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Texas GOP to remove critical thinking

Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 10:10:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Critical thinking is acquired, not taught, bud.

Also, if you don't like it, then go to a private school.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
caveat
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7/12/2012 10:13:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Critical thinking consists of seeing both sides of an issue, being open to new evidence that disconfirms your ideas, reasoning dispassionately, demanding that claims be backed by evidence, deducing and inferring conclusions from available facts, solving problems, and so forth.

Every example of critical thinking above can be taught.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 10:18:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 10:13:58 AM, caveat wrote:
Critical thinking consists of seeing both sides of an issue, being open to new evidence that disconfirms your ideas, reasoning dispassionately, demanding that claims be backed by evidence, deducing and inferring conclusions from available facts, solving problems, and so forth.

Every example of critical thinking above can be taught.

If you are a good student, all of these things come naturally. The only thing that might be learned is a skeptic manner but interactions with the outer world more than suffices.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Frederick53
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7/12/2012 2:02:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
They spend the entire list lamenting the bias in schools and then suddenly proclaim that students should be instilled with judeo-Christian values.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Aaronroy
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7/12/2012 3:26:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 10:10:46 AM, Lordknukle wrote:
Critical thinking is acquired, not taught, bud.

What absurd conjecture. Critical thinking is acquired from scholarly discussion within the classroom environment. Mind you that critical thinking is a grading criteria for the English SAT written essay. That said, Texas scores 49th for verbal SAT scores in the nation. This lack of importance regarding the teaching of critical thinking methodology and its uses thereof and their SAT essay scores are directly related.
Also, if you don't like it, then go to a private school.

Hm. So this is the resolve regarding the right and their views of public education. I'm hoping you're not part of the "education has no real-world application!" crowd.

They do not want critical thinking taught because they do not want students thinking for themselves. They specifically state they are removing it due to not wanting to undermine students' "fixed beliefs" (which is crap rhetoric due to beliefs are always subject to change) and 'parental authority' (which is also just another advancement of the family values crowd trying to extend their fascist crap. There exists no external authority over an individual's thought process)

The notion that you support their assault on public education is atrocious.
turn down for h'what
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 3:38:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I support the complete privatization of all schools.

By the way, your own article evens portrays the skepticism that critical thinking may not necessarily be able to be taught. You never answered this argument, but instead went on with Ad Hominems and statistics that at best are a cause-causality fallacy and at worst, irrelevant.

Basically, the actual ability of critical thinking cannot be taught, but the material for it can- which the specific GOP lawmakers are not attempting to disregard (http://perfectscoreproject.com...).

Furthermore, even if you assume that this is bad, need I remind you that this is not an accurate portrayal of all the GOP lawmakers and supporters?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 3:41:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 3:39:56 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I don't support privatization of schools. Education should be available to all students, and not just to the elite males.

Aren't you an anarchist?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Frederick53
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7/12/2012 3:49:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 3:38:24 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I support the complete privatization of all schools.

By the way, your own article evens portrays the skepticism that critical thinking may not necessarily be able to be taught. You never answered this argument, but instead went on with Ad Hominems and statistics that at best are a cause-causality fallacy and at worst, irrelevant.

Basically, the actual ability of critical thinking cannot be taught, but the material for it can- which the specific GOP lawmakers are not attempting to disregard (http://perfectscoreproject.com...).

Furthermore, even if you assume that this is bad, need I remind you that this is not an accurate portrayal of all the GOP lawmakers and supporters?

You do realize that once you privatize education, you are instantly condemning millions of children to a life of poverty. If you are born poor, then you won't have enough money to buy a good education, and the richer you are born, the better your education will be. I shouldn't even have to explain what happens from there.

How can you possibly expect such a system to result in anything but an extremely volatile, unstable society split down the middle between the uneducated underclass and the educated elite?
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 5:47:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol. I don't think you understand basic economics, Fredrick. When a new market is opened up, there are various niches to be filled within that market. Take the clothing market for example; there are many different brands for many people of higher and lower income levels. There is no reason to believe that slightly different markets won't open up for various levels of income in education. It's called smart business. A privatized education market discriminates against the poor in the same way that any other market would discriminate against the poor- nonexistently.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Apollo.11
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7/12/2012 5:49:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yep.
That's our wonderful Republican Party...

It's understandable really; if they aren't capable of critical thinking, no one should be.
Sapere Aude!
Frederick53
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7/12/2012 6:23:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 5:47:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol. I don't think you understand basic economics, Fredrick. When a new market is opened up, there are various niches to be filled within that market. Take the clothing market for example; there are many different brands for many people of higher and lower income levels. There is no reason to believe that slightly different markets won't open up for various levels of income in education. It's called smart business. A privatized education market discriminates against the poor in the same way that any other market would discriminate against the poor- nonexistently.

Education is different from clothing. If I can't afford I nice tuxedo, it doesn't interfere with my ability to get a job.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 6:33:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 6:23:18 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/12/2012 5:47:23 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol. I don't think you understand basic economics, Fredrick. When a new market is opened up, there are various niches to be filled within that market. Take the clothing market for example; there are many different brands for many people of higher and lower income levels. There is no reason to believe that slightly different markets won't open up for various levels of income in education. It's called smart business. A privatized education market discriminates against the poor in the same way that any other market would discriminate against the poor- nonexistently.

Education is different from clothing. If I can't afford I nice tuxedo, it doesn't interfere with my ability to get a job.

My whole point, backed up by empirical evince in other sectors, is that niches will be created for different demanders- poor or rich. Nobody will go without an education. However, the system will be much more parent-student oriented and lacking massive bureaucracies, as well as teacher's unions with governmental power.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 6:35:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyways, this notion that education is critical to success is bull- though it does definitely help. Some of the most successful people in the world were either lacking a proper education or self-educated.

Motivation matters a hell lot more than education.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
bossyburrito
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7/12/2012 6:37:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 3:41:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 3:39:56 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I don't support privatization of schools. Education should be available to all students, and not just to the elite males.

Aren't you an anarchist?

AnCom.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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7/12/2012 6:39:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I believe that everything should be public.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 6:41:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 6:37:55 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 7/12/2012 3:41:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 3:39:56 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I don't support privatization of schools. Education should be available to all students, and not just to the elite males.

Aren't you an anarchist?

AnCom.

Her response struck me as very Statist-y; though I can see it from an AnCom perspective.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Frederick53
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7/12/2012 6:53:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 6:35:53 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Anyways, this notion that education is critical to success is bull- though it does definitely help. Some of the most successful people in the world were either lacking a proper education or self-educated.

Motivation matters a hell lot more than education.

If only that all were true, and I could just drop out of school and channel all of my determination into a $200,000 a year salary.

Not everybody can be an entrepreneur. Not everybody can be self made. And no investment firm is going to higher a kid who's high school education cost his parents $100. Yes, he will be able to find work, but the fact that his education is inferior to that of others in the work force, due to no fault of his own, will relegate him to lower paying jobs. Unless, of course, he invents the best thing since sliced bread and becomes a millionaire. That's not too difficult, right?
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Lordknukle
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7/12/2012 7:01:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 6:53:42 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/12/2012 6:35:53 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Anyways, this notion that education is critical to success is bull- though it does definitely help. Some of the most successful people in the world were either lacking a proper education or self-educated.

Motivation matters a hell lot more than education.

If only that all were true, and I could just drop out of school and channel all of my determination into a $200,000 a year salary.

Not everybody can be an entrepreneur. Not everybody can be self made. And no investment firm is going to higher a kid who's high school education cost his parents $100. Yes, he will be able to find work, but the fact that his education is inferior to that of others in the work force, due to no fault of his own, will relegate him to lower paying jobs. Unless, of course, he invents the best thing since sliced bread and becomes a millionaire. That's not too difficult, right?

Cool. I really don't care.

Got any response to the economic fact that I presented?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Frederick53
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7/12/2012 7:09:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 7:01:15 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 6:53:42 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
At 7/12/2012 6:35:53 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Anyways, this notion that education is critical to success is bull- though it does definitely help. Some of the most successful people in the world were either lacking a proper education or self-educated.

Motivation matters a hell lot more than education.

If only that all were true, and I could just drop out of school and channel all of my determination into a $200,000 a year salary.

Not everybody can be an entrepreneur. Not everybody can be self made. And no investment firm is going to higher a kid who's high school education cost his parents $100. Yes, he will be able to find work, but the fact that his education is inferior to that of others in the work force, due to no fault of his own, will relegate him to lower paying jobs. Unless, of course, he invents the best thing since sliced bread and becomes a millionaire. That's not too difficult, right?

Cool. I really don't care.

Got any response to the economic fact that I presented?

I know you don't care, otherwise you wouldn't support privatization of schools.

What fact, that niches will be filled? Whether or not that makes it all OK hinges on whether people getting the best thing that they can afford is a good thing or a bad thing. If you care about poor people it's a bad thing, and if you don't care about poor people it's a good thing. And that's probably as far as we'll ever get in this argument.
In 1975, the Second Vietnam War began -1Historygenius

Like no wonder that indian dude rejected you.- Darkkermit to royalpaladin

Social Darwinism is a justification- 1Historygenius

Equal opportunity exists, so there is no problem- EvanK
Apollo.11
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7/12/2012 8:18:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In the words of the late Albert Einstein, "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

Republicans continue to prove every day that stupidity has no boundaries.
Sapere Aude!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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7/12/2012 10:36:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lol. So free marketers somehow don't care about the poor, while you collectivist socialists are Messiahs destined for poor people? Talk about biased delivery. Empirical evidence shows that wherever the free market was let operate, the condition of poor people greatly increased. On the other hand, countries that are still stagnating from intellectual and political decay- presiding over economic decay- are the very ones retarding the rise of the private sector.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Aaronroy
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7/13/2012 1:19:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 3:38:24 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
I support the complete privatization of all schools.

Wonderful, you aren't anyone worth listening to now.

By the way, your own article evens portrays the skepticism that critical thinking may not necessarily be able to be taught. You never answered this argument, but instead went on with Ad Hominems and statistics that at best are a cause-causality fallacy and at worst, irrelevant.

One learns critical thinking, it is not taught. Schools actively engage in actives that promote critical thinking. The Texas GOP not only does not want critical thinking to be influenced, they wish it disregarded from students.
Basically, the actual ability of critical thinking cannot be taught, but the material for it can- which the specific GOP lawmakers are not attempting to disregard (http://perfectscoreproject.com...).

Of course they want it disregarded. They believe it undermines parental authority and the fixes beliefs of the students. There position with critical thinking has nothing to do with it's ability to be taught or otherwise they would have specified.
Furthermore, even if you assume that this is bad, need I remind you that this is not an accurate portrayal of all the GOP lawmakers and supporters?

Read the Texas GOP platform. This behavior follows suite with the rest of their dogma.
turn down for h'what
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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7/13/2012 6:53:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 10:36:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Lol. So free marketers somehow don't care about the poor, while you collectivist socialists are Messiahs destined for poor people? Talk about biased delivery. Empirical evidence shows that wherever the free market was let operate, the condition of poor people greatly increased. On the other hand, countries that are still stagnating from intellectual and political decay- presiding over economic decay- are the very ones retarding the rise of the private sector.

Actually, that's bull. The rise of the welfare state was what reduced poverty, and not the free markets that existed prior to the welfare state.

Kentyworth and Bradley compiled this data:

CountryAbsolute poverty rate (1960–1991)
(threshold set at 40% of U.S. median household income)[3]Relative poverty rate

(1970–1997)[4]
Pre-welfare Post-welfare Pre-welfare Post-welfare
Australia 23.3 11.9 16.2 9.2
Belgium 26.8 6.0 19.5 4.1
Canada 22.5 6.5 17.1 11.9
Denmark 26.4 5.9 17.4 4.8
Finland 11.9 3.7 12.4 3.1
France 36.1 9.8 21.8 6.1
Germany 15.2 4.3 9.7 5.1
Italy 30.7 14.3 19.7 9.1
Netherlands 22.1 7.3 18.5 11.5
Norway 9.2 1.7 12.4 4.0
Sweden 23.7 5.8 14.8 4.8
Switzerland 12.5 3.8 10.9 9.1
United Kingdom 16.8 8.7 16.4 8.2
United States 21.0 11.7 17.2 15.1

Unadulterated free markets fail to promote meritocracy and development (in Amartya Sen's sense and not in your sense) because nepotism and incompetence permit those with power to hire some competent people to work under them.
royalpaladin
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7/13/2012 6:55:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 3:41:36 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/12/2012 3:39:56 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I don't support privatization of schools. Education should be available to all students, and not just to the elite males.

Aren't you an anarchist?

I support community schools/free education provided by the community (which would be done under AnCom systems). I don't support the state, but that doesn't mean that I have to condemn everything that the state does.
royalpaladin
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7/13/2012 6:56:23 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/12/2012 6:35:53 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Anyways, this notion that education is critical to success is bull- though it does definitely help. Some of the most successful people in the world were either lacking a proper education or self-educated.

It was easier to succeed in the past without education because employers cared about substance rather than about flashy degrees.
Motivation matters a hell lot more than education.
royalpaladin
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7/13/2012 7:37:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/13/2012 7:16:01 AM, FourTrouble wrote:
This sounds like a good thing to me. I don't think anyone even knows what critical thinking actually is.

LOL, you think it's good that students are going to be prevented from thinking logically in order to form their own conclusions?
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/13/2012 8:11:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: that is really scary. That is the most important thing you could learn. If you you were forced to only learn one thing from school that is IT. Because that effects everything else you will every learn.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL