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ACLU sues Michigan over low literacy

innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/9/2012 2:55:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.globalpost.com...

Personally I think it would be far more effective to sue the teacher's union in that city. It is important to know that the per pupil spend in this particular school district is the highest in the state.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/9/2012 9:06:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 3:03:37 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is that serious thing you can be sued over?

Hey, This is Americka!
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/9/2012 9:23:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:06:29 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/9/2012 3:03:37 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is that serious thing you can be sued over?

Hey, This is Americka!

no, in america you can sue the pants off private companies. However, governments can't be sued so easily (the federal government actually CAN'T be sued. Not unless the Fed lets themselves be sued, which they won't).
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 9:29:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:23:42 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2012 9:06:29 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/9/2012 3:03:37 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Is that serious thing you can be sued over?

Hey, This is Americka!

no, in america you can sue the pants off private companies. However, governments can't be sued so easily (the federal government actually CAN'T be sued. Not unless the Fed lets themselves be sued, which they won't).

I bet that I could provide an instance in which the Federal government permitted itself to be sued.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 9:30:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 2:55:18 PM, innomen wrote:
http://www.globalpost.com...

Personally I think it would be far more effective to sue the teacher's union in that city. It is important to know that the per pupil spend in this particular school district is the highest in the state.


You're kidding, right? This is the description of the school:

The lawsuit also argues that the district"s substandard school buildings " described as having filthy bathrooms, leaky ceilings, and inadequate heating " as well as a lack of books and little effort to track student performance have impeded students" academic progress, the Detroit News reported.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 9:31:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Innomen, did you read the article properly? The ACLU is not suing the district because the students are not literate; it is suing the district for failing to provide the additional instruction that it is mandated to provide by law.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/9/2012 9:37:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 9:31:15 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Innomen, did you read the article properly? The ACLU is not suing the district because the students are not literate; it is suing the district for failing to provide the additional instruction that it is mandated to provide by law.

It looked like both. That is a rough area of the state though, that needs major improvements when it comes to education (as the ACLU has shown).
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 10:58:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

Maybe the obvious problem is that the school isn't focusing on using its resources for the students.
http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

Here's some actual data on teacher salaries (not from your biased blog)
http://www.teacherportal.com...

They make less than 1/3 of your suggestions.

I would like sources on the blog's data.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/9/2012 11:01:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Quite frankly, it's disgusting that some people would lie about the salaries that teachers make. They must derive sadistic pleasure from watching people get pay cuts after they fabricate data that indicates that they earn three times the amount they actually do.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/9/2012 11:27:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

I know plenty of teachers, many of them make probably make less than half of that. Chicago is what we call "an outlier".
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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10/9/2012 11:41:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:27:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

I know plenty of teachers, many of them make probably make less than half of that. Chicago is what we call "an outlier".

My history teacher brought up an interesting point about that when he said that there are many parts of Chicago they could not "pay me enough" to teach in. I guess you kind of have to pay your teachers a high salary if the work is so God awful like it almost certainly is in some of those inner city hell holes
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/9/2012 11:46:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:41:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:27:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

I know plenty of teachers, many of them make probably make less than half of that. Chicago is what we call "an outlier".

My history teacher brought up an interesting point about that when he said that there are many parts of Chicago they could not "pay me enough" to teach in. I guess you kind of have to pay your teachers a high salary if the work is so God awful like it almost certainly is in some of those inner city hell holes

Yes, I suppose there is a huge discipline problem to overcome. But come on, with those student's results do you really think the teachers deserve that high of a salary?
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/10/2012 6:13:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:46:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:41:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:27:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

I know plenty of teachers, many of them make probably make less than half of that. Chicago is what we call "an outlier".

My history teacher brought up an interesting point about that when he said that there are many parts of Chicago they could not "pay me enough" to teach in. I guess you kind of have to pay your teachers a high salary if the work is so God awful like it almost certainly is in some of those inner city hell holes

Yes, I suppose there is a huge discipline problem to overcome. But come on, with those student's results do you really think the teachers deserve that high of a salary?

You do realize that the school in question is in Michigan, correct?
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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10/10/2012 5:37:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 11:46:27 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:41:43 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 10/9/2012 11:27:08 PM, Contra wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:11:59 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Well the obvious problem is that the teachers aren't getting enough money. Give them more money, and the teacher quality will improve:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com...

If they just raised the average teacher salary. I mean come on, it looks like less than half of them are making 6 figures salaries. How can you concentrate on teaching when you can't pay your bills at $112,000.

I know plenty of teachers, many of them make probably make less than half of that. Chicago is what we call "an outlier".

My history teacher brought up an interesting point about that when he said that there are many parts of Chicago they could not "pay me enough" to teach in. I guess you kind of have to pay your teachers a high salary if the work is so God awful like it almost certainly is in some of those inner city hell holes

Yes, I suppose there is a huge discipline problem to overcome. But come on, with those student's results do you really think the teachers deserve that high of a salary?

Most inner city teachers in Michigan make around a third of the amount you just spoke of or less.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Tom_Simkins
Posts: 2
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10/22/2012 10:01:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The thing that caught my eye is this:
"district"s substandard school buildings " described as having filthy bathrooms, leaky ceilings, and inadequate heating " as well as a lack of books"
It seems to me that the school district is low on funds as it is. How can they spend money on new buildings or better teachers if they don't have the funds? Highland Park is a town literally surrounded by Detroit, so I know that they cannot raise taxes.
While it was nice for the ACLU to bring this issue to attention, they don't need to sue for it.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/22/2012 10:12:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 10:01:12 PM, Tom_Simkins wrote:
The thing that caught my eye is this:
"district"s substandard school buildings " described as having filthy bathrooms, leaky ceilings, and inadequate heating " as well as a lack of books"
It seems to me that the school district is low on funds as it is. How can they spend money on new buildings or better teachers if they don't have the funds? Highland Park is a town literally surrounded by Detroit, so I know that they cannot raise taxes.
While it was nice for the ACLU to bring this issue to attention, they don't need to sue for it.

Most of their funding comes from the state, not local government:

http://misfbreakfast.pbworks.com...
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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10/22/2012 10:17:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 2:55:18 PM, innomen wrote:
http://www.globalpost.com...

Personally I think it would be far more effective to sue the teacher's union in that city. It is important to know that the per pupil spend in this particular school district is the highest in the state.

Question... did they win? Was it even taken to court?
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