Total Posts:118|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Educational Literature

Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2010 9:34:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have a lot of unused Borders gift cards, and I've decided to create an account on their website (instead of going to the local Waldenbooks, which is sadly lacking) in order to spoil myself with some good reading. I've already ordered a few books (The Spirit of Community, The Virtue of Selfishness, and The Prince), but I was looking for something a bit more on the libertarian side. During my time on this site, I've obviously clashed with a libertarian or two (*coughragnarcough*), and I feel like there's something to be learned about the ideology opposite me; I'm intrigued because, in several ways, libertarianism is a similar (yet still different, if that makes sense) way of solving social problems, and I wouldn't want to be ignorant by discrediting it without a second thought.

Anyhow, I'm beating around the bush: the question is... without pointing me straight to Ayn Rand... what would y'all recommend as far as credible libertarian literature?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2010 10:33:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I suppose Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifeso, could be considered "libertarian" in some ways. I'd also suggest looking about at Barry Goldwater who has quite a few books, the most interesting being The Conscience of a Conservative, though it may not be exactly what you're looking for - still an interesting read, though.

But, other than that, my knowledge is small of libertarian books. Now, if you want some modern liberalism literature, you can count on me. xD
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2010 10:47:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The Communist Manifesto. Ok, I'm kidding. Seriously though, I have no idea. Only thing I can think of is Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Wouldn't exactly call that Libertarian though.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/11/2010 11:25:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Any topics in particular you want the books to be aboot?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 1:49:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
OP wrote:

I suggest Milton Friedman for a more moderate and economic-policy-focused perspective.

For a more general look, try Robert Nozick: Anarchy, State, and Utopia.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 1:53:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 1:44:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/11/2010 10:47:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The Communist Manifesto. Ok, I'm kidding. Seriously though, I have no idea. Only thing I can think of is Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Wouldn't exactly call that Libertarian though.

I own Wealth of Nations. Good book, but long as sh*t.

I haven't read it yet, but if it's long that won't do my short attention span any good. There's alot of extensive political works I still need to read.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 1:57:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 1:53:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 1/12/2010 1:44:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/11/2010 10:47:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The Communist Manifesto. Ok, I'm kidding. Seriously though, I have no idea. Only thing I can think of is Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Wouldn't exactly call that Libertarian though.

I own Wealth of Nations. Good book, but long as sh*t.

I haven't read it yet, but if it's long that won't do my short attention span any good. There's alot of extensive political works I still need to read.

It's about 1200 pages.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:03:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Unfortunately I got the "general principles" from Rand and you said no Rand so...
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:03:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 1:57:24 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/12/2010 1:53:35 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 1/12/2010 1:44:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 1/11/2010 10:47:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The Communist Manifesto. Ok, I'm kidding. Seriously though, I have no idea. Only thing I can think of is Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations. Wouldn't exactly call that Libertarian though.

I own Wealth of Nations. Good book, but long as sh*t.

I haven't read it yet, but if it's long that won't do my short attention span any good. There's alot of extensive political works I still need to read.

It's about 1200 pages.

Ok, way too long. Very same reason I won't read Marx's Kapital.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:05:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Liberalism by Ludwig von Mises is a good book. The book was written in the late 1920s mind you, so it's not about the liberalism of today. It's about Classical Liberalism. A great introduction, and a decent book.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:07:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, that's most important.

We The Living would also be a good read. Then you'd know all about those lice I told you about.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:10:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I haven't read Nozick but from what I've read in third parties you prolly wouldn't go far wrong there.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:11:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:10:03 PM, Nags wrote:
Randism, or Objectivism, isn't libertarianism.

It's a specific philosophy that is libertarian in addition to being other things. The fact that Rand was confused about the meaning of the word libertarianism and so rejected it is irrelevant to this.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:11:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:10:03 PM, Nags wrote:
Randism, or Objectivism, isn't libertarianism.

I know this is probably an idiotic question, but what's the difference between the two? I always thought of Rand as Libertarian.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:17:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:10:11 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I haven't read Nozick but from what I've read in third parties you prolly wouldn't go far wrong there.

I plan to read him soon, but I'm busy with school and other books.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:17:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:11:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/12/2010 2:10:03 PM, Nags wrote:
Randism, or Objectivism, isn't libertarianism.

It's a specific philosophy that is libertarian in addition to being other things. The fact that Rand was confused about the meaning of the word libertarianism and so rejected it is irrelevant to this.

Schwartz and Peikoff would disagree, but I guess you could agree and argue with Kelley.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:25:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:17:37 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/12/2010 2:11:24 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 1/12/2010 2:10:03 PM, Nags wrote:
Randism, or Objectivism, isn't libertarianism.

It's a specific philosophy that is libertarian in addition to being other things. The fact that Rand was confused about the meaning of the word libertarianism and so rejected it is irrelevant to this.

Schwartz and Peikoff would disagree, but I guess you could agree and argue with Kelley.

As my profile says:

"I am an Objectivist, though more aligned with the David Kelley/TAS faction than the Leonard Peikoff/ARI faction."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:27:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:11:56 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I know this is probably an idiotic question, but what's the difference between the two? I always thought of Rand as Libertarian.

Rand thought she was the man (figuratively) and thought of Randism as some all encompassing world view, or philosophical system. Libertarianism is a political theory. Rand argues for pure unregulated capitalism, while almost all libertarians argue for some regulation from the state. Both are limited government, neither are anarchists. Rand argued for a more hawk-ish stance on foreign policy than most libertarians. Pretty similar overall though.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:30:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
while almost all libertarians argue for some regulation from the state.

Those are poseurs, not libertarians. A libertarian is someone who finds it always unacceptable to initiate force or fraud.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:30:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:25:45 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
As my profile says:

"I am an Objectivist, though more aligned with the David Kelley/TAS faction than the Leonard Peikoff/ARI faction."

Lol, oops. I agree with you though, I agree more with TAS than ARI. I'm just pointing out to Cody there is an argument for both sides though.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:31:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:30:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Those are poseurs, not libertarians. A libertarian is someone who finds it always unacceptable to initiate force or fraud.

Those are minarchists, not representative of libertarianism as a whole at all.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:40:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/12/2010 2:31:37 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/12/2010 2:30:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Those are poseurs, not libertarians. A libertarian is someone who finds it always unacceptable to initiate force or fraud.

Those are minarchists, not representative of libertarianism as a whole at all.

You propose an alternative definition?

With teeth, or just a rehashing of classical liberalism, which we already have a term for?

And no, those aren't all minarchists. Anarcho-capitalists are libertarian too.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/12/2010 2:45:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
And Anarcho-communists are libertarian as well. They just consider property to be violence.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light