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France to ban homework

innomen
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10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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10/22/2012 3:00:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

I really hope im not the only leftist/liberal on here who thinks that the french president is a dumba** for proposing something like this....
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innomen
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10/22/2012 3:07:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:00:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

I really hope im not the only leftist/liberal on here who thinks that the french president is a dumba** for proposing something like this....

How about his other policies, like 75% tax rate on the rich? Net result, wealth leaves France: http://caps.fool.com...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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10/22/2012 3:15:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:00:49 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

I really hope im not the only leftist/liberal on here who thinks that the french president is a dumba** for proposing something like this....

I think it's a draconian policy, but would only politely disagree.

for a liberal, Imabench, you doth protest too much, and you doth protest too vigorously........
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/22/2012 3:16:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Homework is actually more in line with socialism than relying on students to have access to outside resources (like tutors and books) to prepare for classes because it gives an equal baseline of practice through which students can absorb the material. Nice attempt to take credit for socialist policies and label them "capitalist".
Logic_on_rails
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10/22/2012 3:18:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I actually have the idea that homework ought to be banned, but we ought to keep assignments.

The idea isn't actually horrible, and works off some interesting ideas. For instance, how about making the school day 9-5 and eliminating homework at the same time? That sound fair?

I can go into a long exposition of my views on education (different test marking scheme, altered school hours, altered curriculum etc.) , but I'll only do that upon request.
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darkkermit
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10/22/2012 3:24:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:16:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Homework is actually more in line with socialism than relying on students to have access to outside resources (like tutors and books) to prepare for classes because it gives an equal baseline of practice through which students can absorb the material. Nice attempt to take credit for socialist policies and label them "capitalist".

Please show where Innomen labeled it "capitalism".
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royalpaladin
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10/22/2012 3:26:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:24:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:16:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Homework is actually more in line with socialism than relying on students to have access to outside resources (like tutors and books) to prepare for classes because it gives an equal baseline of practice through which students can absorb the material. Nice attempt to take credit for socialist policies and label them "capitalist".

Please show where Innomen labeled it "capitalism".

He strongly implied that it was. His argument was that stripping homework from schools pushes towards egalitarianism and thus strives for a socialist agenda of mediocrity.
darkkermit
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10/22/2012 3:28:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:18:20 PM, Logic_on_rails wrote:
I actually have the idea that homework ought to be banned, but we ought to keep assignments.

The idea isn't actually horrible, and works off some interesting ideas. For instance, how about making the school day 9-5 and eliminating homework at the same time? That sound fair?

I can go into a long exposition of my views on education (different test marking scheme, altered school hours, altered curriculum etc.) , but I'll only do that upon request.

Wouldn't that effectively eliminate outdoor sports though?
Open borders debate:
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/22/2012 3:28:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Your critique of the homework is more of the nature of the homework, rather than the actual concept of homework itself. Increasing the number of hours in class seems to be silly, and will have a diminishing return on the student. If two kids have a spelling test, and one has parents that are less helpful, then such is life. Why is it so damn important to make it "fair" by reducing the challenge to the students that are up for it? Individual acheivement is not dependent on the circumstances of those with different individual circumstances. If we want an individual to become the absolute best he or she can, they must be challenged appropriately.

It is a foolish and demented to drag down the individual to the lowest denominator in their class, rather than providing an atmosphere that allows them to excel to their potential.
darkkermit
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10/22/2012 3:30:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:26:54 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:24:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:16:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Homework is actually more in line with socialism than relying on students to have access to outside resources (like tutors and books) to prepare for classes because it gives an equal baseline of practice through which students can absorb the material. Nice attempt to take credit for socialist policies and label them "capitalist".

Please show where Innomen labeled it "capitalism".

He strongly implied that it was. His argument was that stripping homework from schools pushes towards egalitarianism and thus strives for a socialist agenda of mediocrity.

socialism =/= egalitarianism
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/22/2012 3:35:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:28:34 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Your critique of the homework is more of the nature of the homework, rather than the actual concept of homework itself. Increasing the number of hours in class seems to be silly, and will have a diminishing return on the student.
What is this based on? How is increasing the quality and length of classroom instruction detrimental to students?
If two kids have a spelling test, and one has parents that are less helpful, then such is life. Why is it so damn important to make it "fair" by reducing the challenge to the students that are up for it?
That's not the problem that this ban is addressing. The problem that it's addressing is the fact that teachers are depending on parents to teach their children and styling it as homework. I've seen it happen in my elementary school. My siblings went through this.

Notice that anybody is free to work at home regardless of the ban. Just because homework does not exist does not mean that parents still cannot aid their students while they study for the exam or that hard-working students cannot do extra problems. My organic chemistry class does not have mandatory homework, and I do extra problems from a variety of different sources that the teacher has not provided us with. Similarly, parents can still aid their children in studying for classroom exams.
Individual acheivement is not dependent on the circumstances of those with different individual circumstances. If we want an individual to become the absolute best he or she can, they must be challenged appropriately.

Explain how making them rely on their parents to teach them concepts that should be taught in the classroom challenges them appropriately.
It is a foolish and demented to drag down the individual to the lowest denominator in their class, rather than providing an atmosphere that allows them to excel to their potential.

Nobody is being dragged down. See above. Anybody can do extra work outside of class.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/22/2012 3:54:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:35:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:28:34 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Your critique of the homework is more of the nature of the homework, rather than the actual concept of homework itself. Increasing the number of hours in class seems to be silly, and will have a diminishing return on the student.
What is this based on? How is increasing the quality and length of classroom instruction detrimental to students?

Quality is fine, but as I said, longer hours in school will have a diminishing effect on the student, and there is some merit in allowing the student to manage his or her time outside the classroom.

If two kids have a spelling test, and one has parents that are less helpful, then such is life. Why is it so damn important to make it "fair" by reducing the challenge to the students that are up for it?
That's not the problem that this ban is addressing. The problem that it's addressing is the fact that teachers are depending on parents to teach their children and styling it as homework. I've seen it happen in my elementary school. My siblings went through this.

That again points to the nature of the work. I never had help from parent, because it was doable work. This points to the nature of the work that's being expected rather than the concept of homework itself. If your siblings were left to their own devices they wouldn't have been able to do the work? If so the work is inappropriate, but you shouldn't discard the concept of homework because of inappropriate assignments.

Notice that anybody is free to work at home regardless of the ban. Just because homework does not exist does not mean that parents still cannot aid their students while they study for the exam or that hard-working students cannot do extra problems. My organic chemistry class does not have mandatory homework, and I do extra problems from a variety of different sources that the teacher has not provided us with. Similarly, parents can still aid their children in studying for classroom exams.
Individual acheivement is not dependent on the circumstances of those with different individual circumstances. If we want an individual to become the absolute best he or she can, they must be challenged appropriately.

Explain how making them rely on their parents to teach them concepts that should be taught in the classroom challenges them appropriately.

I'm not defending a specific assignment, but rather the merit in homework, as outside projects that can be done to supplement the classroom work. By limiting the curriculum to a classroom experience, you have cut the curriculum.

It is a foolish and demented to drag down the individual to the lowest denominator in their class, rather than providing an atmosphere that allows them to excel to their potential.

Nobody is being dragged down. See above. Anybody can do extra work outside of class.

Yeah, like anyone can pay extra taxes, no person ever does that.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/22/2012 4:03:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:54:44 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:35:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:28:34 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Your critique of the homework is more of the nature of the homework, rather than the actual concept of homework itself. Increasing the number of hours in class seems to be silly, and will have a diminishing return on the student.
What is this based on? How is increasing the quality and length of classroom instruction detrimental to students?

Quality is fine, but as I said, longer hours in school will have a diminishing effect on the student
Why? You haven't justified this.

If you noticed, the article mentions that students in France have an extra weekday off in addition to some half days. I think they would do well to have extra classroom instruction.
, and there is some merit in allowing the student to manage his or her time outside the classroom.

This is exactly what the homework ban does; it permits students to pursue extra activities outside of school. There have been plenty of days in which I have done nothing but homework. How does that help me manage my time or pursue other activities?
If two kids have a spelling test, and one has parents that are less helpful, then such is life. Why is it so damn important to make it "fair" by reducing the challenge to the students that are up for it?
That's not the problem that this ban is addressing. The problem that it's addressing is the fact that teachers are depending on parents to teach their children and styling it as homework. I've seen it happen in my elementary school. My siblings went through this.

That again points to the nature of the work. I never had help from parent, because it was doable work. This points to the nature of the work that's being expected rather than the concept of homework itself.
You're ignoring my point, which is that the teachers are relying on the parents to help/on students to have resources to learn the material on their own. I'm not discounting the concept of homework; I'm attacking the fact that teachers are using it as a crutch to avoid difficult classroom discussions. Homework wouldn't be a problem if all of the material was taught in the classroom.
If your siblings were left to their own devices they wouldn't have been able to do the work? If so the work is inappropriate, but you shouldn't discard the concept of homework because of inappropriate assignments.

I'm not discounting the concept of homework; I'm attacking the manner in which teachers are using homework.
Notice that anybody is free to work at home regardless of the ban. Just because homework does not exist does not mean that parents still cannot aid their students while they study for the exam or that hard-working students cannot do extra problems. My organic chemistry class does not have mandatory homework, and I do extra problems from a variety of different sources that the teacher has not provided us with. Similarly, parents can still aid their children in studying for classroom exams.
This was ignored . . .
Individual acheivement is not dependent on the circumstances of those with different individual circumstances. If we want an individual to become the absolute best he or she can, they must be challenged appropriately.

Explain how making them rely on their parents to teach them concepts that should be taught in the classroom challenges them appropriately.

I'm not defending a specific assignment, but rather the merit in homework, as outside projects that can be done to supplement the classroom work. By limiting the curriculum to a classroom experience, you have cut the curriculum.

Increasing the number of hours in the classroom permits students to have extra time to work on projects. The curriculum is not being cut if students have the opportunity to do the supplementary work in school.
It is a foolish and demented to drag down the individual to the lowest denominator in their class, rather than providing an atmosphere that allows them to excel to their potential.

Nobody is being dragged down. See above. Anybody can do extra work outside of class.

Yeah, like anyone can pay extra taxes, no person ever does that.

1. This is blatantly false. Not only did I do extra work, but so do most students who succeed in difficult high school classes.

2. I don't see why you care. Why are you forcing students to do work? Shouldn't you want to stifle mediocrity by encouraging the motivated students to succeed at the expense of their classmates?
royalpaladin
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10/22/2012 4:05:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I even do extra work in college even if it doesn't help my grade. In one of my classes, the teacher assigns required reading and "recommended" reading that doesn't have to be done unless you are planning to write one of your two papers on those topics. I do all of the required and recommended reading. So yes, people do extra work if they're motivated.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/22/2012 4:36:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 4:03:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:54:44 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:35:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:28:34 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Your critique of the homework is more of the nature of the homework, rather than the actual concept of homework itself. Increasing the number of hours in class seems to be silly, and will have a diminishing return on the student.
What is this based on? How is increasing the quality and length of classroom instruction detrimental to students?

Quality is fine, but as I said, longer hours in school will have a diminishing effect on the student
Why? You haven't justified this.

More hours? You don't think that forcing kids to remain in school more than what is traditionally expected has a diminishing return on the student? - This is tangental to the OP.
If you noticed, the article mentions that students in France have an extra weekday off in addition to some half days. I think they would do well to have extra classroom instruction.
Fine, again tangental.

, and there is some merit in allowing the student to manage his or her time outside the classroom.

This is exactly what the homework ban does; it permits students to pursue extra activities outside of school. There have been plenty of days in which I have done nothing but homework. How does that help me manage my time or pursue other activities?
Not pursue other activities, I didn't say that. I mean to meet the expectations of their curriculum on their own time.

If two kids have a spelling test, and one has parents that are less helpful, then such is life. Why is it so damn important to make it "fair" by reducing the challenge to the students that are up for it?
That's not the problem that this ban is addressing. The problem that it's addressing is the fact that teachers are depending on parents to teach their children and styling it as homework. I've seen it happen in my elementary school. My siblings went through this.

Again, you are throwing out the concept of homework, because of the nature of the homework that cannot be done by a student independently. If the problem is in the nature of the work, then address that, not discard the whole concept of homework.
That again points to the nature of the work. I never had help from parent, because it was doable work. This points to the nature of the work that's being expected rather than the concept of homework itself.
You're ignoring my point, which is that the teachers are relying on the parents to help/on students to have resources to learn the material on their own. I'm not discounting the concept of homework; I'm attacking the fact that teachers are using it as a crutch to avoid difficult classroom discussions. Homework wouldn't be a problem if all of the material was taught in the classroom.
You are discounting the concept of homework, if your keen on banning it. If you have a problem with the nature of the homework being dissemenated by teachers, then address that.
If your siblings were left to their own devices they wouldn't have been able to do the work? If so the work is inappropriate, but you shouldn't discard the concept of homework because of inappropriate assignments.

I'm not discounting the concept of homework; I'm attacking the manner in which teachers are using homework.

Of course you are discounting the concept of homework, don't be ridiculous. One doesn't support the banning of something they have value in.

Notice that anybody is free to work at home regardless of the ban. Just because homework does not exist does not mean that parents still cannot aid their students while they study for the exam or that hard-working students cannot do extra problems. My organic chemistry class does not have mandatory homework, and I do extra problems from a variety of different sources that the teacher has not provided us with. Similarly, parents can still aid their children in studying for classroom exams.
This was ignored . . .
Individual acheivement is not dependent on the circumstances of those with different individual circumstances. If we want an individual to become the absolute best he or she can, they must be challenged appropriately.

It wasn't ignored, it's been stated over and over and over, that you have a problem with the nature of the homework being assigned, so you want to ban it.

Explain how making them rely on their parents to teach them concepts that should be taught in the classroom challenges them appropriately.

I'm not defending a specific assignment, but rather the merit in homework, as outside projects that can be done to supplement the classroom work. By limiting the curriculum to a classroom experience, you have cut the curriculum.

Increasing the number of hours in the classroom permits students to have extra time to work on projects. The curriculum is not being cut if students have the opportunity to do the supplementary work in school.
It is a foolish and demented to drag down the individual to the lowest denominator in their class, rather than providing an atmosphere that allows them to excel to their potential.

Nobody is being dragged down. See above. Anybody can do extra work outside of class.

Yeah, like anyone can pay extra taxes, no person ever does that.

1. This is blatantly false. Not only did I do extra work, but so do most students who succeed in difficult high school classes.

Yes well, the average kid is less motivated when there are less expectations.

2. I don't see why you care. Why are you forcing students to do work? Shouldn't you want to stifle mediocrity by encouraging the motivated students to succeed at the expense of their classmates?

Low expectations produces low results, and continued lower expectations is a direction of mediocrity.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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10/22/2012 4:38:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Why shouldn't I get an advantage if my parents want to help me?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
darkkermit
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10/22/2012 4:43:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 4:40:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Homework is useless except on Summer break.

This is good.

homework gives students who care an unfair advantage to students who don't give a crap.
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Lordknukle
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10/22/2012 4:49:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Royal, this is just more nonsensical egalitarianism. If I have an advantage, why should I be able to exploit it?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DetectableNinja
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10/22/2012 5:25:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 4:49:18 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Royal, this is just more nonsensical egalitarianism. If I have an advantage, why should I be able to exploit it?

You mean "shouldn't?"
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
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10/22/2012 5:26:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This argument makes me think of this:
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Lordknukle
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10/22/2012 5:50:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 5:25:05 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 10/22/2012 4:49:18 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Royal, this is just more nonsensical egalitarianism. If I have an advantage, why should I be able to exploit it?

You mean "shouldn't?"

Yes.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Contra
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10/22/2012 9:46:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

Now, I am opposed to federal gov't involvement in education, and think that banning homework is going to have *some* disadvantages, but my life would be phenomenally improved, I could actually get 8 hours of sleep a night AND be a teenager at the same time!
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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10/22/2012 9:49:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 9:46:13 PM, Contra wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

Now, I am opposed to federal gov't involvement in education, and think that banning homework is going to have *some* disadvantages, but my life would be phenomenally improved, I could actually get 8 hours of sleep a night AND be a teenager at the same time!

do what everyone else did in high school and copy the homework from someone else.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/23/2012 7:43:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm all for schools deciding whether or not they should impose homework, but the government should have no say in this. It does not surprise me that a hardcore leftist drags France toward idiotic laws.
RyuuKyuzo
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10/23/2012 11:09:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 5:26:35 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
This argument makes me think of this:

Little known fact: I'm the top comment on that video.

Now you all know my youtube channel! =D
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
ax123man
Posts: 317
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10/24/2012 6:19:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/22/2012 3:13:37 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/22/2012 2:47:17 PM, innomen wrote:
http://abcnews.go.com...

In the left's insane quest for equality the new Socialist French Leader has proposed a ban on homework, because it's not fair that some kids have parents that care about them and help them with their homework.

As always the net result of their version of fairness is a devotion toward mediocrity, and settling for substandards at the individual level.

You missed the compensation that he is adding.

Hollande has also pledged to add 60,000 teaching jobs in the next five years. He has also expressed support for extending the school week by establishing a model in which children would attend school for nine half days a week. Schools would be able to decide if this is spread over four, five or even six days, in consultation with local authorities and parents.

I think this is fair. As someone who does homework for my siblings at least two-three times every week, I don't see why it's fair for them to get grades if they're not doing the work or they don't understand the material. Work should be done in the classroom. I also think that this solution highlights a key problem that you are glossing over by condemning the "strive for mediocrity". A lot of teachers, especially for students in primary school, depend on parents to do part of the work. This really isn't fair because some students aren't getting the proper environment at home and they are expected to be on the same level as their peers. Either teachers need to stop depending on parents or they need to give higher quality instruction in the classroom, which is what this ban forces them to do.

Er, why are you (or other parents) doing your childs homework? Yea, I guess if you don't want them to learn anything, sure. It sounds like you are saying "I'm not that concerned if they learn anything, but yea, give them more time in school because this sucks for me personally"