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Cheating Policy

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/28/2012 5:34:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

Disagree. I don't think there is a "correct" way to measure how strict or lenient a punishment can be, because of course it depends on the values of society.
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Erik_Boonprakong-Kitching
Posts: 3
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6/1/2012 4:15:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have to say, I am currently sitting a lot of exams, and I agree with the cheating system. It's simple, don't cheat. It is warned about so much that you are completely at fault if you cheat. If you get caught cheating, you get disqualified from all the classes from that exam board. I suppose that this is because if you cheated on this test, you could have cheated on the other tests, except you didn't get caught. I think it deserves to go on your record for applying to collages because if you are dishonest enough to cheat, then some collages, rightfully, will give the place to someone more deserving.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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6/1/2012 4:48:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

What do you mean, he hurts nobody? He hurts everybody who didn't cheat. They no longer have better scores than he does. It's a zero-sum game.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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6/2/2012 6:34:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/1/2012 4:48:33 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

What do you mean, he hurts nobody? He hurts everybody who didn't cheat. They no longer have better scores than he does. It's a zero-sum game.

This is only true if the class is graded on a curve and people are competing for grades.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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6/2/2012 6:55:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/1/2012 4:15:19 PM, Erik_Boonprakong-Kitching wrote:
I have to say, I am currently sitting a lot of exams, and I agree with the cheating system. It's simple, don't cheat. It is warned about so much that you are completely at fault if you cheat. If you get caught cheating, you get disqualified from all the classes from that exam board. I suppose that this is because if you cheated on this test, you could have cheated on the other tests, except you didn't get caught. I think it deserves to go on your record for applying to collages because if you are dishonest enough to cheat, then some collages, rightfully, will give the place to someone more deserving.

I agree.
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quarterexchange
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6/2/2012 8:00:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 6:34:02 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
This is only true if the class is graded on a curve and people are competing for grades.

No. Let's say half the class got a C on a test, and other half got a B. Let's say a C student cheated to get a B or an A. He is more academically competitive than the other students who got Cs and Bs.
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tulle
Posts: 4,445
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6/2/2012 8:29:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with strict academic dishonesty policies. Schools enforce them to maintain academic integrity. You're looking at this on a really small scale. It affects the school on a huge scale. If they're exposed as supporting academic dishonesty, the less likely people are going to respect the school and enroll there, therefore less $$$. For universities, the less likely they're going to receive funding for research.
yang.
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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6/2/2012 8:30:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 8:29:19 AM, tulle wrote:
I agree with strict academic dishonesty policies. Schools enforce them to maintain academic integrity. You're looking at this on a really small scale. It affects the school on a huge scale. If they're exposed as supporting academic dishonesty, the less likely people are going to respect the school and enroll there, therefore less $$$. For universities, the less likely they're going to receive funding for research.

And you might say "well that's university" but that's basically what elementary school and secondary school are---preparing you for postsecondary. People who develop cheating habits early on aren't just going to become academically honest once they hit university, especially if they got in based on cheating their way through things.
yang.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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6/4/2012 10:26:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This again? This has got to be the 3rd cheating thread I've seen from you, ike. Just tell us how you got caught and we'll give you some pointers.
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bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/4/2012 10:41:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 10:26:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
This again? This has got to be the 3rd cheating thread I've seen from you, ike. Just tell us how you got caught and we'll give you some pointers.

lol
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OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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6/4/2012 11:09:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why do you constantly need to seem to see the offenders of something as the victims?

I think that if you've cheated FOUR times, after failing a test, class, and having it put on your personal record, then you have no right to a scholarship, for who knows how you got the grades to get that scholarship?

Basically, you've lost the privilege, not the right, to getting a scholarship.
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socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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6/4/2012 11:19:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I like cheating. Easier than doing the work really. Who wants to actually learn Algebra?
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bossyburrito
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6/4/2012 11:21:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:19:47 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I like cheating. Easier than doing the work really. Who wants to actually learn Algebra?

I know right? That stuff will neverrrrrrrrrr be helpful later.
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twocupcakes
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6/5/2012 9:35:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

Cheating should be taken very seriously. Students are all competing with each other for admissions, jobs, internships, ect. Academic integrity is extremely important to uphold and harsh punishment is necessary. It is better a student learn his lesson sooner then later. The 2008 financial crisis was caused by unethical business practices (cheating). Cheating is immoral, unethical, and unfair and deserves harsh punishment. Just don't cheat. If you need to cheat, you are not worthy of our academic achievements.

What kind of cheating are you talking about? Some kinds of cheating is not as bad. For example, intentionally bringing in answers to a test (very harsh punishment needed). Intentional plagiarizing a paper is bad. However, unintentional plagiarizing is not that bad.

Imagine a kid that worked hard never cheats and he did not get into the school he wanted to because that place was taken my a kid that cheated to get better grades. It is extremely important to protect the students that don't cheat.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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6/5/2012 4:47:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/2/2012 6:34:02 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 6/1/2012 4:48:33 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

What do you mean, he hurts nobody? He hurts everybody who didn't cheat. They no longer have better scores than he does. It's a zero-sum game.

This is only true if the class is graded on a curve and people are competing for grades.

The purpose of college grades would be to distinguish yourself from others. If everybody could reach the same level of accomplishment with minimal value, it is worth less. What if everybody was given a college degree?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/5/2012 5:00:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 10:26:48 PM, Maikuru wrote:
This again? This has got to be the 3rd cheating thread I've seen from you, ike. Just tell us how you got caught and we'll give you some pointers.

I don't cheat on anything, and I don't have sympathy for people who do.

The Board of Education just tends to piss me off like Obama and Bush piss off Libertarians.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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6/5/2012 5:04:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 4:47:23 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 6/2/2012 6:34:02 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 6/1/2012 4:48:33 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 5/28/2012 5:15:13 PM, 000ike wrote:
The policy for cheating in public school and college is: 1. failing the test (good) 2. failing the class (questionable) 3. having the incident recorded for colleges you apply to, to see (excessive) 4. blocking scholarships (ridiculous) etc. Generally it's designed to destroy the student's educational future.

I liken this to giving the death penalty for stealing a cookie. Cheating is first and foremost a petty and trivial crime, so it should be treated as such. A crime is measured by the degree of harm it causes on the victim, and the punishment is thus duly proportionate. Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 13-year-old has a history textbook open during a test? Who is the victim and how hurt is he when a 17-year-old texts on a quiz? Virtually no one.

I think cheating is extremely dishonest and unfair to those who actually work hard, but the extent of the crime should be to fail the test and maybe the class. Sometimes I feel like the Board of Ed. lusts for power and concocts dimwitted and inappropriate consequences to fill the void. I just can't understand the thinking and reckless abandon it takes to punish so harshly a child that probably lacked the growth and maturity to fully reason out the situation.

thoughts?

What do you mean, he hurts nobody? He hurts everybody who didn't cheat. They no longer have better scores than he does. It's a zero-sum game.

This is only true if the class is graded on a curve and people are competing for grades.

The purpose of college grades would be to distinguish yourself from others. If everybody could reach the same level of accomplishment with minimal value, it is worth less. What if everybody was given a college degree?

No, the purpose of college grades is to prove that you have been educated in the subject. Being educated does not mean that other people are not educated.

It would be great for everyone to have college degrees. If you don't think so, don't get one.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/5/2012 5:10:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's the point of going to school if you're just going to cheat? Might as well do something else you enjoy more, and lie on your resume. Cheating in life is actually about as difficult as cheating in school, all things considered.

If you're going to play the game called "education," you should actually do it, rather than pretend to do it and call yourself educated. That's called pretentiousness, lol.
16kadams
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6/5/2012 5:12:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Punishment has 3 values

Retribution, the most important.

Correction.

Detterence.

Retribution for cheating I think failing the test and putting it on the record are good, it would also serve as a deterent. And then they would notice they screwed up and therefore be corrected.

It fits the 3 needs, though retrubution is always 100% needed and the other two are interchangible or not needed.
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16kadams
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6/5/2012 5:13:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:21:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:19:47 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I like cheating. Easier than doing the work really. Who wants to actually learn Algebra?

I know right? That stuff will neverrrrrrrrrr be helpful later.

Thank god, I hate it.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/5/2012 5:20:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 5:10:53 PM, Ren wrote:
What's the point of going to school if you're just going to cheat? Might as well do something else you enjoy more, and lie on your resume. Cheating in life is actually about as difficult as cheating in school, all things considered.

If you're going to play the game called "education," you should actually do it, rather than pretend to do it and call yourself educated. That's called pretentiousness, lol.

what's with all this "You" business? I don't cheat....ever. I spent a whole paragraph emphasizing how stupid it is.

What I hate though is the consequence. It doesn't seem to match up with the crime.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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6/5/2012 5:28:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 5:20:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/5/2012 5:10:53 PM, Ren wrote:
What's the point of going to school if you're just going to cheat? Might as well do something else you enjoy more, and lie on your resume. Cheating in life is actually about as difficult as cheating in school, all things considered.

If you're going to play the game called "education," you should actually do it, rather than pretend to do it and call yourself educated. That's called pretentiousness, lol.

what's with all this "You" business? I don't cheat....ever. I spent a whole paragraph emphasizing how stupid it is.

What I hate though is the consequence. It doesn't seem to match up with the crime.

I believe he's using "you" in lieu of "one."
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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6/6/2012 10:44:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 5:28:06 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 6/5/2012 5:20:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/5/2012 5:10:53 PM, Ren wrote:
What's the point of going to school if you're just going to cheat? Might as well do something else you enjoy more, and lie on your resume. Cheating in life is actually about as difficult as cheating in school, all things considered.

If you're going to play the game called "education," you should actually do it, rather than pretend to do it and call yourself educated. That's called pretentiousness, lol.

what's with all this "You" business? I don't cheat....ever. I spent a whole paragraph emphasizing how stupid it is.

What I hate though is the consequence. It doesn't seem to match up with the crime.

I believe he's using "you" in lieu of "one."

Indeed. I wasn't actually directly addressing... you. xD
Ren
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6/6/2012 10:46:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 5:20:24 PM, 000ike wrote:

What I hate though is the consequence. It doesn't seem to match up with the crime.

Well, I guess I was gently agreeing with it -- if you're not going to play the game, then you're not allowed to pretend as though you're playing the game, because that would be at the expense of those who are playing the game.

The point of cheating is essentially to give yourself a handicap compared to where others are. It's an admission that you're unwilling or incapable of performing at the level of the norm.

Cannot even reach mediocrity.

Why would academia want to have anything to do with that?
Ren
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6/6/2012 10:48:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/6/2012 10:46:19 PM, Ren wrote:
At 6/5/2012 5:20:24 PM, 000ike wrote:

What I hate though is the consequence. It doesn't seem to match up with the crime.

Well, I guess I was gently agreeing with it -- if one isn't going to play the game, then one isn't allowed to pretend as though he or she is playing the game, because that would be at the expense of those who are playing the game.

The point of cheating is essentially to oneself yourself a handicap compared to where others are. It's an admission that one is unwilling or incapable of performing at the level of the norm.

Cannot even reach mediocrity.

Why would academia want to have anything to do with that?

Lol, crap, I did it again.

Sigh. Fixed.

Lol, what a stilted way of writing. >_<
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/6/2012 11:00:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No, the purpose of college grades is to prove that you have been educated in the subject.
For certain scientific or professional degrees yes. For most degrees, no unless you're headed to grad school.
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THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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6/7/2012 1:24:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I like cheating. Easier than doing the work really. Who wants to actually learn Algebra?

I know right? That stuff will neverrrrrrrrrr be helpful later.

Thank god, I hate it.

Actually, it depends on your degree, if you do something that requires mathematics yea, you're going to need it....
Erik_Boonprakong-Kitching
Posts: 3
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6/7/2012 5:50:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 11:21:57 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 6/4/2012 11:19:47 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I like cheating. Easier than doing the work really. Who wants to actually learn Algebra?

I know right? That stuff will neverrrrrrrrrr be helpful later.

Actually, you don't need it, but if you have, even just a basic understanding of it, it can help you in so many numerical situations, you come across these sort of problems in everyday life. It can also be used to express how you would work something out in your head.