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Open mindedness...

GodSands
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7/15/2010 7:48:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is ONLY for those who are willing to have an open mind [but the next part will cripple the first] and will shut the openness with wisdom.

We all have our own ideas of what is right. Well at least according to our selves. But, how much do you know about your own ideas? Say for an example, I will not take a confessing atheist into account, but a confessing Christian, and I am not having a go, but wanting yourselves to have a go at yourself.

But confessing atheists, listen, take what I am saying into your own account.

So we have a confessing Christian, he or she says they are saved, but wait, lets stop there. Already we have bumped into a wall. How much do you know about being saved? I am not saying, how much do you know about what the Bible says. Rather I am asking, what does being saved mean? What is to be saved?

And how would you find out? Would you take word for word what your pastor says? Do you independently think, take your Bible and think? Am I saved, am I who I think I am? Confessing atheists, how do you know that you believe there is no God?

Do you get to the core, the very essence of what you believe, now what do I mean? What I mean is, do you take aspect by aspect of what you believe, break it down into the smallest sections so that you can no longer think? Ask questions, why, how does that work, what is that for, why does that exist, why does something rather than nothing exist?! What does not believing or to believe in God mean?

Atheist, Christian, Muslim, God, justice, happiness etc...What do they mean? Not words like pen or cup. So, you go on to say, "An atheist is simply (you even say simply) someone who believes there is no God." How do you know you believe there is or is no God? And if you know not that you believe, how do you know you are an atheist or a believer in God? And if you know not that, how do you know what and who God is? If you do not know what an atheist is, how do you know what you are rejecting to be true? "Because I am sincere, I feel sincere." How do you know that you are sincere? "Because I feel that I am, other people seem the same as me when they are sincere, so we all have to be right." That isn't to the core of the meaning. And to you confessing Christians, how do you know that you believe from your heart? Because your sincere? The Bible says the heart deceives.

My point is, you base your lives off of what you believe to be true. And you go, "Well I don't think about what I base my life off, I just live my life." Then what you believe to be true is that we should just live our lives. But in reply you say, "Well that's just me, but other people can do what they like." No, they are just living their lives too. Are they dead? No.

We base our lives off of what we believe to be true. Is a belief a matter of opinion? Yes and no, by liking blue better than red, it doesn't change how you generally live your life. I mean, you still like colours like that person who likes pink. But if you were a true Christian, it will affect the way you act, think and your goals in life, and the same goes for a confessing atheist. Everything about you is shaped by your culture, how you look, what music you like, what style of painting you like, etc...But if you took all of that away, would you still believe what you believe now? Even though you will answer this question like you never heard it because it does not change the fact you have been shaped by your culture.

And I am attempting to reach the core of why you believe what you do. So why do you believe what you do? And so, how do you know you believe? Culture has already taken away your ability to know. But still try and answer.

Maybe if you were born again, that might help?
studentathletechristian8
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7/15/2010 7:50:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I agree with being open minded. Unfortunately, yet again, I didn't feel the desire to read anything that came after the thread's topic, so maybe I'll read it another time.
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GodSands
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7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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7/15/2010 7:56:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

I call bs.
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 7:58:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:56:40 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

I call bs.

That's nice.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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7/15/2010 7:58:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

He's an Atheist.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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7/15/2010 7:59:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:58:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:40 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

I call bs.

That's nice.

Your position is self refuting.
GodSands
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7/15/2010 7:59:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 7:58:29 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

He's an Atheist.


He is? You didn't read my post huh?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/15/2010 8:01:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?

I only acknowledge as true what is knowable. The only things which are knowable are self-evidences(I think therefore I am) and axioms(a thing is istelf).
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/15/2010 8:01:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I know that I truly believe there is no god since at one point I was a theist. I have gone from one extreme to another. Also, I am happier as an atheist so I am confident I am a true non-believer.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 8:05:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:59:08 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:58:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:40 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

I call bs.

That's nice.

Your position is self refuting.

Only if you define "belief" as any opinion. Which I do not.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GodSands
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7/15/2010 8:06:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:01:14 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?

I only acknowledge as true what is knowable. The only things which are knowable are self-evidences(I think therefore I am) and axioms(a thing is istelf).


Firstly, go change your religious status. And do you believe that you are seeing what is real, since you can only know for sure that you think and therefore you exist in some form. Do you believe that what you see is what there really is? Or do you believe what you see is no what there really is? And you may know maths and science, and things inside of what you believe to be real, but you have to believe that either what you are experiencing is either real or not. It's called solipsism, since you only know for sure that you exist in some form, you know nothing else outwardly to what you experience, but do you believe what you experience to be true?
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 8:14:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:06:53 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:01:14 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?

I only acknowledge as true what is knowable. The only things which are knowable are self-evidences(I think therefore I am) and axioms(a thing is istelf).


Firstly, go change your religious status. And do you believe that you are seeing what is real, since you can only know for sure that you think and therefore you exist in some form. Do you believe that what you see is what there really is? Or do you believe what you see is no what there really is? And you may know maths and science, and things inside of what you believe to be real, but you have to believe that either what you are experiencing is either real or not. It's called solipsism, since you only know for sure that you exist in some form, you know nothing else outwardly to what you experience, but do you believe what you experience to be true?

I'm growing tired of this. I explained myself quite clearly, you should be able to answer all those questions.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
JustCallMeTarzan
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7/15/2010 8:15:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 7:48:21 PM, GodSands wrote:
This is ONLY for those who are willing to have an open mind [but the next part will cripple the first] and will shut the openness with wisdom.

Wait... You YOURSELF don't have an open mind...

We all have our own ideas of what is right. Well at least according to our selves. But, how much do you know about your own ideas? Say for an example, I will not take a confessing atheist into account, but a confessing Christian, and I am not having a go, but wanting yourselves to have a go at yourself.

By the way, WTF is this "confessing" nonsense?

But confessing atheists, listen, take what I am saying into your own account.

So we have a confessing Christian, he or she says they are saved, but wait, lets stop there. Already we have bumped into a wall. How much do you know about being saved? I am not saying, how much do you know about what the Bible says. Rather I am asking, what does being saved mean? What is to be saved?

And how would you find out? Would you take word for word what your pastor says? Do you independently think, take your Bible and think? Am I saved, am I who I think I am? Confessing atheists, how do you know that you believe there is no God?

Because he can't be seen, heard, touched, tasted, or smelled? Because at best he is an imaginary friend and social construct, and at worst a logical impossibility?

Do you get to the core, the very essence of what you believe, now what do I mean? What I mean is, do you take aspect by aspect of what you believe, break it down into the smallest sections so that you can no longer think? Ask questions, why, how does that work, what is that for, why does that exist, why does something rather than nothing exist?! What does not believing or to believe in God mean?

We "confessing" atheists have a word for this. It's called SCIENCE.

Atheist, Christian, Muslim, God, justice, happiness etc...What do they mean? Not words like pen or cup. So, you go on to say, "An atheist is simply (you even say simply) someone who believes there is no God." How do you know you believe there is or is no God?

What the hell? How do I know I believe there is no God? Because I'm the one believing it genius!

And if you know not that you believe, how do you know you are an atheist or a believer in God?

Because by definition if I believe there is no God, I'm obviously an atheist...

And if you know not that, how do you know what and who God is?

But we DO know that - and simply because we don't believe your delusions doesn't mean we don't understand them.

If you do not know what an atheist is, how do you know what you are rejecting to be true? "Because I am sincere, I feel sincere." How do you know that you are sincere? "Because I feel that I am, other people seem the same as me when they are sincere, so we all have to be right." That isn't to the core of the meaning. And to you confessing Christians, how do you know that you believe from your heart? Because your sincere? The Bible says the heart deceives.

So then how do you know that you believe? Because a magic fairy in your ear told you? The Bible says all the senses deceive...

My point is, you base your lives off of what you believe to be true. And you go, "Well I don't think about what I base my life off, I just live my life." Then what you believe to be true is that we should just live our lives. But in reply you say, "Well that's just me, but other people can do what they like." No, they are just living their lives too. Are they dead? No.

Are all atheists dead? No...

We base our lives off of what we believe to be true. Is a belief a matter of opinion? Yes and no, by liking blue better than red, it doesn't change how you generally live your life. I mean, you still like colours like that person who likes pink. But if you were a true Christian, it will affect the way you act, think and your goals in life, and the same goes for a confessing atheist. Everything about you is shaped by your culture, how you look, what music you like, what style of painting you like, etc...But if you took all of that away, would you still believe what you believe now?

This is a crucial question ALL believers in religion should ask themselves. The answer to it should give anyone serious pause about claiming to have "truth."

Even though you will answer this question like you never heard it because it does not change the fact you have been shaped by your culture.

Exactly - you have no idea if Christianity is correct - you are just a product of your culture, which has just told you that you are Christian... you don't *actually* believe anything.

And I am attempting to reach the core of why you believe what you do. So why do you believe what you do? And so, how do you know you believe? Culture has already taken away your ability to know. But still try and answer.

Because interestingly enough, atheism isn't based on culture - it's based on logic and reason, which function irrespective of culture. So no - culture hasn't taken our ability to know.

Maybe if you were born again, that might help?

Not at all - it would only begin the vicious cycle of doubt all over again.
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 8:16:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
And I shouldn't change my religious status. I lack belief in God, thus making me an Atheist.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GodSands
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7/15/2010 8:19:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:01:26 PM, annhasle wrote:
I know that I truly believe there is no god since at one point I was a theist. I have gone from one extreme to another. Also, I am happier as an atheist so I am confident I am a true non-believer.

But because you 'use' to be a theist, and so you think you are not so any more, how do you know that you once believed you were a theist? Since you say now you are a true atheist, yet you think you changed from a theist. You now confess to be an atheist, because you seem happier, but maybe you only seem happier because you weren't really a theist? Since you say you changed from being one.

But lets start with God, since you now think you believe there is no God how do you know that what you believe is a rejection of God's existence. Do you know God?
GodSands
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7/15/2010 8:23:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:16:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
And I shouldn't change my religious status. I lack belief in God, thus making me an Atheist.

So you lack the belief in God, how do you know that you lack anything about God?
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 8:27:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:23:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:16:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
And I shouldn't change my religious status. I lack belief in God, thus making me an Atheist.

So you lack the belief in God, how do you know that you lack anything about God?

How do I know that I lack anything about God? Wtf does that mean?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GodSands
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7/15/2010 8:33:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:15:44 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:48:21 PM, GodSands wrote:
This is ONLY for those who are willing to have an open mind [but the next part will cripple the first] and will shut the openness with wisdom.

Wait... You YOURSELF don't have an open mind...

We all have our own ideas of what is right. Well at least according to our selves. But, how much do you know about your own ideas? Say for an example, I will not take a confessing atheist into account, but a confessing Christian, and I am not having a go, but wanting yourselves to have a go at yourself.

By the way, WTF is this "confessing" nonsense?

But confessing atheists, listen, take what I am saying into your own account.

So we have a confessing Christian, he or she says they are saved, but wait, lets stop there. Already we have bumped into a wall. How much do you know about being saved? I am not saying, how much do you know about what the Bible says. Rather I am asking, what does being saved mean? What is to be saved?

And how would you find out? Would you take word for word what your pastor says? Do you independently think, take your Bible and think? Am I saved, am I who I think I am? Confessing atheists, how do you know that you believe there is no God?

Because he can't be seen, heard, touched, tasted, or smelled? Because at best he is an imaginary friend and social construct, and at worst a logical impossibility?

Do you get to the core, the very essence of what you believe, now what do I mean? What I mean is, do you take aspect by aspect of what you believe, break it down into the smallest sections so that you can no longer think? Ask questions, why, how does that work, what is that for, why does that exist, why does something rather than nothing exist?! What does not believing or to believe in God mean?

We "confessing" atheists have a word for this. It's called SCIENCE.

Atheist, Christian, Muslim, God, justice, happiness etc...What do they mean? Not words like pen or cup. So, you go on to say, "An atheist is simply (you even say simply) someone who believes there is no God." How do you know you believe there is or is no God?

What the hell? How do I know I believe there is no God? Because I'm the one believing it genius!

And if you know not that you believe, how do you know you are an atheist or a believer in God?

Because by definition if I believe there is no God, I'm obviously an atheist...

And if you know not that, how do you know what and who God is?

But we DO know that - and simply because we don't believe your delusions doesn't mean we don't understand them.

If you do not know what an atheist is, how do you know what you are rejecting to be true? "Because I am sincere, I feel sincere." How do you know that you are sincere? "Because I feel that I am, other people seem the same as me when they are sincere, so we all have to be right." That isn't to the core of the meaning. And to you confessing Christians, how do you know that you believe from your heart? Because your sincere? The Bible says the heart deceives.

So then how do you know that you believe? Because a magic fairy in your ear told you? The Bible says all the senses deceive...

My point is, you base your lives off of what you believe to be true. And you go, "Well I don't think about what I base my life off, I just live my life." Then what you believe to be true is that we should just live our lives. But in reply you say, "Well that's just me, but other people can do what they like." No, they are just living their lives too. Are they dead? No.

Are all atheists dead? No...

We base our lives off of what we believe to be true. Is a belief a matter of opinion? Yes and no, by liking blue better than red, it doesn't change how you generally live your life. I mean, you still like colours like that person who likes pink. But if you were a true Christian, it will affect the way you act, think and your goals in life, and the same goes for a confessing atheist. Everything about you is shaped by your culture, how you look, what music you like, what style of painting you like, etc...But if you took all of that away, would you still believe what you believe now?

This is a crucial question ALL believers in religion should ask themselves. The answer to it should give anyone serious pause about claiming to have "truth."

Even though you will answer this question like you never heard it because it does not change the fact you have been shaped by your culture.

Exactly - you have no idea if Christianity is correct - you are just a product of your culture, which has just told you that you are Christian... you don't *actually* believe anything.

And I am attempting to reach the core of why you believe what you do. So why do you believe what you do? And so, how do you know you believe? Culture has already taken away your ability to know. But still try and answer.

Because interestingly enough, atheism isn't based on culture - it's based on logic and reason, which function irrespective of culture. So no - culture hasn't taken our ability to know.

Maybe if you were born again, that might help?

Not at all - it would only begin the vicious cycle of doubt all over again.


Nothing much to say here, after me doing some healthy challenging, here come the old man who thinks he knows it all. What made me think that you don't the most was when you said that you cannot hear, taste, touch, smell and see God. Can you hear, taste, touch, smell and see macro evolution? No, because if it exists, like God is everywhere it is enable to be sensed. If it could be, I wouldn't argue that it isn't real, it would be like sensing anything else that I sense. I wouldn't lie that I do not sense it if I really could. Anyway, I won't reply if you do respond, since this thread is not for this discusion.

Oh, how do you know that you use reason and logic? You believe so?
GodSands
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7/15/2010 8:34:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:27:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 8:23:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:16:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
And I shouldn't change my religious status. I lack belief in God, thus making me an Atheist.

So you lack the belief in God, how do you know that you lack anything about God?

How do I know that I lack anything about God? Wtf does that mean?


It means since you do not know God, how do you know that you do not believe in Him?
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/15/2010 8:38:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:19:39 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:01:26 PM, annhasle wrote:
: I know that I truly believe there is no god since at one point I was a theist. I have gone from one extreme to another. Also, I am happier as an atheist so I am confident I am a true non-believer.

But because you 'use' to be a theist, and so you think you are not so any more, how do you know that you once believed you were a theist?

I didn't know anything else besides Lutheran belief so I was completely immersed in it's teachings. However, there always seemed like something was lacking in the Christian and Catholic teachings.

Since you say now you are a true atheist, yet you think you changed from a theist. You now confess to be an atheist, because you seem happier, but maybe you only seem happier because you weren't really a theist?

At that time, I believed I was a theist. That's all I can tell. But no, I never studied the Bible intensively. I never cried because of my sins. I never prayed to God unless I was forced to, so maybe to you, I wasn't a "true" Christian.


: But lets start with God, since you now think you believe there is no God how do you know that what you believe is a rejection of God's existence?

Well, I believe there to be no divine creator nor any spiritual beings in our reality. My perspective is rooted in that belief of no god, so I reject God's existence. To me, it's like not believing in the tooth fairy. There was never evidence that she existed, only what my parents told me; so when I lost belief in her, I didn't truly "lose" anything. There was never a tooth fairy to begin with.

Do you know God?

I know what Christians claim to be God. I know his teachings and his importance to them. However, I believe him to be a fictional character, so I don't know him personally.

Do you know God, Godsands?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
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7/15/2010 8:40:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:34:45 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:27:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 8:23:00 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:16:59 PM, FREEDO wrote:
And I shouldn't change my religious status. I lack belief in God, thus making me an Atheist.

So you lack the belief in God, how do you know that you lack anything about God?

How do I know that I lack anything about God? Wtf does that mean?


It means since you do not know God, how do you know that you do not believe in Him?

RLY?......RLY?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/15/2010 8:44:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The problem, GodSands, is that you are showing your inability to understand the atheist point of view. Yet many atheists have already experienced your point of view. So who is more open-minded?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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7/15/2010 8:46:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:01:14 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?

I only acknowledge as true what is knowable. The only things which are knowable are self-evidences(I think therefore I am) and axioms(a thing is istelf).

Hard empiricism is self-refuting. You can prove that you exist, but can you prove that I exist?
JustCallMeTarzan
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7/15/2010 8:46:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:33:35 PM, GodSands wrote:

Nothing much to say here, after me doing some healthy challenging, here come the old man who thinks he knows it all. What made me think that you don't the most was when you said that you cannot hear, taste, touch, smell and see God. Can you hear, taste, touch, smell and see macro evolution? No, because if it exists, like God is everywhere it is enable to be sensed.

A fair response. I'm impressed. I should have included the faculties of logical inference and deduction. Macro-evolution, antimatter, dark matter, perfect polygons, etc... can all be logically inferred or deduced.

Unfortunately, God cannot.

If it could be, I wouldn't argue that it isn't real, it would be like sensing anything else that I sense. I wouldn't lie that I do not sense it if I really could. Anyway, I won't reply if you do respond, since this thread is not for this discusion.

It's a forum. All thread are for discussion. If you don't want discussion, leave and start a blog.

Oh, how do you know that you use reason and logic? You believe so?

Belief is not required to use logic. I know something is logical because it can be proven following a set of rules. Reason and logic are not something to believe in or not believe in - they just are. You don't "believe" you are speaking English - nor do you "believe" that gravity works. It's a fact of how the world works.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/15/2010 8:47:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/15/2010 8:46:01 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 7/15/2010 8:01:14 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:58:46 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:57:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/15/2010 7:56:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 7:55:08 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I don't believe anything. There is only realization or denial of what is knowable and unknowable. My stance is the abolition of denial.

Do you believe in God?

....


You don't know? Do you believe that we cannot know whether God exists?

I only acknowledge as true what is knowable. The only things which are knowable are self-evidences(I think therefore I am) and axioms(a thing is istelf).

Hard empiricism is self-refuting. You can prove that you exist, but can you prove that I exist?

Nope. And it would be irrational for me to accept as fact that you do.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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7/15/2010 9:11:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 7/15/2010 8:38:09 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 7/15/2010 8:19:39 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 7/15/2010 8:01:26 PM, annhasle wrote:
: I know that I truly believe there is no god since at one point I was a theist. I have gone from one extreme to another. Also, I am happier as an atheist so I am confident I am a true non-believer.

But because you 'use' to be a theist, and so you think you are not so any more, how do you know that you once believed you were a theist?

I didn't know anything else besides Lutheran belief so I was completely immersed in it's teachings. However, there always seemed like something was lacking in the Christian and Catholic teachings.

Since you say now you are a true atheist, yet you think you changed from a theist. You now confess to be an atheist, because you seem happier, but maybe you only seem happier because you weren't really a theist?

At that time, I believed I was a theist. That's all I can tell. But no, I never studied the Bible intensively. I never cried because of my sins. I never prayed to God unless I was forced to, so maybe to you, I wasn't a "true" Christian.


: But lets start with God, since you now think you believe there is no God how do you know that what you believe is a rejection of God's existence?

Well, I believe there to be no divine creator nor any spiritual beings in our reality. My perspective is rooted in that belief of no god, so I reject God's existence. To me, it's like not believing in the tooth fairy. There was never evidence that she existed, only what my parents told me; so when I lost belief in her, I didn't truly "lose" anything. There was never a tooth fairy to begin with.

Do you know God?

I know what Christians claim to be God. I know his teachings and his importance to them. However, I believe him to be a fictional character, so I don't know him personally.

Do you know God, Godsands?


Ok...Do I know God? I know true righteousness, and justice. What do I mean by that? What I mean is this, true righteousness is where righteousness is not ultered by unrighteousness, for example, God cannot lie, and in general God cannot sin. But if I could lie, but I haven't lied, I am not righteous. Jesus never lied, and neither could He, to say that He could is blstphemy. He could be tempted, and temptation comes from the tempter, the choice to sin is only caused by temptation, but to choose to sin is done and caused by a lack of passion or will.

A righteous man will not have condemning thoughts, but a religious man will. Since Jesus Christ has justified my sin, including my thought life, I am not longer accountable for my sin. So if you tell a lie, you already had thought about it, even if you do not tell the lie. And you are not righteous, since the core issue is how you think, of course that is only solved by trusting in Jesus Christ, and when you die. Since Jesus Christ came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it with love, our thoughts now count as being unrighteous, and that is where unrightousness is found. By know what unrighteousness is, you know that a perfect God is always righteous, always loving and just. I know my God like that. But I do not know His power or depth if it were.

You said this what caught my attention, "I believed I was a theist." If you believed you were a theist, and a theist can only exist if God does, you must have never believed you were a theist. If you say, "I have the belief that I once believed I was." Then is it possible that you could return?