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Alarming Research Shows the Sorry State of US

Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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7/13/2013 1:05:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
http://blogs.hbr.org...

"The Pew Research Center found that the price of a private college education tripled between 1980 and 2010, and that average student loan debt for bachelor's degree holders who had to borrow was more than $23,000 in 2011. This debt is not dischargeable even in bankruptcy, and is certainly not erased if you fail to graduate.

Smart students from affluent homes and elite colleges and universities continue to do really well, but the rest of higher ed is sliding backward. Why is this? As was the case with the sub-prime crisis and subsequent economic meltdown, there is plenty of blame to go around. Many non-elite colleges have seen their enrollments jump in recent decades without similar increases in budgets, so resources per student have declined.

It also seems, though, that colleges in general have stopped asking students to work as hard, and the students have been more than happy to take them up on that offer. Arum, Roksa, and their colleagues document that college students today spend only 9% of their time studying (compared to 51% on "socializing, recreating, and other"), much less than in previous decades, and that only 42% reported having taken a class the previous semester that required them to read at least 40 pages a week and write at least 20 pages total. They write that "The portrayal of higher education emerging from [this research] is one of an institution focused more on social than academic experiences. Students spend very little time studying, and professors rarely demand much from them in terms of reading and writing.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
While, I do agree that higher education needs to be reformed, a lot of the information on higher education is alarmist. While tuitions are in fact rising, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. Likewise, the default rate for college debt is actually at an all-time low.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...
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darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/13/2013 4:16:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'd also note that 31 hours are left unaccounted for in your survey. This includes time in the classroom, which is around 15 hours. And most people in college work part time as well, which accounts for the other hours. I'd consider working part-time a productive use of one's time since one learn job skills, which is what's really important.
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darkkermit
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7/13/2013 4:20:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There's also a bunch of extracurricular activities that I'd say are often more valuable than what one learns in school. For example, if you're interested in journalism, one can write for the school newspaper.
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Steelerman6794
Posts: 158
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7/15/2013 4:24:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
While, I do agree that higher education needs to be reformed, a lot of the information on higher education is alarmist. While tuitions are in fact rising, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. Likewise, the default rate for college debt is actually at an all-time low.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...

Could this be due to the fact that student debt is no longer forgivable in the face of bankruptcy?
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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7/15/2013 6:44:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. :

Is this really true. I would love to see a source if so. I always thought that college degrees now, did not give as great of advantage as in the past.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/15/2013 7:21:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 6:44:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. :

Is this really true. I would love to see a source if so. I always thought that college degrees now, did not give as great of advantage as in the past.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com...

There are more people going to college, because its become more valuable, and having just a high school education isn't going to get you far at all.
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twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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7/15/2013 8:21:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/15/2013 7:21:31 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/15/2013 6:44:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. :

Is this really true. I would love to see a source if so. I always thought that college degrees now, did not give as great of advantage as in the past.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com...

There are more people going to college, because its become more valuable, and having just a high school education isn't going to get you far at all.

Thank you!
slo1
Posts: 4,308
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7/19/2013 11:13:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/13/2013 4:06:33 PM, darkkermit wrote:
While, I do agree that higher education needs to be reformed, a lot of the information on higher education is alarmist. While tuitions are in fact rising, so is the ratio between the salary of a high school graduate and a college graduate. Likewise, the default rate for college debt is actually at an all-time low.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...

That default rate is probably closer tied to interest rates on the debt than having more income as a college graduate. If I recall right the income of college graduates has declined in real terms over the last 30 years.

I have no doubt that the separation of earnings between college graduates to high school graduates continues to grow, but I would guess when factoring in costs and other variables one has to plan it out to get the best bang for the buck or one might end up with a nice graduation certificate and nothing to show for it but mountains of debt.

I could write what is wrong with higher education and why they cause more than half the problems. Clearly the status quo of these brick and mortar institutions is not going to be easy to break.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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7/24/2013 1:36:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
generalization
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Cowboy0108
Posts: 420
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7/26/2013 6:57:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. Colleges need to be cheaper across the board. If anything, the more selective colleges need to be cheaper than the ones that aren't. Think about it, a student is smart and wants to go to a prestigious college, but cannot because it is far too expensive. However, a student is dumb and wants to go to an average college, they can go with no problem, even though they may disrupt the learning environment. I believe colleges should charge more for the poor students as they require much more maintenance as opposed to charging more for the extremely intelligent students.
2. Colleges need to be more selective. They need to encourage students to exceed standards as opposed to meeting them.
3. I disagree with the statement that college work should be more demanding. I believe that professors should give students all the resources they need to be able to do well on the test and in whatever career they need the knowledge. The professors should give reading assignments and lectures. I believe that professors should redo the testing systems. They should ensure that tests actually examine the students performance in real life scenarios. Students should not be given busywork. They should be given one or two difficult, long term, assignments over the course of a semester.
Colleges should start with these three items. If they redo costs, increase selectivity, and redo the examine methods the future of America will be better.