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Paradox of Place

Neumax
Posts: 39
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11/19/2009 8:25:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
The Paradox of Place is one of Zeno's Paradoxes. He basically states that "if everything that exists has a place, place too will have a place, and so on ad infinitum" (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; Zeno's Paradoxes - 4.1).

So if everything has a place and place has a place, that means that the place within a place would have a place and the space would be infinite. I came across this while doing some research with my friend.

Thoughts?
A true optimist would think that the glass is half awesome.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/19/2009 8:31:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/19/2009 8:25:25 PM, Neumax wrote:
The Paradox of Place is one of Zeno's Paradoxes. He basically states that "if everything that exists has a place, place too will have a place, and so on ad infinitum" (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; Zeno's Paradoxes - 4.1).

So if everything has a place and place has a place, that means that the place within a place would have a place and the space would be infinite. I came across this while doing some research with my friend.

Thoughts?

I think there's no paradox at all, and that Zeno just worded his sentence in such a way as to make it seem like there is. Basically, the sentence "if everything that exists has a place, place too will have a place" doesn't even make sense to me.

You wouldn't really say that "everything that exists has a place", you'd say that everything that exists occupies space, or some such. Nobody would suggest that space must occupy space to "exist".
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
Neumax
Posts: 39
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11/19/2009 8:34:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
True. That's the root behind the paradox though.

Everything that exists occupies space.
Space exists.
Therefore space occupies itself infinitely.

Idk, it's late at night so maybe I'm just over-thinking this. Lol.
A true optimist would think that the glass is half awesome.
leet4A1
Posts: 1,986
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11/19/2009 8:42:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/19/2009 8:34:32 PM, Neumax wrote:
True. That's the root behind the paradox though.

Everything that exists occupies space.
Space exists.
Therefore space occupies itself infinitely.

Idk, it's late at night so maybe I'm just over-thinking this. Lol.

Lol, it's alright to over-think things; most people don't think at all, about anything, ever. I know which I'd rather, haha.

Besides, my response was no more than my opinion, there are others on here I know will provide better and more detailed responses than I did.
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

"And Genisis 1 does match modern science... you just have to try really hard." - GR33K FR33K5
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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11/19/2009 8:44:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Place is an abstraction, and therefore does not exist in reality, and so does not have its own place. There is no paradox.

In a similar way, everything likes having its welfare risen; therefore welfare likes having its general welfare risen, ad infinitum.

Again, all beings are collectively a society. It is absurd to assert that this society must be in its own society, ad infinitum. This applies to place in the same way.

A more valid premise for this 'paradox' would be "All material objects have a place". And then there is clearly no paradox.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Neumax
Posts: 39
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11/20/2009 6:48:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/19/2009 8:44:33 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Place is an abstraction, and therefore does not exist in reality, and so does not have its own place. There is no paradox.

In a similar way, everything likes having its welfare risen; therefore welfare likes having its general welfare risen, ad infinitum.

Again, all beings are collectively a society. It is absurd to assert that this society must be in its own society, ad infinitum. This applies to place in the same way.

A more valid premise for this 'paradox' would be "All material objects have a place". And then there is clearly no paradox.

Resolved. Lol. Nice. :P
A true optimist would think that the glass is half awesome.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/20/2009 7:05:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I would just say that place; space that is; does not have a place.

Space is not in any "place" relative to anything else, because all things are contained within it.

If you consider "space" a thing of itself, then all things do not have their place, because space does not have a relative place.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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5/3/2011 1:17:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/19/2009 8:31:52 PM, leet4A1 wrote:
At 11/19/2009 8:25:25 PM, Neumax wrote:
The Paradox of Place is one of Zeno's Paradoxes. He basically states that "if everything that exists has a place, place too will have a place, and so on ad infinitum" (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; Zeno's Paradoxes - 4.1).

So if everything has a place and place has a place, that means that the place within a place would have a place and the space would be infinite. I came across this while doing some research with my friend.

Thoughts?

I think there's no paradox at all, and that Zeno just worded his sentence in such a way as to make it seem like there is. Basically, the sentence "if everything that exists has a place, place too will have a place" doesn't even make sense to me.

You wouldn't really say that "everything that exists has a place", you'd say that everything that exists occupies space, or some such. Nobody would suggest that space must occupy space to "exist".

Ah yes, I had a similar solution in mind when I first heard of it.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ