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Arguing with teachers.

alyfish126
Posts: 21
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6/24/2014 11:22:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This was on an online exam (for a stupid general ed "Chemistry in Everyday Life" course)

________ is considered by many people to play a central role among the sciences.
Answers:
Chemistry
Geology
Physics
Biology

Geology I ruled out immediately, because many sciences have no use for it. I also thought chemistry is central to biology and ruled out the latter. I was left with physics and chemistry. While chemistry is central to most sciences (since atoms make up everything studied) I assumed physics was central to chemistry (since physicists study properties of matter and energy). I answered physics because I thought it central to chemistry, thus central to most sciences. I was wrong, and it doesn't show the right answer but I think it was chemistry now.

First, is my reasoning incorrect?

If so, should I present the issue? Not necessarily for a grade change, but for the obvious problem with the question... "considered by many people..." I bet physicists (many people) would answer differently than biologists (many people).
chui
Posts: 507
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6/26/2014 10:57:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I feel the main problem here is that the question is poorly worded. What does the examiner mean by central role? I would say that physics is the foundation of the other sciences but I am not sure that is the same as central.
ThoughtsandThoughts
Posts: 178
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6/26/2014 8:22:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/24/2014 11:22:42 PM, alyfish126 wrote:
This was on an online exam (for a stupid general ed "Chemistry in Everyday Life" course)

________ is considered by many people to play a central role among the sciences.
Answers:
Chemistry
Geology
Physics
Biology


Geology I ruled out immediately, because many sciences have no use for it. I also thought chemistry is central to biology and ruled out the latter. I was left with physics and chemistry. While chemistry is central to most sciences (since atoms make up everything studied) I assumed physics was central to chemistry (since physicists study properties of matter and energy). I answered physics because I thought it central to chemistry, thus central to most sciences. I was wrong, and it doesn't show the right answer but I think it was chemistry now.

First, is my reasoning incorrect?

If so, should I present the issue? Not necessarily for a grade change, but for the obvious problem with the question... "considered by many people..." I bet physicists (many people) would answer differently than biologists (many people).

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, chemistry focuses on attributes of physical matter - and physics focuses on how that matter behaves? To me, that makes it seem like chemistry has a central role in physics.

I'm into biology, and I would've selected chemistry as the answer myself. Not sure if that affected my answer :P In any case, it was an oddly worded question (like the other reply said). But even if physicists would answer differently, your teacher probably expects that you'd select the most objective answer. Do you feel it was the most objective answer? (Obviously, I'm not taking your class, so my opinion is just an opinion). If not, then I wouldn't present the issue to the teacher.
alyfish126
Posts: 21
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6/26/2014 8:56:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I felt like it was the most objective answer, and chemistry was subjective to the professor's perspective. Biology and chem degrees both require physics courses, but physics degrees don't require the other sciences. I see what you mean by "foundation" vs "central" though
bettabreeder
Posts: 27
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7/11/2014 11:28:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I've always debated with mine about American History
Slavery exists. It is black in the South, and white in the North. - Andrew Johnson
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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7/11/2014 3:36:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I was in a similar situation in college, let me explain what happened and how I dealt with it.

I was a student with a strong science background, taking a gen ed course that I was forced to take by my school to satisfy a cultural component... I believe the class was "women in the sciences" or something to that effect. We read books about successful women scientists and she administered tests. On one of the tests she put a science question, one that was addressed during one of those women's biographies (I didn't read any of them, I actually had my gf at the time read all my books for that stupid class and just do my assignments for me). Even though I hadn't read the book the quiz was addressing, I understood the science behind it and answered (I can't remember what it was about, this was almost a decade ago). I got the question wrong, and decided to email the teacher to complain. I saw her after class, and, to make a long story short, she wasn't even familiar with the science surrounding the question, she was just looking for a particular factoid out of the book which she misinterpreted as meaning something else. I had out-thunk the question much like you out-thunk your question: chemistry is intrinsically based upon physical processes, in exactly the same way that biology is based upon chemical processes.

Problem is, your teacher, like mine, wasn't teaching science so-to-speak, they were teaching a lesson about science. The factoid I missed out of the book showed I didn't read it, and that's what really mattered in the end. You missed the point the teacher was trying to make: chemistry is an important aspect of many disciplines. That's all that matters, and you should accept that you missed that point and move on.

I made a stink about the question to my teacher, and it not only did nothing to improve my grade, but it pissed her off and my grade slid to a B where I probably would have gotten an AB. My grade slid because I strained my relationship with her and that made the class more difficult (I probably wouldn't have slept in so many times instead of sitting through her videos on successful women lol). At any rate, my point is that the relationship with your teacher is vital, and you need to win them over with your mastery of the material instead of pushing their grading style. The latter will choke your success in the class! It would be appropriate to point out such a mistake to the professor AFTER you get your final grade!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
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7/17/2014 8:46:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/24/2014 11:22:42 PM, alyfish126 wrote:
This was on an online exam (for a stupid general ed "Chemistry in Everyday Life" course)

________ is considered by many people to play a central role among the sciences.
Answers:
Chemistry
Geology
Physics
Biology

At the risk of sounding stupid, considering that the course is called Chemistry in Everyday Life, chemistry seems the only viable option...
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
slo1
Posts: 4,351
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7/18/2014 2:47:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no such thing as chemistry without particle Physics. Your teacher probably thinks only of classical Newtonian Physics when using the word Physics. Your teacher is wrong.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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7/30/2014 8:48:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/24/2014 11:22:42 PM, alyfish126 wrote:
This was on an online exam (for a stupid general ed "Chemistry in Everyday Life" course)

________ is considered by many people to play a central role among the sciences.
Answers:
Chemistry
Geology
Physics
Biology


Geology I ruled out immediately, because many sciences have no use for it. I also thought chemistry is central to biology and ruled out the latter. I was left with physics and chemistry. While chemistry is central to most sciences (since atoms make up everything studied) I assumed physics was central to chemistry (since physicists study properties of matter and energy). I answered physics because I thought it central to chemistry, thus central to most sciences. I was wrong, and it doesn't show the right answer but I think it was chemistry now.

First, is my reasoning incorrect?

If so, should I present the issue? Not necessarily for a grade change, but for the obvious problem with the question... "considered by many people..." I bet physicists (many people) would answer differently than biologists (many people).

The question of the test is quite stupid and ambiguous. Since the four disciplines are essential to many other. I would "physics" is the most central, but since the course is named "chemistry in every day life", the answer is most likely chemistry.

You should advice the teachers to be a little bit more serious next time they develop a test.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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8/14/2014 11:08:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/24/2014 11:22:42 PM, alyfish126 wrote:
This was on an online exam (for a stupid general ed "Chemistry in Everyday Life" course)

________ is considered by many people to play a central role among the sciences.
Answers:
Chemistry
Geology
Physics
Biology


Geology I ruled out immediately, because many sciences have no use for it. I also thought chemistry is central to biology and ruled out the latter. I was left with physics and chemistry. While chemistry is central to most sciences (since atoms make up everything studied) I assumed physics was central to chemistry (since physicists study properties of matter and energy). I answered physics because I thought it central to chemistry, thus central to most sciences. I was wrong, and it doesn't show the right answer but I think it was chemistry now.

Geology (study of discourse/earth/rocks etc) Exempting Geology is smart enough
You left with
biology(study of life)
physics(study of matter&motion)
& Chemistry(study of physical science/ properties of matter)

Why did you assume physics as central to other sciences? Actually you knew the right answer but couldn't make the analogy
You knew: ((physicists study properties of matter and energy))....
This means; to "study the matter" (physics) physicists study "the properties of matter (chemistry)". Thus Chemistry is central to physics.

I also don't see any problem with the word "Central" because it proposes that "Chemistry plays a central role among the sciences. Or say, Sciences (Geology/Physics/Biology) work around the knowledge of Chemistry". If you don't know the composition of matter (chemistry), how would you get to know about its behavior (physics).

But yes, the term "by many [people]" is generic and subjective without specification (like either that means scientists/layman etc). So questione must be rephrased properly.

First, is my reasoning incorrect?

If so, should I present the issue? Not necessarily for a grade change, but for the obvious problem with the question... "considered by many people..." I bet physicists (many people) would answer differently than biologists (many people).
As I said You can argue for the term "by many [people]" for its being non-objective and must do to avoid the chaos in exams, but can't present your reasoning for physics because the "by many people" mistake hasn't any effect on the clue of rest of the question, one is still able to reach the correct answer by getting the logic of "central role" (that means the essential one).
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Publicaccount
Posts: 27
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8/28/2014 12:36:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't think it was asking what *is* the most central but what many people *think* is most central. If you asked most people to picture a scientist their vision would probably include chemistry.
arpit101
Posts: 1
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10/29/2014 11:44:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Arguing with teachers is important issue in school premises. it can be studied both in positive way and negative way. first of all i will discuss about the negative way of arguing with teachers. teachers are called gurus or the person who leads the student with the better future. teachers are the one who shows the child the path so that he/she can lead to growing and beautiful future. but some students in school are not included in this view. this is because of their thinking that they are more intelligent then teachers in some matters.this children are probably of rich family or one who like s to disturb the whole class by doing things that he thinks is good for him. students with this personality must be thrown out of school. teachers are the oen who know everything so one should not argue with them as they have experience about particular thing.students should learn good points for them. in positive sense for arguing with teachers is that some teachers are very bad with the students. like a teacher has very aggressive behavior with students. in this the student who want to cooperate with teachers start misbehaving with them. some teachers have habit that they beat students with stick on their hand. in this manner students are not at fault teachers should understand that students are taught by love inspiration patience caring and devoting. so this is my view in both positive and negative points on this statement .school works on both the efforts and understanding on teachers and students.
arpit agarwal