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Christianity and Islam.

GodSands
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10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well let me get things started.

A interviewer goes to a Muslim and say, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Muslim replies, "I do by visiting Mekkah at least twice in my life, I get into heaven by praying five times per day, and by obeying Allah and the Quran."
The interviewer replies, "Ok sounds fair, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Jew and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Jew replies, "I keep to the 10 commandments and read the Torah everyday, I celebrate all the Jewish festivals, I maintain my hope on the coming Messiah."
The interviewer responds, "Fair enough, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Christian and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Christian replies, "I am a broken man, who is worthy of hell and God's wrath, but by God's Grace I have hope in Jesus Christ in which I trust. No good works of mine will pay the price of my sin, so I fully trust in Jesus Christ."
The interviewer replies, "What! The other two men said that they earn they way into heaven and you are saying that you trust in another?

Do you see the difference there? Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing. We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ! Why? Because we have all fallen short of the glory God and now only God Himself, God Himself can fix are own problem which is...sin.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/17/2010 4:36:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Again, that is a very void view. "Trust?" What kind of trust? A Muslim person can go to Heaven if he does what he can. If he cannot go to Hajj due to e.g. disability, then he does not have to. If he cannot pray because he cannot move his limbs, then he does not have to pray by moving his limbs. Islam never places a burden that someone cannot bear.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/17/2010 4:46:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing.

False. Especially in Taoism where one of the main aspects is "Wu Wei" which means "non-action," "action without action," or "effortless doing."

We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ!

"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- the Buddha

"Oneself, indeed, is one's savior, for what other savior could there be? With oneself well-controlled one obtains a savior difficult to find." -- the Buddha
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/17/2010 4:49:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/17/2010 4:36:44 PM, Mirza wrote:
Again, that is a very void view. "Trust?" What kind of trust? A Muslim person can go to Heaven if he does what he can. If he cannot go to Hajj due to e.g. disability, then he does not have to. If he cannot pray because he cannot move his limbs, then he does not have to pray by moving his limbs. Islam never places a burden that someone cannot bear.

Ok, I understand that and I will go with that comfortably. But what Christianity says is that you can do nothing to earn you way into heaven, nothing! Islam says you can do anything right to get into heaven. If someone were to have sinned just once, and this one person ended up saving millions, heaven would still be sealed off to him and hell would be as wide open as the west is to be east. Why, that sound unfair? No, because God is absolutely righteous and just and good and loving even that if God were to let that man into heaven by what he did, then that man got away will justice. And it is God's character that justice must be met. Just like a judge on earth, God is the same. Does God forgive? Yes, but only because all of man's sin was justified on His Son, Jesus Christ. That is only why, no other reason, that is the only reason.

But in the Muslim faith, Allah hands out mercy without being just, because justice and righteousness is not apart of Allah's natural and character. And you want a good God as a judge, you wouldn't want Hitler into heaven would you? God does not count and weigh up our sin, one sin in other words to God is an unlimited amount, and a millions sins is like one to God. But because of Jesus Christ, we can be justified to the standard of Jesus Christ. And seen at the righteousness and Jesus Christ. This is why are works do nothing, because Jesus Christ has done it all!
GodSands
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10/17/2010 4:52:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/17/2010 4:46:57 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing.

False. Especially in Taoism where one of the main aspects is "Wu Wei" which means "non-action," "action without action," or "effortless doing."

We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ!


"No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path." -- the Buddha

"Oneself, indeed, is one's savior, for what other savior could there be? With oneself well-controlled one obtains a savior difficult to find." -- the Buddha


I am interested, what is the goal of a Buddhist and how can we save ourselves if ourselves have already come undone?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/17/2010 4:56:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 4:49:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Ok, I understand that and I will go with that comfortably. But what Christianity says is that you can do nothing to earn you way into heaven, nothing! Islam says you can do anything right to get into heaven. If someone were to have sinned just once, and this one person ended up saving millions, heaven would still be sealed off to him and hell would be as wide open as the west is to be east. Why, that sound unfair? No, because God is absolutely righteous and just and good and loving even that if God were to let that man into heaven by what he did, then that man got away will justice. And it is God's character that justice must be met. Just like a judge on earth, God is the same. Does God forgive? Yes, but only because all of man's sin was justified on His Son, Jesus Christ. That is only why, no other reason, that is the only reason.

But in the Muslim faith, Allah hands out mercy without being just, because justice and righteousness is not apart of Allah's natural and character. And you want a good God as a judge, you wouldn't want Hitler into heaven would you? God does not count and weigh up our sin, one sin in other words to God is an unlimited amount, and a millions sins is like one to God. But because of Jesus Christ, we can be justified to the standard of Jesus Christ. And seen at the righteousness and Jesus Christ. This is why are works do nothing, because Jesus Christ has done it all!
In Islam, you have to do something. You have a very wrong view of how to achieve success. Can you live without doing something? No. Then how can you be Faithful to God if you do not live? You have to do something to live, and by living you are doing something to be Faithful! Your point is erroneous. If you think that you have nothing to do to believe, then do you wish to stop eating?

We Muslims pray and do other good deeds because that helps us in keeping our Faith strong and strengthening it as much as we can.
GodSands
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10/17/2010 5:27:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/17/2010 4:56:16 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/17/2010 4:49:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Ok, I understand that and I will go with that comfortably. But what Christianity says is that you can do nothing to earn you way into heaven, nothing! Islam says you can do anything right to get into heaven. If someone were to have sinned just once, and this one person ended up saving millions, heaven would still be sealed off to him and hell would be as wide open as the west is to be east. Why, that sound unfair? No, because God is absolutely righteous and just and good and loving even that if God were to let that man into heaven by what he did, then that man got away will justice. And it is God's character that justice must be met. Just like a judge on earth, God is the same. Does God forgive? Yes, but only because all of man's sin was justified on His Son, Jesus Christ. That is only why, no other reason, that is the only reason.

But in the Muslim faith, Allah hands out mercy without being just, because justice and righteousness is not apart of Allah's natural and character. And you want a good God as a judge, you wouldn't want Hitler into heaven would you? God does not count and weigh up our sin, one sin in other words to God is an unlimited amount, and a millions sins is like one to God. But because of Jesus Christ, we can be justified to the standard of Jesus Christ. And seen at the righteousness and Jesus Christ. This is why are works do nothing, because Jesus Christ has done it all!
In Islam, you have to do something. You have a very wrong view of how to achieve success. Can you live without doing something? No. Then how can you be Faithful to God if you do not live? You have to do something to live, and by living you are doing something to be Faithful! Your point is erroneous. If you think that you have nothing to do to believe, then do you wish to stop eating?

We Muslims pray and do other good deeds because that helps us in keeping our Faith strong and strengthening it as much as we can.


Now in 1 John it talks on if you truly love Jesus Christ you will obey what He says, but a religious person will go, "Jesus Christ has paid for it anyway, let's sin all we want and get the cross be more worthy of our sin." They don't speak that, but they say it with their lives.

Doing good is a good thing of course, but that alone doesn't earn a place of perfection, an eternity with God. We are born in sin, so we can do all the good works we want, but it is hopeless. As an analogy, try kicking down a building with your bare foot. If you can kick down the building with your bare foot, you will earn you way into heaven, it won't happen. It cannot be done. Your kicks are your works, nothing will be done to the building, people inside can't even hear you kicking at the walls, and you will become drained and end out hurting your foot. Say Jesus Christ is a digger designed to destroy buildings, however your works have to stop, you simply must give up and trust in this digger that it will ruin the building.

Faith is shown by good works, yes indeed as said in James 2:14. And though faith lies passion, and passion is love. So what I am saying is a true born again Christian will love Jesus Christ, a born again Christian is a new creature, and therefore a born again Christian cannot consistently live in sin. It is impossible, just like it is for someone to not blink when another waves their hand unexpectedly near the persons eyes. Or when you sneeze you cannot held but to keep your eyes closed. In the same way, a born again Christian, a true one cannot consistently live in sin all the rest of his days.

Can a Muslim live in sin like a non Christian? How would you describe a Muslims response to sin?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/17/2010 5:36:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 5:27:54 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 10/17/2010 4:56:16 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/17/2010 4:49:04 PM, GodSands wrote:
Ok, I understand that and I will go with that comfortably. But what Christianity says is that you can do nothing to earn you way into heaven, nothing! Islam says you can do anything right to get into heaven. If someone were to have sinned just once, and this one person ended up saving millions, heaven would still be sealed off to him and hell would be as wide open as the west is to be east. Why, that sound unfair? No, because God is absolutely righteous and just and good and loving even that if God were to let that man into heaven by what he did, then that man got away will justice. And it is God's character that justice must be met. Just like a judge on earth, God is the same. Does God forgive? Yes, but only because all of man's sin was justified on His Son, Jesus Christ. That is only why, no other reason, that is the only reason.

But in the Muslim faith, Allah hands out mercy without being just, because justice and righteousness is not apart of Allah's natural and character. And you want a good God as a judge, you wouldn't want Hitler into heaven would you? God does not count and weigh up our sin, one sin in other words to God is an unlimited amount, and a millions sins is like one to God. But because of Jesus Christ, we can be justified to the standard of Jesus Christ. And seen at the righteousness and Jesus Christ. This is why are works do nothing, because Jesus Christ has done it all!
In Islam, you have to do something. You have a very wrong view of how to achieve success. Can you live without doing something? No. Then how can you be Faithful to God if you do not live? You have to do something to live, and by living you are doing something to be Faithful! Your point is erroneous. If you think that you have nothing to do to believe, then do you wish to stop eating?

We Muslims pray and do other good deeds because that helps us in keeping our Faith strong and strengthening it as much as we can.


Now in 1 John it talks on if you truly love Jesus Christ you will obey what He says, but a religious person will go, "Jesus Christ has paid for it anyway, let's sin all we want and get the cross be more worthy of our sin." They don't speak that, but they say it with their lives.

Doing good is a good thing of course, but that alone doesn't earn a place of perfection, an eternity with God. We are born in sin, so we can do all the good works we want, but it is hopeless. As an analogy, try kicking down a building with your bare foot. If you can kick down the building with your bare foot, you will earn you way into heaven, it won't happen. It cannot be done. Your kicks are your works, nothing will be done to the building, people inside can't even hear you kicking at the walls, and you will become drained and end out hurting your foot. Say Jesus Christ is a digger designed to destroy buildings, however your works have to stop, you simply must give up and trust in this digger that it will ruin the building.

Faith is shown by good works, yes indeed as said in James 2:14. And though faith lies passion, and passion is love. So what I am saying is a true born again Christian will love Jesus Christ, a born again Christian is a new creature, and therefore a born again Christian cannot consistently live in sin. It is impossible, just like it is for someone to not blink when another waves their hand unexpectedly near the persons eyes. Or when you sneeze you cannot held but to keep your eyes closed. In the same way, a born again Christian, a true one cannot consistently live in sin all the rest of his days.
Your are just repeating what you said before, with use of different words.

Can a Muslim live in sin like a non Christian? How would you describe a Muslims response to sin?
No person is free of sin. A Muslim will always do things that are sinful. That is why God is ever-forgiving and forgives people when they repent from sin.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.
beem0r
Posts: 1,155
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10/17/2010 6:10:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.

What does the amount of time spent in hell have to do with a god's glory? Do you think making people suffer through hell is the source of its glory?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/17/2010 6:23:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/17/2010 6:10:04 PM, beem0r wrote:
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.

What does the amount of time spent in hell have to do with a god's glory? Do you think making people suffer through hell is the source of its glory?


God is an infinite God, if you sin against Him, you have sinned against an infinte God therefore your punishment will last forever. If you are sent to prision, you don't decide your time, the judge does. If you chose your time then you wouldn't serve your time. You would be in there for as long as you feel comfortable then you would say that is enough. So God created you, God cannot allow you into heaven if you do not reflect His glory. Therefore justice, God will righteously punish you as a judge forever because you have broken all of His commands.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/18/2010 5:29:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Well let me get things started.

A interviewer goes to a Muslim and say, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Muslim replies, "I do by visiting Mekkah at least twice in my life, I get into heaven by praying five times per day, and by obeying Allah and the Quran."
The interviewer replies, "Ok sounds fair, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Jew and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Jew replies, "I keep to the 10 commandments and read the Torah everyday, I celebrate all the Jewish festivals, I maintain my hope on the coming Messiah."
The interviewer responds, "Fair enough, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Christian and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Christian replies, "I am a broken man, who is worthy of hell and God's wrath, but by God's Grace I have hope in Jesus Christ in which I trust. No good works of mine will pay the price of my sin, so I fully trust in Jesus Christ."
The interviewer replies, "What! The other two men said that they earn they way into heaven and you are saying that you trust in another?

Do you see the difference there? Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing. We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ! Why? Because we have all fallen short of the glory God and now only God Himself, God Himself can fix are own problem which is...sin.

1: This is the wrong forum.
2: Such a doctrine is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
3: Such lazy theology has been behind some of the worst atrocities in history.
4: Such a belief system is inconsistent with an omnipotent omni-benevolent God.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/18/2010 5:50:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/18/2010 5:29:52 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Well let me get things started.

A interviewer goes to a Muslim and say, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Muslim replies, "I do by visiting Mekkah at least twice in my life, I get into heaven by praying five times per day, and by obeying Allah and the Quran."
The interviewer replies, "Ok sounds fair, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Jew and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Jew replies, "I keep to the 10 commandments and read the Torah everyday, I celebrate all the Jewish festivals, I maintain my hope on the coming Messiah."
The interviewer responds, "Fair enough, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Christian and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Christian replies, "I am a broken man, who is worthy of hell and God's wrath, but by God's Grace I have hope in Jesus Christ in which I trust. No good works of mine will pay the price of my sin, so I fully trust in Jesus Christ."
The interviewer replies, "What! The other two men said that they earn they way into heaven and you are saying that you trust in another?

Do you see the difference there? Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing. We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ! Why? Because we have all fallen short of the glory God and now only God Himself, God Himself can fix are own problem which is...sin.

1: This is the wrong forum.
2: Such a doctrine is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
3: Such lazy theology has been behind some of the worst atrocities in history.
4: Such a belief system is inconsistent with an omnipotent omni-benevolent God.


I don't care to much about forums. This doctrine is the doctrine of Christianity, the very doctrine Jesus Christ taught. Lazy theology no, simple theology, yes. Why should it be hard to understand. If a soul must understand it to be saved, shouldn't it be simple, and it is simple to use because we are made out of the image of God.

Didn't explain the fourth point, and you talk about me posting things in the wrong forum.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/18/2010 6:02:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 5:50:17 AM, GodSands wrote:

I don't care to much about forums. This doctrine is the doctrine of Christianity, the very doctrine Jesus Christ taught. Lazy theology no, simple theology, yes. Why should it be hard to understand. If a soul must understand it to be saved, shouldn't it be simple, and it is simple to use because we are made out of the image of God.

Didn't explain the fourth point, and you talk about me posting things in the wrong forum.

It is an insult to this site to post your mumbo-jumbo in the Education forum.

Your doctrine you propose is bankrupt, it means that entry to heaven requires no more effort than donning an imaginary Jesus badge. The Pope facilitates paedophilia but gets into heaven because he has donned the label of 'Christian'. A firefighter might die saving a dozen children but he goes to hell for being an atheist.

As for the last issue, an omnipotent deity should not be beholden to sin. Yours is.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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10/18/2010 6:04:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Well let me get things started.

A interviewer goes to a Muslim and say, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Muslim replies, "I do by visiting Mekkah at least twice in my life, I get into heaven by praying five times per day, and by obeying Allah and the Quran."
The interviewer replies, "Ok sounds fair, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Jew and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Jew replies, "I keep to the 10 commandments and read the Torah everyday, I celebrate all the Jewish festivals, I maintain my hope on the coming Messiah."
The interviewer responds, "Fair enough, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Christian and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Christian replies, "I am a broken man, who is worthy of hell and God's wrath, but by God's Grace I have hope in Jesus Christ in which I trust. No good works of mine will pay the price of my sin, so I fully trust in Jesus Christ."
The interviewer replies, "What! The other two men said that they earn they way into heaven and you are saying that you trust in another?

Do you see the difference there? Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing. We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ! Why? Because we have all fallen short of the glory God and now only God Himself, God Himself can fix are own problem which is...sin.

So basically,
How can you go to heaven?

By committing sins and asking for forgiveness. You do realize that all are basically the same mechanisms. The hindus going to temples is not, in any way, mandatory. And nowhere is it written that without going to temples, one cannot achieve heaven. In fact, Hinduism lays stress on working towards achieving heaven, not merely asking for forgiveness after committing a sin.
GodSands
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10/18/2010 6:19:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/18/2010 6:02:17 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/18/2010 5:50:17 AM, GodSands wrote:

I don't care to much about forums. This doctrine is the doctrine of Christianity, the very doctrine Jesus Christ taught. Lazy theology no, simple theology, yes. Why should it be hard to understand. If a soul must understand it to be saved, shouldn't it be simple, and it is simple to use because we are made out of the image of God.

Didn't explain the fourth point, and you talk about me posting things in the wrong forum.

It is an insult to this site to post your mumbo-jumbo in the Education forum.

Your doctrine you propose is bankrupt, it means that entry to heaven requires no more effort than donning an imaginary Jesus badge. The Pope facilitates paedophilia but gets into heaven because he has donned the label of 'Christian'. A firefighter might die saving a dozen children but he goes to hell for being an atheist.

As for the last issue, an omnipotent deity should not be beholden to sin. Yours is.


My mind set is in total understanding with the Gospel, in that I mean I can see no problem with it.

This is what I am saying, if you are a Christian, a true one, you will rely totally on Jesus Christ to save. But your love will go out to Him, therefore instead of just using Jesus Christ like a ticket to get into heaven you will treat Jesus Christ like a person, like God as He truly is. Therefore you will do good to others and you will obey the law if you truly are saved. But I am not saying a Christian cannot or will not sin. But that sin has been atoned for by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is not a work salvation, but what I am saying is, if you are saved you will want to do good things because you have seen a small part of God's beauty. When I was saved, I saw a glimps of God's beauty and from there on I have not wanted anything else of this world, although I have sinned many times, but my nature has changed for Christ.

We are saved purly through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ took the wrath of God from us, but if you do not take up faith in Jesus Christ, Christ Himself will come down on you when you are judged.

So a unconverted self believing person who believes he or she is saved will treat Jesus Christ like a ticket into heaven instead of a person.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/18/2010 8:48:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 6:23:39 PM, GodSands wrote:
: At 10/17/2010 6:10:04 PM, beem0r wrote:
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.

What does the amount of time spent in hell have to do with a god's glory? Do you think making people suffer through hell is the source of its glory?


God is an infinite God, if you sin against Him, you have sinned against an infinte God therefore your punishment will last forever. If you are sent to prision, you don't decide your time, the judge does. If you chose your time then you wouldn't serve your time. You would be in there for as long as you feel comfortable then you would say that is enough. So God created you, God cannot allow you into heaven if you do not reflect His glory. Therefore justice, God will righteously punish you as a judge forever because you have broken all of His commands.

Do you want to debate this sometime in the future?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/18/2010 12:50:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 4:27:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
Well let me get things started.

A interviewer goes to a Muslim and say, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Muslim replies, "I do by visiting Mekkah at least twice in my life, I get into heaven by praying five times per day, and by obeying Allah and the Quran."
The interviewer replies, "Ok sounds fair, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Jew and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Jew replies, "I keep to the 10 commandments and read the Torah everyday, I celebrate all the Jewish festivals, I maintain my hope on the coming Messiah."
The interviewer responds, "Fair enough, you earn you way into heaven."

The interviewer moves onto the Christian and asks, "How do you get into heaven?"
The Christian replies, "I am a broken man, who is worthy of hell and God's wrath, but by God's Grace I have hope in Jesus Christ in which I trust. No good works of mine will pay the price of my sin, so I fully trust in Jesus Christ."
The interviewer replies, "What! The other two men said that they earn they way into heaven and you are saying that you trust in another?

Do you see the difference there? Same goes for Buddhism, and Hinduism and every other world faith. They all consist of man doing, doing, doing and more doing. We ought to stop doing for one moment and start trusting, trusting in the only one that can save, Jesus Christ! Why? Because we have all fallen short of the glory God and now only God Himself, God Himself can fix are own problem which is...sin.

Godsands, can a person be Hell bound for

Refusing Baptism?

How about refusing to help someone that is in dire need?

Refusing to admit their sins and ask for forgiveness?

St. James says it very very clear, it is Faith AND Works. Either one alone is dead.

You can't earn your way to Heaven without Faith, it's impossible.

You can't only believe and never do what was asked of you, it's impossible.

It is also written that the demons believe in Jesus Christ, they know He is the Son of God. Do you expect them to go to Heaven also?

If not why? Is it because they have no Works?

I believe Faith and Works have been twisted to mean that someone believes they can be good enough to get into Heaven, that is NOT what it means at all. I would like to talk to you about this more. I look forward to it.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/19/2010 6:55:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.
No, you do not go to Hell to cleanse your sins. Hell is in the Afterlife, after al-Qiyamah (Day of Judgment) to those who have committed great sins without asking for forgiveness or feeling shame about them. Hell will last forever, but there will be different levels for different sinners, depending on the greatness of their sins. The video is a recitation of the Qur'anic chapter called al-Qiyamah, which should also answer your questions.
Mirza
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10/19/2010 7:02:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/17/2010 6:10:04 PM, beem0r wrote:
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.

What does the amount of time spent in hell have to do with a god's glory? Do you think making people suffer through hell is the source of its glory?
They suffer from justice, well-deserved one.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/19/2010 11:01:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/19/2010 7:02:21 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/17/2010 6:10:04 PM, beem0r wrote:
At 10/17/2010 5:43:11 PM, GodSands wrote:
How does Allah forgive if I am a criminal, do I go to hell to pay for my sin? Is hell an amount of time or forever? Because if forever then God is infinite in glory, if for an amount of time God is finite in glory. What does Allah use to pay for our sin, because if nothing then I get into heave unjustified.

What does the amount of time spent in hell have to do with a god's glory? Do you think making people suffer through hell is the source of its glory?
They suffer from justice, well-deserved one.


People say Christianity is similiar to Islam, but I have learnt the Christianity is nothing alike.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/19/2010 11:17:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 11:01:15 AM, GodSands wrote:
People say Christianity is similiar to Islam, but I have learnt the Christianity is nothing alike.
That is false. They are very different in many areas, but they agree on:

1. Oneness of God
2. Stories of Prophets
3. Morality

This is among other things, too.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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10/19/2010 1:22:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 10/19/2010 11:17:37 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/19/2010 11:01:15 AM, GodSands wrote:
People say Christianity is similiar to Islam, but I have learnt the Christianity is nothing alike.
That is false. They are very different in many areas, but they agree on:

1. Oneness of God
2. Stories of Prophets
3. Morality

This is among other things, too.


Christianity is similiar theologically speaking, but practically speaking, not at all.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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10/19/2010 4:41:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/18/2010 8:48:26 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/17/2010 6:23:39 PM, GodSands wrote:
God is an infinite God, if you sin against Him, you have sinned against an infinte God therefore your punishment will last forever. If you are sent to prision, you don't decide your time, the judge does. If you chose your time then you wouldn't serve your time. You would be in there for as long as you feel comfortable then you would say that is enough. So God created you, God cannot allow you into heaven if you do not reflect His glory. Therefore justice, God will righteously punish you as a judge forever because you have broken all of His commands.

Do you want to debate this sometime in the future?

Lol @ challenging GodSands to a debate.

Seriously though, you're a universalist?
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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10/19/2010 7:06:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 5:07:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
nah, i'm an inclusivist and a annihilationist. :p

Would you mind elaborating on that first part? To what extent does that term reach?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2010 8:05:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/19/2010 7:06:16 PM, Denote wrote:
At 10/19/2010 5:07:56 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
nah, i'm an inclusivist and a annihilationist. :p

Would you mind elaborating on that first part? To what extent does that term reach?

Hmm, ok. I mean that I'm a soteriological inclusivist as compared to soteriological exclusivists and universalists. I don't mean inclusivist in the sense of thinking other religions are true (like pluralists) or that all religions are different paths to God, just to make it clear. Basically, all three positions hold that the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ but the scope of those who are saved varies. Exclusivsm holds that only people who are cognitively aware of Jesus and believe in him are saved. I don't find that very plausible. On my position it's possible to be saved through Jesus without being aware of him. Think the people in the OT for instance - by all accounts they didn't know who Jesus was - I think fairly absurd to say some of them weren't saved. Not to mention babies who die and those who have never heard of Jesus before they die. Note I said "possible" - I didn't say that all people who haven't heard of Jesus will be saved as we have no idea how a person will react to the general or special revelation given to them it doesn't remove the need for evangelism (this is a common objection against inclusivism). To paraphrase theologian Randal Rauser I can't say with any certainty that the Muslim woman who, in the Rwanda genocide, saved Tutsis is in hell just because she presumably didn't believe Jesus was God while the so called Christians around her butchered indiscriminately and got a free "get into heaven card" for believing the right propositions. That and I think there's some biblical support of this position. With universalists they believe everybody is eventually saved. I don't think that's the case either although I don't believe hell to be eternal. Hope that helped.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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10/19/2010 8:07:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sorry for the wall of text...I did that really fast from my iPod and forgot to put it in paragraphs.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!