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How would you "fix" the education system?

lannan13
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5/28/2015 2:38:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:39:01 AM, Fanny wrote:
If you could "fix" the current US education system, what changes would you make?

Privatize the education system, but offer school vouchers, allow states to dettermine ciriculum.
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SolonKR
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6/1/2015 7:01:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I actually wrote a 24-page paper about this for my argumentative Senior Essay--not that it makes me any more credible, nor is it an impressive length compared to end-of-college projects, but it does mean I have had to think quite a lot about the subject, as this was what I drew my topic from.

If I could have my way in a perfect world, I would create a national public school curriculum framework (think Common Core, but run by the federal government) with ONE (finally) national standardized test and more federal educational funding. The TL;DR reason for this is that it brings the lowest performing schools up without disincentivizing the highest performing ones. I would be more than happy to share my essay if anyone is interested, especially because I'd like critique from someone who enjoys argumentation, because that's what the essay is all about (though be warned, my academic writing gets EXTREMELY dry).
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,230
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6/1/2015 7:46:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 7:01:09 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I actually wrote a 24-page paper about this for my argumentative Senior Essay--not that it makes me any more credible, nor is it an impressive length compared to end-of-college projects, but it does mean I have had to think quite a lot about the subject, as this was what I drew my topic from.

If I could have my way in a perfect world, I would create a national public school curriculum framework (think Common Core, but run by the federal government) with ONE (finally) national standardized test and more federal educational funding. The TL;DR reason for this is that it brings the lowest performing schools up without disincentivizing the highest performing ones. I would be more than happy to share my essay if anyone is interested, especially because I'd like critique from someone who enjoys argumentation, because that's what the essay is all about (though be warned, my academic writing gets EXTREMELY dry).

That's exactly what we need.
Although state indoctrination may be easily standardized, sadly, education is not as linear. :(
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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6/3/2015 12:48:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The whole "No child left behind" (No lobbyist left behind...LOL) needs to be eradicated.

Here's why........

The legislation stipulates that if the kids do not pass a statewide competency exam at the end of the year then their schools may not be eligible for federal financial funding the next fiscal year.

This basically turns the entire school year into a sort of "prep course" for that test. Like a high school kid taking an SAT prep course.

This does NOT teach our kids useful cognitive or problem-solving skills. Or teach them to deal with real-world issues and challenges.

Look at, for example, some sample questions for a middle-schooler in Japan. Google it. You will be amazed at how much more useful their educational priorities and strategy is.

We have been throwing money at education for too long, thanks to their incredibly strong lobby, which has the Democrats in their pocket. But all that money is being spent--well, most of it--in the wrong areas. Areas that try to self-perpetuate the system, and not help the kids prepare for adulthood.
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Oreo222
Posts: 180
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6/3/2015 5:17:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:39:01 AM, Fanny wrote:
If you could "fix" the current US education system, what changes would you make?

I'd make it more like Finland. Theirs is just better.
Caleb.steel
Posts: 10
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6/19/2015 11:48:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. Don't say fix. Fix can mean it's broken. Say improve.
2. Have Subs or Teaching Majors offer free education during summer.
3. Class where kid finishes with resume, brag book, references to use for job/college.
4. Class going over basic laws - don't kill, apply yourself, don't sell illegal drugs
holyzinc
Posts: 9
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6/20/2015 2:19:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 11:48:20 PM, Caleb.steel wrote:
1. Don't say fix. Fix can mean it's broken. Say improve.

I wouldn't say "fix" either. But the system is neither broken or need to be improved. The system simply does what it is designed to do. It was designed during the industrial revolution and was for pumping out workers for industries at that time particularly factories. The system is simply not for the modern world as it has moved on a lot as we can see. The system is outdated and improving it has a negative impact because it is not the correct "medicine" for the world's "disease"(in reality it's economical, social and cultural failures).

What we need is to invent another cure by looking at the information(researches and stats) at hand and the problems in the world. But first we need to see through the bs of the current education's story that we believed in which is like this: The more intelligent you are, the higher you can climb academically and the better the life quality you can have. The real story is more likely to be that we all are curious learners initially whose motivations need to be ignited and talents need to be discovered. Now that is more like "no child left behind". This new version of the story is proved to be true in many disciplines and researches while the current story that we have taken for granted is simply an assumption without any real support.
James28
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7/7/2015 1:05:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
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DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 4:48:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
End the regional funding of schools. The idea that poor areas deserve poor schools is absolutely outrageous.
ax123man
Posts: 317
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7/10/2015 7:15:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/1/2015 7:46:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2015 7:01:09 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I would create a national public school curriculum framework (think Common Core, but run by the federal government) with ONE (finally) national standardized test and more federal educational funding. The TL;DR reason for this is that it brings the lowest performing schools up without disincentivizing the highest performing ones.

That's exactly what we need.
Although state indoctrination may be easily standardized, sadly, education is not as linear. :(

How does a single standardized test improve the lowest performing schools without lowering standards at highest performing schools? People are inherently very unequal in ability. How does choosing a lowest-common-denominator do anything except try to achieve equality of outcome by dumbing down the brightest students?

You cannot force equality to happen. A good example of this occurred during the Russia revolution of 1917. I don't know how anyone can study history and think forcing people to be equal solves anything. Even communists China is learning this. Is your goal education or equality?

What do you all think happens in countries where there is no government and/or taxation involved in education? If you think there are no schools or education happening, you'd be wrong. Just think about it for a second: if you and your neighbors desire education, then why would you think it wouldn't happen without government? Can anyone here tell me what quality education has that makes it different than any other service that would make it disappear if not paid for by taxation? I doubt it, but, I can tell you the quality it has that makes its control extremely valuable to the federal government: it provides a way to propagate propaganda favorable to it's own interests. I can give you an obvious example by way of a thought experiment: how would you feel about going to a school owned and run by, say, Walmart where there were pictures of former CEO's of Walmart on the wall, all the text books were highly favorable toward capitalism, and you sang a song praising the flag of Walmart every day?
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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7/10/2015 8:45:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 5:16:13 AM, katejohn wrote:
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Wow, the essay spammers are on DDO too?
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Greyparrot
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7/10/2015 9:47:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:15:06 AM, ax123man wrote:
At 6/1/2015 7:46:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2015 7:01:09 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I would create a national public school curriculum framework (think Common Core, but run by the federal government) with ONE (finally) national standardized test and more federal educational funding. The TL;DR reason for this is that it brings the lowest performing schools up without disincentivizing the highest performing ones.

That's exactly what we need.
Although state indoctrination may be easily standardized, sadly, education is not as linear. :(


How does a single standardized test improve the lowest performing schools without lowering standards at highest performing schools? People are inherently very unequal in ability. How does choosing a lowest-common-denominator do anything except try to achieve equality of outcome by dumbing down the brightest students?

You cannot force equality to happen. A good example of this occurred during the Russia revolution of 1917. I don't know how anyone can study history and think forcing people to be equal solves anything. Even communists China is learning this. Is your goal education or equality?

What do you all think happens in countries where there is no government and/or taxation involved in education? If you think there are no schools or education happening, you'd be wrong. Just think about it for a second: if you and your neighbors desire education, then why would you think it wouldn't happen without government? Can anyone here tell me what quality education has that makes it different than any other service that would make it disappear if not paid for by taxation? I doubt it, but, I can tell you the quality it has that makes its control extremely valuable to the federal government: it provides a way to propagate propaganda favorable to it's own interests. I can give you an obvious example by way of a thought experiment: how would you feel about going to a school owned and run by, say, Walmart where there were pictures of former CEO's of Walmart on the wall, all the text books were highly favorable toward capitalism, and you sang a song praising the flag of Walmart every day?

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I thought you would have gotten that when I said Education is not linear.
dbatspac
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7/10/2015 10:29:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Shall we take the Finland's educational system as a main reference? I really have a deep interest in finding out how they treat their students in a whole different way! and I may say. compare to USA. No offense :D
SolonKR
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7/10/2015 11:14:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:15:06 AM, ax123man wrote:
At 6/1/2015 7:46:31 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/1/2015 7:01:09 PM, SolonKR wrote:
I would create a national public school curriculum framework (think Common Core, but run by the federal government) with ONE (finally) national standardized test and more federal educational funding. The TL;DR reason for this is that it brings the lowest performing schools up without disincentivizing the highest performing ones.

That's exactly what we need.
Although state indoctrination may be easily standardized, sadly, education is not as linear. :(


How does a single standardized test improve the lowest performing schools without lowering standards at highest performing schools? People are inherently very unequal in ability. How does choosing a lowest-common-denominator do anything except try to achieve equality of outcome by dumbing down the brightest students?

It's actually pretty simple. You set the lowest-common denominator nearly equal to the highest common denominator. Consider Massachusetts. They've been lauded for their educational system. Yet, despite this fact, they adopted Common Core, with their reasoning being a desire to make their educational system more rigorous. You read that correctly. Have a look at the side-by-side comparison documents on the Massachusetts Dept. of Education here: http://www.doe.mass.edu...

I should also clear up what I mean by "curriculum framework". This would mean a set of standards that, when used by a school or district or state to create a school curriculum, would give students the opportunity to learn enough from teachers in order to be proficient on the test. The more privileged would still have the opportunity for their schools to teach above and beyond, just as they do today.

You cannot force equality to happen. A good example of this occurred during the Russia revolution of 1917. I don't know how anyone can study history and think forcing people to be equal solves anything. Even communists China is learning this. Is your goal education or equality?

It's not forcing equality; it's forcing equal opportunity. There's a huge difference.

What do you all think happens in countries where there is no government and/or taxation involved in education? If you think there are no schools or education happening, you'd be wrong. Just think about it for a second: if you and your neighbors desire education, then why would you think it wouldn't happen without government? Can anyone here tell me what quality education has that makes it different than any other service that would make it disappear if not paid for by taxation? I doubt it, but, I can tell you the quality it has that makes its control extremely valuable to the federal government: it provides a way to propagate propaganda favorable to it's own interests. I can give you an obvious example by way of a thought experiment: how would you feel about going to a school owned and run by, say, Walmart where there were pictures of former CEO's of Walmart on the wall, all the text books were highly favorable toward capitalism, and you sang a song praising the flag of Walmart every day?

Ironically, you've given the reason that I trust the government to run education more than private corporations. The federal government is at least somewhat accountable to the people through the somewhat democratic process, while corporations are not.

Also, I didn't get the sarcasm either tbh. It's much harder to perceive it in text. I had thought state indoctrination referred to indoctrination by the individual states rather than the actual federal state.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
ax123man
Posts: 317
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7/11/2015 9:15:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

How does a single standardized test improve the lowest performing schools without lowering standards at highest performing schools? People are inherently very unequal in ability. How does choosing a lowest-common-denominator do anything except try to achieve equality of outcome by dumbing down the brightest students?

It's actually pretty simple. You set the lowest-common denominator nearly equal to the highest common denominator. Consider Massachusetts. They've been lauded for their educational system. Yet, despite this fact, they adopted Common Core, with their reasoning being a desire to make their educational system more rigorous. You read that correctly. Have a look at the side-by-side comparison documents on the Massachusetts Dept. of Education here: http://www.doe.mass.edu...

I should also clear up what I mean by "curriculum framework". This would mean a set of standards that, when used by a school or district or state to create a school curriculum, would give students the opportunity to learn enough from teachers in order to be proficient on the test. The more privileged would still have the opportunity for their schools to teach above and beyond, just as they do today.


I'm not sure I understand. When you say "It's simple, just set the lowest-common denominator nearly equal to the highest common denominator", we must be talking about different things. I'm talking about how challenging an educational program is. There is a vast difference in the level of intelligence of different people. The only way to provide educational opportunities that address those differences is with schools, curriculum and teachers that are at varying levels of difficulty. You can't just set the lowest and highest denominator the same. They AREN'T the same because the students are at different levels of ability. You either ask the lower performing students to try to perform at the higher level, or you lower standards for the highest performing students. There is no magic way to address variances in levels of intelligence and ability.

How does a "set of standards" do anything except standardize something? How does that improve education? You seem to just be waving your hands and, by magic, assuming that you can force-test the necessary traits into people to ensure they will become successful. This is ludicrous. Success, more than ANYTHING, comes from family, culture and internal drivers. It seems to me that the primary result of standardized testing has been to incentivize teachers to cheat in order to meet standards.

Why does the solution to educational "problems" need to come by way of some sort of collective? Do you think that individuals are incapable of addressing problems on their own? Are you aware that there are literally thousands of schools being run across the globe in the poorest of countries by individuals simply choosing to educate themselves? No taxes, no government. None. How do you think people educated themselves prior to federal involvement? People were pretty well educated in the 18th century, considering that they, at that time, still needed to work much longer hours than we do today.

You cannot force equality to happen. A good example of this occurred during the Russia revolution of 1917. I don't know how anyone can study history and think forcing people to be equal solves anything. Even communists China is learning this. Is your goal education or equality?

It's not forcing equality; it's forcing equal opportunity. There's a huge difference.

I'm aware of the difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. What you seem to be missing is that it's not possible to create equal opportunity. How would you address the following factors that affect success far more than any standardized education plan can?

1) family support and involvement (safe environment, reading at home, routine discussions about art, music, science and politics, encouragement, etc)
2) genetics, intelligence
3) cultural differences. For example, the Chinese, despite being discriminated against, are consistently more successful than natives in Indonesia and many other countries.
4) the differences and desires of individual students.
5) the dedication and capabilities of individual teachers
6) the vast differences in the measured outcomes of difference schools

Life isn't fair, you can't create equality of either outcome or opportunity. Pay attention to yourself, friends and family. That's all you can do.


What do you all think happens in countries where there is no government and/or taxation involved in education? If you think there are no schools or education happening, you'd be wrong. Just think about it for a second: if you and your neighbors desire education, then why would you think it wouldn't happen without government? Can anyone here tell me what quality education has that makes it different than any other service that would make it disappear if not paid for by taxation? I doubt it, but, I can tell you the quality it has that makes its control extremely valuable to the federal government: it provides a way to propagate propaganda favorable to it's own interests. I can give you an obvious example by way of a thought experiment: how would you feel about going to a school owned and run by, say, Walmart where there were pictures of former CEO's of Walmart on the wall, all the text books were highly favorable toward capitalism, and you sang a song praising the flag of Walmart every day?

Ironically, you've given the reason that I trust the government to run education more than private corporations. The federal government is at least somewhat accountable to the people through the somewhat democratic process, while corporations are not.


If you think the federal government is accountable in any way, shape or form, you are completely clueless. Where is the accountability for any of this:

1) 9/11
2) Bush, Iraq, Weapons of mass destruction (he gets a good laugh in speeches about this today "Ha ha, still can't find those WMD's")
3) Lincoln's racism
4) Hillary's & Benghazi, not to mention she's just a serial liar
5) Truman bombing the Japanese, because, well I don't know, I guess that Pearl Harbor thing really set him off, and it's all about pay back, right?
6) 2008 bank bailouts, sold to use that we would what, all die miserable deaths otherwise, or something like that. Oops, what we meant was that really rich people would lose a bunch of money. You can also add the Fannie Mae, Freddie mac to the list of unaccountable govt. institutions here.
7) Woodrow Wilson. This clown not only signed the federal reserve act, creating a permanently disfigured form of capitalism, but also drug us into WW1
8) what will it take before liberals admit that the federal government/obamacare has made things worse? I mean Krugman is, at this moment, claiming that Obamacare is a success because ENROLLMENT HAS GONE UP! Yea, I feel healthier already!
9) The IRS scandal of 2013. I'm sure someone, somewhere ?????? was accountable right?

this list could go on forever. Government never fails, it's always just a shortage of funds.

There is nearly zero accountability in public office. You have to sleep with animals or punch your grandmother to lose face. Regarding the private sector, do you live in a cave? Have you ever worked in the private sector? Accountability is quick and decisive and I can (privately) give you examples of this (and I mean as in, within an hour of certain events, an employee told to "please pack your things and leave thru the back door". In the private sector, this is no media or fanfare, but there absolutely is accountability.

Btw, where is the accountability for the failed education system? No, see, we just need more funds, more standards and more collectivism.
SolonKR
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7/11/2015 9:38:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 9:15:13 PM, ax123man wrote:

I like you. Do you want to debate this topic? My ELO's a fair clop lower than yours, but I also haven't really done debates in a long time, so it's not as reflective of my current ability.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
essayace
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7/14/2015 1:37:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Its totally up to Government how much they are serious for education. They should fix particular budget for education and implement experts designed strategies to make education system effective. The proper and experienced management is must other wise all the efforts would be ruined. I am inspired by the education system of UK colleges and universities that they have well organized every thing in proper way.
http://www.essayace.co.uk...
wm1972
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7/14/2015 10:21:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Since children are "judgement proof", I would fix education by holding parent(s) or guardians legally responsible for their child's negative behavior no matter what level of functioning they have-the court system does. Working in education, youth aggression is rising and labels seem to form as a protection for their mental or physical disabilities. When staff for outside collaborative interventions, the rights to privacy, the function levels of the child's disability comes up, and finally money (whose going to pay). Not to mention, education staff can not "blame" the parents for often times "poor parenting". Exhales, the system can be fix but it will take the employees, stakeholders, and the law to hold their balls.

~WM
wm1972
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7/14/2015 10:22:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 11:48:20 PM, Caleb.steel wrote:
1. Don't say fix. Fix can mean it's broken. Say improve.
2. Have Subs or Teaching Majors offer free education during summer.
3. Class where kid finishes with resume, brag book, references to use for job/college.
4. Class going over basic laws - don't kill, apply yourself, don't sell illegal drugs

It is broken, dear.

~WM
courseworkonline
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7/16/2015 12:35:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Fixing the education system is quiet challenging. I have seen education system of UK which i liked most and then US. This system is totally based on the management how much they are sincere with their responsibility. The proper management and rules for students can make it much better.
http://www.courseworkonline.co.uk...
Blade-of-Truth
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7/16/2015 1:02:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:39:01 AM, Fanny wrote:
If you could "fix" the current US education system, what changes would you make?

This:
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Sooner
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7/23/2015 3:22:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Go back to traditional values and quit acting like this new age bs is working. But that will never come to be. The people got lazy and let the government do anything with no accountability. Now they own us. They've began to ignore the Constitution completely and blatently now. And it's not one party, it's both. This country has 2 choices it's gonna face soon. Complete lack of freedom and new age slavery or civil war.
Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
Lee308
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8/27/2015 2:36:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 9:39:01 AM, Fanny wrote:
If you could "fix" the current US education system, what changes would you make?

Sell ALL computers, stop ALL free lunches, and anyone sent to the principles office for a second time is expelled for the rest of the year. Oh, and bring back butt wippins with paddle with the holes in it.
Huntress
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8/29/2015 11:51:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 5/28/2015 2:38:23 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/28/2015 9:39:01 AM, Fanny wrote:
If you could "fix" the current US education system, what changes would you make?

Privatize the education system, but offer school vouchers, allow states to dettermine ciriculum.

I agree completely. Even Elizabeth Warren is in favor of a school voucher system. I just wish she'd speak out about it more.