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Public or Private?

InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/15/2010 1:55:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Definitely public. Just because somebody has more money it doesn't mean they should be entitled to better education, especially since it's not their money, but likely their parent's money.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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2/15/2010 1:57:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:55:59 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Definitely public. Just because somebody has more money it doesn't mean they should be entitled to better education, especially since it's not their money, but likely their parent's money.

Why should the parents be prevented from spending their money the way they seem fit?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
DontBeRacist
Posts: 584
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2/15/2010 1:58:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 7:54:46 AM, True2GaGa wrote:
Which do you prefer?
Public or Private Schooling?

A lot of private schools are just as bad drug/fight/crime wise as public schools. The education might be better but the kid still has to want to achieve. I'm going with public.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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2/15/2010 1:58:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You're right insert. Everyone should be crowded into crappy public schools.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
InsertNameHere
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2/15/2010 1:58:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:57:29 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/15/2010 1:55:59 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Definitely public. Just because somebody has more money it doesn't mean they should be entitled to better education, especially since it's not their money, but likely their parent's money.

Why should the parents be prevented from spending their money the way they seem fit?

The child should have to earn their way into school like everybody else has to.
Reasoning
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2/15/2010 2:00:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:58:26 PM, wjmelements wrote:
You're right insert. Everyone should be crowded into crappy public schools.

I think that we should stop using the term "public" and instead use "government". It takes away a lot of the mystique and romanticism that has been conferred upon "public" schools and allows for more rational debate.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
wjmelements
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2/15/2010 2:01:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:58:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The child should have to earn their way into school like everybody else has to.

So no children should be able to attend any school, public or private?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/15/2010 2:01:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:58:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/15/2010 1:57:29 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/15/2010 1:55:59 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Definitely public. Just because somebody has more money it doesn't mean they should be entitled to better education, especially since it's not their money, but likely their parent's money.

Why should the parents be prevented from spending their money the way they seem fit?

The child should have to earn their way into school like everybody else has to.
The point is to prevent injustices (like you thieving away the parent's money from the cause they choose to spend it on) not to prevent things simply because justice doesn't demand them. Things one doesn't earn should not be expected, but they are not bad things in and of themselves. They are only bad if you steal for them, and to a lesser extent if you happen to be a moron who chooses to pay for them for no good reason.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/15/2010 2:04:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:01:18 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/15/2010 1:58:58 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
The child should have to earn their way into school like everybody else has to.

So no children should be able to attend any school, public or private?

No, that's not what I said. I meant that if a child wants an elite education they should have to earn their way in with good grades and such rather than money. Money shouldn't=better education. It gives the poor no chance to better their lives.
alto2osu
Posts: 277
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2/15/2010 2:04:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If public schools were what they should be, I'd prefer public. Mind you, the more people with actual means that send their kids to public school, the less likely they are to whine about taxation in support of those public schools.

However, given our capitalist society, it would be unjust, obviously, to deny people access to a privatized alternative. Although, for the record, they don't necessarily provide a superior education to a public institution. Many of the differences are merely stereotypes.
Reasoning
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2/15/2010 2:07:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:04:45 PM, alto2osu wrote:
If public schools were what they should be, I'd prefer public. Mind you, the more people with actual means that send their kids to public school, the less likely they are to whine about taxation in support of those public schools.

Which is one of the problems.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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2/15/2010 2:09:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:04:00 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
No, that's not what I said. I meant that if a child wants an elite education they should have to earn their way in with good grades and such rather than money. Money shouldn't=better education. It gives the poor no chance to better their lives.

Person A legitimately possesses money quantity A. Person B is willing to teach Person A's progeny for money quantity X and Person A wishes to make such a trade.

InsertNameHere sticks a gun to their face and tells them that such a transaction would be unfair and if they attempt to perform such a transaction they will be punished.

That doesn't sound very leftist to me.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
True2GaGa
Posts: 1,574
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2/15/2010 2:21:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 1:58:10 PM, DontBeRacist wrote:
At 2/15/2010 7:54:46 AM, True2GaGa wrote:

A lot of private schools are just as bad drug/fight/crime wise as public schools. The education might be better but the kid still has to want to achieve. I'm going with public.

Agreeed. I go to a private school and we problely have more fights and cops on our campus any school I know. All private school is [is] a bunch of snobsish, brats and up-tight people who try to make you wear uniforms.
alto2osu
Posts: 277
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2/15/2010 2:29:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, the problems with regards to substance abuse and uniforms aren't exclusive to one form or the other. People seem to be under the impression that private schools should exhibit fewer of these problems, but that's the myth. Some kids do stupid sh*t. The biggest difference is in the expectation, not the actual behavior.

The private schools I tend to dislike the most are like Waldorf-style charter schools. What a waste of...well, everything.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/15/2010 2:29:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I go though a public-private, that is to say, the curriculum is dictated by the government some minuscule percentage is given to fund it. Like most schools here, the some Catholic trustee runs them. Uniforms must be worn. They suck.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/15/2010 2:30:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
My personal opinion.

Private is better, but it is also worse. It is better for individuals, but worse for society. We need to work off what we have. Everyone should be entitled to a base level education (public schools) and those that wish to pay for a better education should be able to buy it (private schools, or tutors). So long as there is a base that is sufficient that everyone is able to get an education that will allow them to compete in the world, I'm a happy camper.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
alto2osu
Posts: 277
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2/15/2010 2:31:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I really don't understand the uniform movement in any school. If these schools would bother to read any educational research from the last decade, they'd realize that they don't hold any of the original benefits touted by supporters. Very silly.
I-am-a-panda
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2/15/2010 2:32:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:31:08 PM, alto2osu wrote:
I really don't understand the uniform movement in any school. If these schools would bother to read any educational research from the last decade, they'd realize that they don't hold any of the original benefits touted by supporters. Very silly.

They're also gender streamed D:
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/15/2010 2:33:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:29:21 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I go though a public-private, that is to say, the curriculum is dictated by the government some minuscule percentage is given to fund it. Like most schools here, the some Catholic trustee runs them. Uniforms must be worn. They suck.

I went to Catholic school and absolutely loved wearing a uniform (our winter ones were sexy). Anyway, it depends on the school. I went to a private school and it sucked balls; my parents should not have wasted the money and sent me to a public school instead where I was actually held accountable for things. If the school was private and good, I'd send my kids there if not home school, I guess.
President of DDO
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/15/2010 2:34:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:29:21 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I go though a public-private, that is to say, the curriculum is dictated by the government some minuscule percentage is given to fund it. Like most schools here, the some Catholic trustee runs them. Uniforms must be worn. They suck.

My first debate I ever did was about school uniforms. The teacher assigned me to PRO and the students were the voters (6th grade). Needless to say, I lost.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Reasoning
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2/15/2010 2:35:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:33:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I went to Catholic school and absolutely loved wearing a uniform (our winter ones were sexy). Anyway, it depends on the school. I went to a private school and it sucked balls; my parents should not have wasted the money and sent me to a public school instead where I was actually held accountable for things. If the school was private and good, I'd send my kids there if not home school, I guess.

Do you intend to adopt? I didn't think the state allowed for that.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
I-am-a-panda
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2/15/2010 2:35:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:34:30 PM, alto2osu wrote:
Gender streamed...not a term I'm familiar with? I can guess, but I'd prefer a working definition. :)

No girls :(
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/15/2010 2:41:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:34:48 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/15/2010 2:29:21 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
I go though a public-private, that is to say, the curriculum is dictated by the government some minuscule percentage is given to fund it. Like most schools here, the some Catholic trustee runs them. Uniforms must be worn. They suck.

My first debate I ever did was about school uniforms. The teacher assigned me to PRO and the students were the voters (6th grade). Needless to say, I lost.

I'm actually in favour of school uniforms because in alot of cases(at least from my experiences) the kids are actually judged by what they're wearing. There may be somebody attending a school who may not have the most money so may show up at school wearing really scrappy clothes. I have seen cases where kids are actually picked on because of what they're wearing.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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2/15/2010 2:41:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There should be the option of both. But my kids are going to private school, no question about it. I feel trepidation just thinking about the children of the next generation. Growing up, I realized that not every person is a good person, and therefore not every parent is a good parent. I can't have my kids growing up around kids raised by unfit parents.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/15/2010 2:43:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:35:18 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 2/15/2010 2:33:26 PM, theLwerd wrote:
I went to Catholic school and absolutely loved wearing a uniform (our winter ones were sexy). Anyway, it depends on the school. I went to a private school and it sucked balls; my parents should not have wasted the money and sent me to a public school instead where I was actually held accountable for things. If the school was private and good, I'd send my kids there if not home school, I guess.

Do you intend to adopt? I didn't think the state allowed for that.

I'd prefer not to adopt but I might opt for that if I decide that I don't want to physically give birth. Ideally both myself and my partner will give birth to our children (with the same sperm donor), but neither Vi nor myself want to endure pregnancy and childbirth so adoption might be our final decision haha (though I doubt it). If it's not legal, we'll fight for it. If it's still not legal, I'll adopt and have her sign a bunch of legal agreements so we can cheat the sh!tty system like everybody else. Of course it sucks that we'd have to go through a ton f lawyers, paperwork and money in order to do that (even though a guy can stick his d!ck in a girl and automatically be considered a legal father or guardian even if he doesn't wanna be) but why should that matter? Gays are just second class citizens. Eh, actually 6th class behind women, blacks and Mexicans.
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/15/2010 2:43:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The state should education requirements and watch over the examination/qualification process as well as engage in limited price fixing if needs be, apart from that I'd be in favour of full privatisation.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
alto2osu
Posts: 277
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2/15/2010 2:45:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/15/2010 2:41:58 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
There should be the option of both. But my kids are going to private school, no question about it. I feel trepidation just thinking about the children of the next generation. Growing up, I realized that not every person is a good person, and therefore not every parent is a good parent. I can't have my kids growing up around kids raised by unfit parents.

So, you assume that all parents of kids that go to private schools are fit? That seems to me to be the furthering of another myth regarding private school: that all parents who have the ability or means to send a kid off to private school are automatically better parents... :|