point is pretty useless. He explained that Rutgers offered a direct route to medical school in just 2 years, without her having to take the MCAT. Please tell me how choosing Dartmouth was the better choice when the end result would have been the same- med school- except Dartmouth would have offered more grueling undergraduate courses, required a lot more time and effort, and a sh!t ton more money. I would love to hear your explanation on this cost-benefit analysis.
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Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/4/2012 10:08:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/4/2012 10:06:52 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/3/2012 10:43:44 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Dartmouth was definitely the right choice. This is especially true if you want the status hat comes with it, which is especially useful if you want to become an academic, btw. The people telling you otherwise are just jealous.

He specifically said that his sister wanted to go to medical school, not become an academic, so your point is pretty useless. He explained that Rutgers offered a direct route to medical school in just 2 years, without her having to take the MCAT. Please tell me how choosing Dartmouth was the better choice when the end result would have been the same- med school- except Dartmouth would have offered more grueling undergraduate courses, required a lot more time and effort, and a sh!t ton more money. I would love to hear your explanation on this cost-benefit analysis.

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THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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5/4/2012 11:13:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The difference between ivy league and another college say Penn state uni. park or duquesne is well not much. Its the name, the price, and the acceptance rate. I have a friend he got accepted to duquesne and Yale. Offered a full scholarship to duquesne nothing for Yale. He chose duquesne. Do you want to know his rationale? I really want to go to Yale; but, I can get just as good an education at duquesne and not have to pay $50,000 a year. His major: theoretical mathematics (at least I think this it...I know it's something math based). This guys not dumb, he's a genius. He came into high school knowing calculus...
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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5/5/2012 12:11:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"I live in Jersey and Rutgers has cred."

BWAAAAAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAAA
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
quarterexchange
Posts: 1,549
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5/28/2012 6:30:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

It sounds like your sister made a mistake, assuming that she wanted to get involved in medicine. She chose a name over a pretty guaranteed career path. And it's not as if Rutgers is a bad school. What is she doing now since she's graduated from Dartmouth?
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/28/2012 6:43:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 6:30:05 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

It sounds like your sister made a mistake, assuming that she wanted to get involved in medicine. She chose a name over a pretty guaranteed career path. And it's not as if Rutgers is a bad school. What is she doing now since she's graduated from Dartmouth?

She went to Rutgers Business School for her Masters
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/28/2012 6:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 6:43:05 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 5/28/2012 6:30:05 PM, quarterexchange wrote:
At 3/25/2012 6:38:53 PM, 000ike wrote:
My sister got accepted to Dartmouth and Rutgers 6 years ago. Rutgers was offering a full scholarship AND free money upon graduation, and then a direct route to medical school through only 2 years of pre-med, and she would get to skip the MCAT. .....but Dartmouth was an Ivy. So, she went to and graduated from Dartmouth University with student debt and all that.

It sounds like your sister made a mistake, assuming that she wanted to get involved in medicine. She chose a name over a pretty guaranteed career path. And it's not as if Rutgers is a bad school. What is she doing now since she's graduated from Dartmouth?

She went to Rutgers Business School for her Masters

I'd say prestige matters as well as how much college affects your income.
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RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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5/28/2012 10:48:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think Rutgers would have been the better choice. I doubt Dartmouth was much more difficult or much better. Dartmouth is more prestigious, which is perhaps some help in getting a job.

The problem is that you have to pick a school when you are too young to have had all the info and experience needed to make the best choice. Twenty years later you'll have a good idea of what you should have done.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/28/2012 10:52:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 10:48:09 PM, RoyLatham wrote:

The problem is that you have to pick a school when you are too young to have had all the info and experience needed to make the best choice. Twenty years later you'll have a good idea of what you should have done.

Isn't that the truth.