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mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

My junior high textbook just listed theories as to how life developed:
Intelligent design
Reaction from outer space
Chemical reaction
I forget...

Listing theories seems to be the most rational choice.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/4/2010 4:23:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Abiogenesis - most widely accepted field of study of how life came to be, with evidence to back up most claims and theories found within.

Intelligent design - not a theory, because it has no evidence, and is based in scripture and myth.

Want to be fair? Sure, mention the theories - but ID isn't a theory, so it won't be popping up.
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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1/4/2010 4:31:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Right.

And you know, school doesn't have to have every answer to every question. At a certain point, it's okay to say 'we just don't friggin' know.'

That's the explanation for how the universe was created (pre-Big Bang.) Christians seem to think that they're right by default because for some things they have the only response, but we all know that being the first to answer doesn't make it right.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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1/4/2010 4:38:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Have a research assignment. Tell them that would be a good topic for it. Teaching students that if they ask questions of teachers in complex matters the answers shall be certainly attained directly thereby is a terrible idea, it makes them intellectually dependent.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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1/4/2010 4:41:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ragnar, why say, "I don't know..." when you can say, "Well, here are the most popular explanations that people have come up with..."?

Otherwise, we'd teach students nothing about why we yawn, rather than three plausible explanations.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The solution to this problem is quite simple. The abolition of government schools.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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1/4/2010 5:34:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 4:43:19 PM, Reasoning wrote:
The solution to this problem is quite simple. The abolition of government schools.

Then what do the private schools say?
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 5:38:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:34:31 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 1/4/2010 4:43:19 PM, Reasoning wrote:
The solution to this problem is quite simple. The abolition of government schools.

Then what do the private schools say?

Whatever the heck they want.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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1/4/2010 5:44:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:41:19 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:38:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Whatever the heck they want.

Doesn't answer the question.

I don't think Reasoning actually understands how real life works.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 5:46:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:41:19 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:38:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Whatever the heck they want.

Doesn't answer the question.

Sure it does. Government schools should be abolished and private schools should be able to teach whatever they want. (Of course a collective can't actually teach anything, but it is a figure of speech.)
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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1/4/2010 5:46:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:44:27 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:41:19 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:38:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Whatever the heck they want.

Doesn't answer the question.

I don't think Reasoning actually understands how real life works.

How so?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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1/4/2010 5:47:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The teacher should tell him that there's lots he could research about it. Maybe the teacher could give him a little idea of some different ideas, like Volkov said.

The problem is that ID has nothing backing it up. You can present it as an "idea" (not a theory, as some of the truly idiotic politicians try to present it on equal footing with evolution) that has no backing other than a novel.

I am against ID because scientific ideas have basically infinitely more backing in fact.
LeafRod
Posts: 1,548
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1/4/2010 5:48:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:46:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
How so?

Because the question is not about the government or private and public schools. Seriously, no one here cares about that in this specific thread. This thread is about what a teacher should say to a student.

Get your head in the game, son. I've noticed that a lot of people try to push their ideas so much that they do so when it's entirely irrelevant.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/4/2010 5:50:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:46:24 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Sure it does. Government schools should be abolished and private schools should be able to teach whatever they want. (Of course a collective can't actually teach anything, but it is a figure of speech.)

Still doesn't answer mongeese's question. I disagree with you that government schools should be abolished, but that doesn't matter on this topic. What should the private schools teach?
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 5:56:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:48:50 PM, LeafRod wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:46:46 PM, Reasoning wrote:
How so?

Because the question is not about the government or private and public schools. Seriously, no one here cares about that in this specific thread. This thread is about what a teacher should say to a student.

Get your head in the game, son. I've noticed that a lot of people try to push their ideas so much that they do so when it's entirely irrelevant.

Sure it does. The entire debate in this subject has been around what should be taught in government school. One group thinks that Intelligent Design should be taught in government schools, another group thinks otherwise. There is no non-arbitrary way of resolving the dispute. Abolishing it solves the problem.

I have never heard a person complain because Intelligent Design is being taught in Private Schools.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/4/2010 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:56:00 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Sure it does. The entire debate in this subject has been around what should be taught in government school. One group thinks that Intelligent Design should be taught in government schools, another group thinks otherwise. There is no non-arbitrary way of resolving the dispute. Abolishing it solves the problem.

Aside from the fact that abolishing public schools causes more problems than there already are -- abolishing public schools is not a viable or possible solution at this point in time.

I have never heard a person complain because Intelligent Design is being taught in Private Schools.

I'm sure there have been. Still a straw man though. What should the private schools teach the children?
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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1/4/2010 6:02:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 5:59:48 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/4/2010 5:56:00 PM, Reasoning wrote:
Sure it does. The entire debate in this subject has been around what should be taught in government school. One group thinks that Intelligent Design should be taught in government schools, another group thinks otherwise. There is no non-arbitrary way of resolving the dispute. Abolishing it solves the problem.

Aside from the fact that abolishing public schools causes more problems than there already are -- abolishing public schools is not a viable or possible solution at this point in time.

I have never heard a person complain because Intelligent Design is being taught in Private Schools.

I'm sure there have been. Still a straw man though. What should the private schools teach the children?

Would you like a response from a personal private school student?
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 6:10:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in [government] schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

This is what I read it as. As I would have suspected most would. I have never heard of this being an issue in a Private School setting.

That being said, if the question was about schools in general, than I have answered part of the question already. I have no opinion on the other part.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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1/4/2010 6:15:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:10:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in [government] schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

This is what I read it as. As I would have suspected most would. I have never heard of this being an issue in a Private School setting.

That being said, if the question was about schools in general, than I have answered part of the question already. I have no opinion on the other part.

Well, the problem here is that a "private" school can teach children that we come from spaghetti, where as a "public" school that is brought forth by all the people would have none of that :)
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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1/4/2010 6:16:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:15:03 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 1/4/2010 6:10:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in [government] schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

This is what I read it as. As I would have suspected most would. I have never heard of this being an issue in a Private School setting.

That being said, if the question was about schools in general, than I have answered part of the question already. I have no opinion on the other part.


Well, the problem here is that a "private" school can teach children that we come from spaghetti, where as a "public" school that is brought forth by all the people would have none of that :)

Both my public school and private school experiences will support Vi's statement ;)
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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1/4/2010 6:17:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:15:03 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 1/4/2010 6:10:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in [government] schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

This is what I read it as. As I would have suspected most would. I have never heard of this being an issue in a Private School setting.

That being said, if the question was about schools in general, than I have answered part of the question already. I have no opinion on the other part.


Well, the problem here is that a "private" school can teach children that we come from spaghetti, where as a "public" school that is brought forth by all the people would have none of that :)

Btw, congrats on having L back home. I'm sure you two have a lot of "catching up" to do. ;)
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 6:20:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:15:03 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 1/4/2010 6:10:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/4/2010 4:18:54 PM, mongeese wrote:
Most people here seem to be against the mention of Intelligent Design in [government] schools.

So, when a student asks where life firsts originiated, what should be the proper response?

This is what I read it as. As I would have suspected most would. I have never heard of this being an issue in a Private School setting.

That being said, if the question was about schools in general, than I have answered part of the question already. I have no opinion on the other part.


Well, the problem here is that a "private" school can teach children that we come from spaghetti, where as a "public" school that is brought forth by all the people would have none of that :)

Precisely. The public disagrees about how the "public" school should be run. Therefore the only non-arbitrary solution is therefore abolition.

Private schools can teach whatever they want because they are not tax-funded.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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1/4/2010 6:21:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Thanks, lol, but I'm just visiting her for the afternoon tomorrow. I don't get to actually come home to her until Friday.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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1/4/2010 6:22:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:20:08 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Precisely. The public disagrees about how the "public" school should be run. Therefore the only non-arbitrary solution is therefore abolition.

Private schools can teach whatever they want because they are not tax-funded.

You think that's good?
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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1/4/2010 6:33:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:22:20 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 1/4/2010 6:20:08 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Precisely. The public disagrees about how the "public" school should be run. Therefore the only non-arbitrary solution is therefore abolition.

Private schools can teach whatever they want because they are not tax-funded.


You think that's good?

Yeah. Freedom of Speech.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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1/4/2010 6:37:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'd laugh, but I'm feeling more pity for you than anything.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Reasoning
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1/4/2010 6:38:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:37:45 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
I'd laugh, but I'm feeling more pity for you than anything.

Why?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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1/4/2010 6:43:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/4/2010 6:38:59 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 1/4/2010 6:37:45 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
I'd laugh, but I'm feeling more pity for you than anything.

Why?

Because you'd rather have children be told lies through the will of their parents and other misinformed then have the whole population discuss and deem what is the closest to the truth to teach to all of our youth regardless of the beliefs of their parents and the disillusioned.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.