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Homeschooling

Lifeisgood
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7/27/2009 5:29:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This is a thread on the general topic of homeschooling. Post any thoughts, feelings, opinions, and such here.

For discussion:

Should homeschooling remain legal?
Should there be greater restrictions on homeschooling?
Who is the better teacher: parents or public schools?
When should homeschooling not be allowed?
Should the government have a say in how parents teach their children?

I expect this will quickly become a hot topic. All opinions welcome.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/27/2009 6:20:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/27/2009 5:29:12 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
For discussion:

Should homeschooling remain legal?

Of course. A parent has a right to take his or her child out of public school if they wish to. But, I would subject that condition to whether or not the parents can prove they would provide adequate education to their children.

If a parent cannot prove that they would provide similar or greater amount of education and time spent on education to their children that a public or private school could, then it would be in the better interests of the child for them to not be homeschooled.

But, if parents can prove such criteria, either through personally teaching their child or hiring tutors to teach on a regular basis, then there is no need to stop them.

Should there be greater restrictions on homeschooling?

As I said, there should only be restrictions that say "if you cannot provide adequate education to your child, then you cannot have them home schooled."

It is important that children are given the opportunity to receive an adequate education that will prepare them for higher schooling or the workforce. Children have these opportunities through public, private and homeschool education, but if one is not adequate in providing that opportunity, then the child should go to a facility that will give them adequate education.

In terms of what the child should learn... I'm unsure about how to look at this. You don't want children learning to worship Hitler, but how could you control that if the parents decide to teach it? It would be a violation of their rights to free speech, and as long as they provide adequate language, mathematical, social sciences and etc. education, you couldn't touch them.

It is an interesting conundrum.

Who is the better teacher: parents or public schools?

It depends on which abilities you think are more important to a child.

Homeschooling gives children the advantage of having a teacher that focuses directly on them. Students at public and private schools don't have that advantage, unless they're apart of a special program. So, depending upon the ability of the homeschool teacher/tutor, I would say that the quality of education is probably higher than it would be in public or private schools.

But, there is some things that homeschooling can't teach a child that public and private schools would. One of the main things is social interactions, and according to this study, "... Fifty-one percent of the pediatricians surveyed, felt that home schooled children were less mature/sophisticated than their peers, 40% felt home-schooled children were equal to their peers, and 9% felt that home-schooled children were more mature/sophisticated than their peers (Klugewicz, 1999)." (http://murphylibrary.uwlax.edu...)

Personally, I believe social skills are really needed to survive and become successful in the world. But it depends on how you want to teach your child, or even what your plan is. Do you want to them to have knowledge over social interaction, or do you plan on homeschooling while young, and letting them into public/private school later? It all depends on what you want to do.

When should homeschooling not be allowed?

As I said, when the homeschool education does not meet the bottom standards of public/private education, and is not adequate in its ability to teach the child.

Should the government have a say in how parents teach their children?

Hmm. As I said, it is tricky. I think the government should at the very least make sure these homeschool students are getting adequate education, ie., having standard knowledge of mathematics, literature, social sciences, and etc. Monitor the child's progress, essentially.

But, it gets tricky when you enter the arena of what these students are being taught.

Should homeschooling have mandated textbooks? No, I don't think so. This would infringe on a parent's right to choose what they teach their children.

Should homeschooling have mandated standards? Yes, I think so, because the students should get the basic standards that are taught to other students - just to keep the playing field a little bit level.

But you have to decide where the line can be drawn. Should a parent have the right to teach their kids to worship Hitler? Should parents be allowed to instill religious teaching in their kids, without letting science have some say as well?

I don't know about questions like that, but I'm more than open to discussion.

But yeah, thats my general opinion.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
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7/28/2009 7:53:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I had expected there to be a lot more controversy on this subject. I mostly agreed with you Volkov. What a pity.

Why has no one else posted anything?
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/28/2009 10:18:34 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm against homeschooling:

1) There are multiple public and private schools available.

2) All credible schools teach what is fact and truth. If parents want to teach there kids BS, its wrong.

Of course, it should remain optional. But the parent should be tested and such.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/28/2009 12:17:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 10:18:34 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I'm against homeschooling:

1) There are multiple public and private schools available.

You'll have to explain why that is reason enough not to have children homeschooled.

2) All credible schools teach what is fact and truth. If parents want to teach there kids BS, its wrong.

As I said, it is good to have a set standard, so children are all taught the same things on a basic level. But, homeschooling has that advantage of parents being able to teach their children what they want, even if it is BS. Take away that ability completely, and you're almost taking away the point.
I-am-a-panda
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7/28/2009 12:27:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 12:17:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/28/2009 10:18:34 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I'm against homeschooling:

1) There are multiple public and private schools available.

You'll have to explain why that is reason enough not to have children homeschooled.

Meaning they can send them to people with qualifications.


2) All credible schools teach what is fact and truth. If parents want to teach there kids BS, its wrong.

As I said, it is good to have a set standard, so children are all taught the same things on a basic level. But, homeschooling has that advantage of parents being able to teach their children what they want, even if it is BS. Take away that ability completely, and you're almost taking away the point.

I advocate a standard being set so Fascists can't create a Hitler Youth. Although you can't make personal beliefs a national law, they can teach their beliefs in their own time whilst allowing their child to get a proper education.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/28/2009 12:49:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 12:27:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I advocate a standard being set so Fascists can't create a Hitler Youth. Although you can't make personal beliefs a national law, they can teach their beliefs in their own time whilst allowing their child to get a proper education.

The problem with that is we'll have to send in monitors to keep watch over what the parents are teaching, almost all the time. "Homeschooling" literally is on their own time, and it becomes a blurred line when free time and teaching time are separate.

What I think you can do is classify different types of education. There is the "standard education," which would include maths, language and basic subjects that are taught in schools; and there is "non-standard education," which would be what the parents or tutors are teaching their children that is not found in the public system. Students only have to pass testing on the "standard education," and pass minimal testing on the "non-standard education," which would give the government an idea of what they're being taught, and whether or not it promotes various illegal things (violence, criminality, etc.).
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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7/28/2009 12:58:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
It falls within the government's proper scope to provide education opportunity.

It falls outside the government's scope to force anyone to accept it.

Some parents may find the education to be immoral, some may find it to be pro-nationalist propaganda, some may find it inadequate (while also not being able to afford private school). Regardless of the reason, there should be no compulsion.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/28/2009 1:00:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 12:49:08 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 7/28/2009 12:27:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I advocate a standard being set so Fascists can't create a Hitler Youth. Although you can't make personal beliefs a national law, they can teach their beliefs in their own time whilst allowing their child to get a proper education.

The problem with that is we'll have to send in monitors to keep watch over what the parents are teaching, almost all the time. "Homeschooling" literally is on their own time, and it becomes a blurred line when free time and teaching time are separate.

The standard I advocate isn't an eye-spy system, but a test parents have to take to be legitimate to actually properly teach their kids.


What I think you can do is classify different types of education. There is the "standard education," which would include maths, language and basic subjects that are taught in schools; and there is "non-standard education," which would be what the parents or tutors are teaching their children that is not found in the public system. Students only have to pass testing on the "standard education," and pass minimal testing on the "non-standard education," which would give the government an idea of what they're being taught, and whether or not it promotes various illegal things (violence, criminality, etc.).

I believe student should be able to specialise their education. So, if their father was a carpenter, taking up Woodwork under his watch would be perfectly acceptable. However, if the child was failing badly, he should be taken to a Public school.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
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7/28/2009 1:32:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This is more like it.

At 7/28/2009 10:18:34 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I'm against homeschooling:

1) There are multiple public and private schools available.

That somehow makes homeschooling bad?

Parents are the best teachers of their children. The children are in an environment where they are taught by those who actually love them. The parent is the only one who knows that child personally.

2) All credible schools teach what is fact and truth.

That is utterly untrue. Public schools are not somehow devoid of falsehood and twisted truth.

If parents want to teach there kids BS, its wrong.

The parents will teach whatever they think their child needs to be taught in order to succeed in the world. And they have a right to do so. It doesn't matter if you think it is BS.

Also, do you really think that public school teachers don't teach any BS whatsoever?

Of course, it should remain optional. But the parent should be tested and such.

The parents do not need to be 'tested' to educate their children. If they believe their child would gain a better education through homeschooling, then that is it.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Volkov
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7/28/2009 2:09:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 1:32:45 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
This is more like it.

Sorry for having an agreeable opinion.

The be honest though, Panda's solutions and ideas are similar to mine and I'm assuming yours. Basic standard, making sure kids have the same opportunities in education etc. He is just a little more strict on what should be taught.
Lifeisgood
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7/28/2009 3:56:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/28/2009 2:09:18 PM, Volkov wrote:
Sorry for having an agreeable opinion.

Don't worry. I'll eventually be able to forgive you.

The be honest though, Panda's solutions and ideas are similar to mine and I'm assuming yours. Basic standard, making sure kids have the same opportunities in education etc. He is just a little more strict on what should be taught.

A fairly accurate analysis.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
I-am-a-panda
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7/29/2009 1:33:42 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I feel I'm less strict on what should be thought. I think the subjects should be completely up to the student. They should have complete control over what they learn.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
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7/29/2009 10:07:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/29/2009 1:33:42 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I feel I'm less strict on what should be thought. I think the subjects should be completely up to the student. They should have complete control over what they learn.

The problem with that I find is that students rarely know what they need or want, at least not until they're much older, by when homeschooling is rarely carried on til anyways.

You can allow a student some flexibility as to which courses they should take based on their abilities in certain courses - but letting them choose is a different matter.
haley.debate20
Posts: 37
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8/4/2009 7:43:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Should home schooling remain legal?
Should there be greater restrictions on home schooling?
Who is the better teacher: parents or public schools?
When should home schooling not be allowed?
Should the government have a say in how parents teach their children?

--I agree that home schooling should remain legal. If it is easier for the student to understand then that's great. As long as they can absorb the knowledge and use it wisely. Some children just can't handle public or private schooling because it doesn't transmit into their mind the same. This is also a good idea for persons that suffer from mental sickness.

-- I think that they should be maintained and kept at the same level of learning that public schools are. Just because they are at home, doesn't mean they should lack in any department.

--I think that depending on the person, parents can be better teachers. The student would know that there is no slacking off, because after all the parent will know everything they do. Also it allows them to teach the information in a way that they know the student will understand. A teacher, on the other hand, can't alter the guidelines for one student when she is teaching 25 other students who may not learn the same way.

-- If the parents cannot maintain the rules given to them, they shouldn't teach. I think before they begin home schooling they (student and teacher(s)) take an education test and a psych test. Just to ensure that home schooling would be a good choice.

--Just like a teacher has set rules and guidelines, so should a parent. Children need to maintain a healthy relationship with education or they are never going to want to learn more. I had a very close friend who ( I know this sounds silly) but was abused by education. Her teacher pushed and pushed her until she couldn't handle it. After that she dropped out.

These are just my opinions, but I think they are good points also.
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."