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Oratory

Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 9:54:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hitler did some awful things, yes - however, he was one of history's most powerful orators, something we all know to be self-evident. One of my favorite speeches (and one of the most famous) was at the Nuremberg Rally in 1936, and the fact that I know German makes this speech all the more penetrating, as I can understand him firsthand, rather than having to rely on subtitles which leave out a lot to people who don't know the language, especially the "power words" he used.

Rather than rave about his speaking ability, however, I would like to open a discussion on the art of oratory - successes and failures, what great orators have in common, and - provided videos can be found - I would also like to see some other powerful speeches, as well.

Hopefully, this will be a good discussion, full of meaningful contributions and critiques. With that, I turn over the reins.

Go.
Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 9:55:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 9:54:53 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Hitler did some awful things, yes - however, he was one of history's most powerful orators, something we all know to be self-evident. One of my favorite speeches (and one of the most famous) was at the Nuremberg Rally in 1934, and the fact that I know German makes this speech all the more penetrating, as I can understand him firsthand, rather than having to rely on subtitles which leave out a lot to people who don't know the language, especially the "power words" he used.

Rather than rave about his speaking ability, however, I would like to open a discussion on the art of oratory - successes and failures, what great orators have in common, and - provided videos can be found - I would also like to see some other powerful speeches, as well.

Hopefully, this will be a good discussion, full of meaningful contributions and critiques. With that, I turn over the reins.

Go.

Also, I'm an idiot. I don't know why, but I pressed the wrong key. 1934, not 1936.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.
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fnord
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I will admit he was an amazing orator though. Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.
Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 10:05:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.

There goes that inflated sense of self-importance again. ;)
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/7/2010 10:06:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Great topic.

However, I'm trying to finish my US History shiznat right now, so I will have to wait until tomorrow until adding much substance.

Barack Obama is a great speaker with the TOTUS. But otherwise, he is average.
Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 10:09:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I really like him, up until about... Kristallnacht.

I will admit he was an amazing orator though.

Aye. His speeches are absolutely captivating. Even for people who have an incurable hatred for the Nazi regime, his oratorical prowess has a powerful impact.

Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.

And yes, he did some pretty fantastic things for his country. Personally... And, this will sound pretty bad, I'm sure - I always wonder if Hitler was as universally awful as people make him out to be. I obviously don't condone the death camps, but history is written by the victor, and it always makes me stop and think.
FREEDO
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2/7/2010 10:09:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:05:11 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.

There goes that inflated sense of self-importance again. ;)

I knew someone would say that.

Maybe I'm just so awesome that every time I'm honest it just comes across that way!

JK

But I was being honest :P
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/7/2010 10:11:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:09:22 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I really like him, up until about... Kristallnacht.

I will admit he was an amazing orator though.

Aye. His speeches are absolutely captivating. Even for people who have an incurable hatred for the Nazi regime, his oratorical prowess has a powerful impact.

Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.

And yes, he did some pretty fantastic things for his country. Personally... And, this will sound pretty bad, I'm sure - I always wonder if Hitler was as universally awful as people make him out to be. I obviously don't condone the death camps, but history is written by the victor, and it always makes me stop and think.

As an Anarchist, I have to admit I thought the same.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:13:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:09:44 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:05:11 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.

There goes that inflated sense of self-importance again. ;)

I knew someone would say that.

Maybe I'm just so awesome that every time I'm honest it just comes across that way!

JK

But I was being honest :P

Well, no offense, but I highly doubt that your oratorical abilities are comparable to King's. Much like people who compared me to Hitler for being an authoritarian. :) If you're really that good, though - put a video on here, and let us be the judge of your abilities. :P
Reasoning
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2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me. He didn't use any of the good buzzwords though. Like "kidnap", "in a cage", "extortion", "coercion", "statist", etc.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/7/2010 10:17:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:13:38 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:09:44 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:05:11 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.

There goes that inflated sense of self-importance again. ;)

I knew someone would say that.

Maybe I'm just so awesome that every time I'm honest it just comes across that way!

JK

But I was being honest :P

Well, no offense, but I highly doubt that your oratorical abilities are comparable to King's. Much like people who compared me to Hitler for being an authoritarian. :) If you're really that good, though - put a video on here, and let us be the judge of your abilities. :P

Haha, no, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought I could speak like King, that's not what I meant.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:19:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:17:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:13:38 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:09:44 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:05:11 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:01:00 PM, FREEDO wrote:
For the two years I spent in the Civil Air Patrol I had the nick-name "King", referencing MLKjr.'s speech skills.

Pretty much, the two most important things are having a loud voice, spoken from the diagram and having captivating and assertive body language.

There goes that inflated sense of self-importance again. ;)

I knew someone would say that.

Maybe I'm just so awesome that every time I'm honest it just comes across that way!

JK

But I was being honest :P

Well, no offense, but I highly doubt that your oratorical abilities are comparable to King's. Much like people who compared me to Hitler for being an authoritarian. :) If you're really that good, though - put a video on here, and let us be the judge of your abilities. :P

Haha, no, I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought I could speak like King, that's not what I meant.

Well, by pointing out that nickname of yours, it's hard to take it any other way than "I'm great" - which is pretty annoying. Regardless - post a video.
Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 10:23:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me.

As compared to whom?

He didn't use any of the good buzzwords though. Like "kidnap", "in a cage", "extortion", "coercion", "statist", etc.

Content of the speech has nothing to do with one's actual speaking ability. It would be completely f*cking idiotic to dismiss someone's oratorical abilities just because that person isn't an anarchist. :) I don't agree with Obama, but I admit that he's a fairly nice orator - at least, when he has a teleprompter.

On that note, I think that, whether you use a teleprompter or not, a good speaker needs to know what he is going out there to say (call it gendered language, but I'm not typing "he/she" every godd*mn time). I know that I can ad-lib speeches pretty well, but nobody can go on that way forever.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/7/2010 10:24:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:09:22 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I really like him, up until about... Kristallnacht.

I will admit he was an amazing orator though.

Aye. His speeches are absolutely captivating. Even for people who have an incurable hatred for the Nazi regime, his oratorical prowess has a powerful impact.

Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.

And yes, he did some pretty fantastic things for his country. Personally... And, this will sound pretty bad, I'm sure - I always wonder if Hitler was as universally awful as people make him out to be. I obviously don't condone the death camps, but history is written by the victor, and it always makes me stop and think.

Well if it wasn't for the holocaust and hatred stuff I would probably view Hitler as one of the best world leaders.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/7/2010 10:25:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:19:54 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Regardless - post a video.

seconded!
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:26:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:24:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:09:22 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I really like him, up until about... Kristallnacht.

I will admit he was an amazing orator though.

Aye. His speeches are absolutely captivating. Even for people who have an incurable hatred for the Nazi regime, his oratorical prowess has a powerful impact.

Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.

And yes, he did some pretty fantastic things for his country. Personally... And, this will sound pretty bad, I'm sure - I always wonder if Hitler was as universally awful as people make him out to be. I obviously don't condone the death camps, but history is written by the victor, and it always makes me stop and think.

Well if it wasn't for the holocaust and hatred stuff I would probably view Hitler as one of the best world leaders.

Even with the inclusion of that, one cannot immediately discredit that Hitler was likely one of the best statesmen in history.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/7/2010 10:28:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:25:14 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:19:54 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Regardless - post a video.

seconded!

Ok, I was planning on starting a video blog but my videos have been refusing to upload, I'll give a speech-mode video when I can figure it out.
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fnord
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/7/2010 10:29:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:25:14 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:19:54 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Regardless - post a video.

seconded!

Thirded.

You can't just compare your oratory skills to MLK, one of the best of all time, without backing it up.

On a side note, did Hitler write his own speeches? Because it really pisses me off nowadays that 99.9% of politicians have speech-writers write their whole speech, and the politicians get credit. Jon Favreau, Obama's speech-writer, has written almost in entirety every single major speech for Obama. It's ridiculous.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:30:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:26:49 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:24:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:09:22 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:03:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Come on, admit it. As a Fascist you love Hitler. ;)

I really like him, up until about... Kristallnacht.

I will admit he was an amazing orator though.

Aye. His speeches are absolutely captivating. Even for people who have an incurable hatred for the Nazi regime, his oratorical prowess has a powerful impact.

Not only that, he did practically transform Germany into a superpower during the depression.

And yes, he did some pretty fantastic things for his country. Personally... And, this will sound pretty bad, I'm sure - I always wonder if Hitler was as universally awful as people make him out to be. I obviously don't condone the death camps, but history is written by the victor, and it always makes me stop and think.

Well if it wasn't for the holocaust and hatred stuff I would probably view Hitler as one of the best world leaders.

Even with the inclusion of that, one cannot immediately discredit that Hitler was likely one of the best statesmen in history.

And again, he was able, through the power of speech, to unite the broken spirit of the German people. The depression, the Treaty of Versailles, and the vacuum of effective leadership all helped to tear apart the Germans' faith. Even though atrocities were committed later on, his ability to inspire people - to give them hope - remains legendary.
FREEDO
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2/7/2010 10:32:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Come to think of it, maybe my big ego gives me my speaking skills.

Confidence plays a big part.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:32:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:29:23 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:25:14 PM, belle wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:19:54 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Regardless - post a video.

seconded!

Thirded.

You can't just compare your oratory skills to MLK, one of the best of all time, without backing it up.

Well, he said that he wasn't comparing himself to King - still, that nickname requires justification. :P

On a side note, did Hitler write his own speeches? Because it really pisses me off nowadays that 99.9% of politicians have speech-writers write their whole speech, and the politicians get credit. Jon Favreau, Obama's speech-writer, has written almost in entirety every single major speech for Obama. It's ridiculous.

I don't know. I'll check - but yes, it is extremely annoying that politicians don't oten write their own speeches. Though, even if Hitler didn't write them, he didn't have a teleprompter. Look at the Nuremberg address - all from his head (or memory).
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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2/7/2010 10:35:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:23:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me.

As compared to whom?

See the video.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
FREEDO
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2/7/2010 10:36:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Two more important things about speech is inflexion, making it sound all fancy, and not saying "um" or things like that.
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fnord
Xer
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2/7/2010 10:40:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:35:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:23:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me.

As compared to whom?

See the video.



Sounds like a robot.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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2/7/2010 10:41:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:38:12 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Nags: I haven't found anything conclusive, which leads me to believe that Hitler wrote most of his own material (since he did start out as a speaker in the Munich Beer Hall); however, I believe that Himmler may have written some of them.

I also thought that Hitler wrote much of his material by himself.

Do you think that Hitler was the best statesman/leader/politician of all time? Just curious.
Cody_Franklin
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2/7/2010 10:43:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:35:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:23:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me.

As compared to whom?

See the video.



No.

1. His body language isn't expressive - it's downright boring, actually.

2. His voice is very nasally, and doesn't have the loud, authoritative tone that makes for powerful speaking.

3. He's trying too hard - this makes him stress many of the wrong words, and makes him seem excessively melodramatic and snobbish.

Also, refer to my earlier statement - speech content is irrelevant to one's ability to orate effectively. I may not agree with Hitler's policies, but that doesn't make him a bad speaker.
Reasoning
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2/7/2010 10:43:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:40:45 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:35:27 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:23:39 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:15:13 PM, Reasoning wrote:
I've never understood this phenomena. I don't understand what is so impressive about both Hitler and Obama's oratory skills.

They seem okay to me.

As compared to whom?

See the video.

Sounds like a robot.

No, this is a robot.

He spoke coolly and calmly which gave off a great air of intellectualism and radicalism.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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2/7/2010 10:45:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/7/2010 10:41:55 PM, Nags wrote:
At 2/7/2010 10:38:12 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Nags: I haven't found anything conclusive, which leads me to believe that Hitler wrote most of his own material (since he did start out as a speaker in the Munich Beer Hall); however, I believe that Himmler may have written some of them.

I also thought that Hitler wrote much of his material by himself.

Do you think that Hitler was the best statesman/leader/politician of all time? Just curious.

He was certainly a very effective one; again, I don't necessarily support many of his actions post-Kristallnacht, but the fact that he gave hope to the Germans, revived the dead economy, reduced crime to nearly nothing, and conquered much of Europe without military conflict seems to suggest that he was a brilliant statesman, leader, politician, and strategist.