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The purpose of Math

I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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3/20/2010 5:35:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Over here, Maths is a compulsory subject up until college. What my course currently involves is Algebra, Trigonometry, Co-ordinate Geometry, Arithmetic, Area and Volume, and some other topics.

The rationale behind it being compulsory is that it teaches logic, among other things. Which is BS, seeing as having to know multiple Theorems =/= logic to me.

Thoughts?
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Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/20/2010 6:28:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 5:35:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Over here, Maths is a compulsory subject up until college. What my course currently involves is Algebra, Trigonometry, Co-ordinate Geometry, Arithmetic, Area and Volume, and some other topics.

The rationale behind it being compulsory is that it teaches logic, among other things. Which is BS, seeing as having to know multiple Theorems =/= logic to me.

Thoughts?

The foundation of math is logic, the two systems are very related. Look up Giuseppe Peano.

Logical proof of 1 + 1 = 2.
http://mathforum.org...
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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3/20/2010 6:30:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 6:28:12 AM, Puck wrote:
At 3/20/2010 5:35:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Over here, Maths is a compulsory subject up until college. What my course currently involves is Algebra, Trigonometry, Co-ordinate Geometry, Arithmetic, Area and Volume, and some other topics.

The rationale behind it being compulsory is that it teaches logic, among other things. Which is BS, seeing as having to know multiple Theorems =/= logic to me.

Thoughts?

The foundation of math is logic, the two systems are very related. Look up Giuseppe Peano.

Logical proof of 1 + 1 = 2.
http://mathforum.org...

Supporter of logicism, Puck?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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3/20/2010 6:38:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Though "The foundation of math" is probably too broad a statement on the term math here. Natural number system is based upon mathematical axioms, developed by Peano.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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3/20/2010 1:50:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I profoundly enjoy mathematics. I believe that Math classes should be made compulsory all the way through college (if school wasn't compulsory to begin with, this would be a completely different story). However, I do not feel that English should be compulsory at all in high school or above.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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3/20/2010 2:01:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 1:50:05 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I profoundly enjoy mathematics. I believe that Math classes should be made compulsory all the way through college (if school wasn't compulsory to begin with, this would be a completely different story). However, I do not feel that English should be compulsory at all in high school or above.

So, because you like Math, it should be compulsory; and, because you don't care as much about English, it shouldn't be compulsory? Yeah, okay.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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3/20/2010 2:29:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/20/2010 2:01:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
So, because you like Math, it should be compulsory; and, because you don't care as much about English, it shouldn't be compulsory? Yeah, okay.

Lol. My thoughts exactly.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/20/2010 6:42:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It should be compulsory for people who vote to make something compulsory to take over 9000 times the number of course hours in a subject that is compulsory for everyone else.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

Most people do not have to know Geometry either.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/21/2010 11:23:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

?

I'm sure you know high schoolers too who can't write well to save their lives. For that matter, I'm sure you know high schoolers who can't even read well.

Most people do not have to know Geometry either.

It practices logic.
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collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly and have a grasp on advanced vocabulary is essential to success in real life.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

and have a grasp on advanced vocabulary
Easily achieved by reading in other subjects.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/22/2010 3:53:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

Are you saying you haven't drastically improved your writing since sixth grade? Writing, unlike mathematics, has a subjective component to it that only gets refined with more and more practice.

By the way, I thought we agreed that you can't combine two independent clauses with only a comma.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 4:00:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 3:53:54 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

Are you saying you haven't drastically improved your writing since sixth grade?
Not in English classes I'll tell ya that much.

Writing, unlike mathematics, has a subjective component to it that only gets refined
Contradiction. It is impossible for something subjective to objectively be more or less fine.

By the way, I thought we agreed that you can't combine two independent clauses with only a comma.
No, we didn't agree, remember? First of all, I clearly can, as I just did, secondly, I said I'd follow that rule if your source fixed its contradiction. Has it? If not, inform me when it does.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/22/2010 4:19:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 4:00:22 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/22/2010 3:53:54 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

Are you saying you haven't drastically improved your writing since sixth grade?
Not in English classes I'll tell ya that much.

Perhaps you need better English teachers, then.

Writing, unlike mathematics, has a subjective component to it that only gets refined
Contradiction. It is impossible for something subjective to objectively be more or less fine.

Revision:
Writing has a component that can be better or worse based on society's scale, because writing is good based on how society perceives it to be. In contrast, mathematics is just right or wrong.
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collegekitchen7
Posts: 974
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3/22/2010 4:38:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Covered by sixth grade.

LOL hardly. There's writing with no sentence fragments and then there is writing a college level. The two are inequal.
: At 3/24/2010 1:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:
: But it's human nature. You're born inside your mother, so what's wrong with having some sexual activity with her?

: At 3/18/2010 6:48:05 AM, kelly224 wrote:
: read some credible history books, unplug from the matrix.

: At 3/21/2010 4:13:56 PM, Scott_Mann wrote:
: Stocks would not go up 30% over something that hasn't even happened yet.

: At 3/21/2010 6:06:10 PM, banker wrote:
: It apears you have a wierd grasp of english..! its only second to
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 6:00:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 4:19:20 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 4:00:22 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/22/2010 3:53:54 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

Are you saying you haven't drastically improved your writing since sixth grade?
Not in English classes I'll tell ya that much.

Perhaps you need better English teachers, then.
What's to learn precisely?


Writing, unlike mathematics, has a subjective component to it that only gets refined
Contradiction. It is impossible for something subjective to objectively be more or less fine.

Revision:
Writing has a component that can be better or worse based on society's scale, because writing is good based on how society perceives it to be. In contrast, mathematics is just right or wrong.
Society doesn't have scales or perceptions, or I, as a member of class "society", would have been informed.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/22/2010 9:57:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 6:00:49 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/22/2010 4:19:20 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 4:00:22 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/22/2010 3:53:54 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 3/22/2010 12:20:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/21/2010 11:40:11 AM, collegekitchen7 wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

That's ridiculous. Being able to write intelligibly
Covered by sixth grade. The "high schoolers" who can't do it are the ones who didn't listen, why waste everyone else's time on them?

Are you saying you haven't drastically improved your writing since sixth grade?
Not in English classes I'll tell ya that much.

Perhaps you need better English teachers, then.
What's to learn precisely?

Well, practice. To have a teacher guide you through really challenging literature and make you really think hard about it and appreciate the language.

Granted, some people don't need a guide. But many do. Most do, anyway.


Writing, unlike mathematics, has a subjective component to it that only gets refined
Contradiction. It is impossible for something subjective to objectively be more or less fine.

Revision:
Writing has a component that can be better or worse based on society's scale, because writing is good based on how society perceives it to be. In contrast, mathematics is just right or wrong.
Society doesn't have scales or perceptions, or I, as a member of class "society", would have been informed.

Most people can tell the difference between good writing and bad writing, because the definition of "good writing" is intersubjective. You can get better at writing with more practice.

You can also get better at mathematics with more practice, but there's a critical difference. In mathematics, there is always a definite answer. But in writing, it's about getting yourself to how good language sounds like.
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PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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3/22/2010 9:58:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 9:57:13 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
But in writing, it's about getting yourself to how good language sounds like.

* But in writing, it's about getting yourself attuned to how good language sounds like.
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 10:02:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What's to learn precisely?

Well, practice.
Practice isn't learning.

To have a teacher guide you through really challenging literature and make you really think hard about it and appreciate the language.
literature, i.e., fiction. It is this that is compulsory English classes-- being forced to learn how to read and "appreciate" (Thought control seriously?) old books. Some of which are good, some of which suck, all of which are useless to the majority of those who read them.


Granted, some people don't need a guide. But many do. Most do, anyway.
No, most get the guide and get nothing out of it whatsoever.

Society doesn't have scales or perceptions, or I, as a member of class "society", would have been informed.

Most people can tell the difference between good writing and bad writing
lawl

because the definition of "good writing" is intersubjective.
Doubtful, as demonstrated by the diversity of literary tastes.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 10:07:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Also, you get plenty of practice reading in other subjects. Like biology, or history, etc. The difference is you're reading things that have additional utility beyond being read.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Reasoning
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3/22/2010 10:16:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

I haven't taken English since Fifth.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 10:17:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 3/22/2010 10:16:36 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 3/21/2010 2:08:50 AM, wjmelements wrote:
English past sixth grade is entirely useless.

I haven't taken English since Fifth.

How'd you pull that one off?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/22/2010 10:18:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Perhaps more important, which university are you expecting to accept you? They tend to be stupid about that sort of thing.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.